These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Fleet hangars and changes to various settings

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-10-19 18:35:45 UTC
LethalGeek wrote:
It's like the people here complaining about losing their capital divisions have never noticed the Search function in the universal Inventory or that they can make custom filters they can toggle at will.

Or they can be lazy whiners instead of learning how to do these things, whatever.



It's like people don't realize you may have several of the same item(s) you want separated or want to have items orgznized because they don't want to redo their math, fittings, dragging and dropping x number of item etc.

How divisions are used these days by many players:

Moving items between many stations to setup sell orders. division(s) separated by station drop off point.
Picking up items between many stations to grab items purchased (and then moved) separated by pick up locations
Setting up manufacturing jobs. (x amount of specific minerals for a job, or for a job at a specific station)
Fueling POS's and don't want to redo your math at every site.
Setup POCO's for factory planets
Move items for mulitpule players
Move items for specific ship fittings (saves so much time)

The search and filter in the inv system is great, if you are trying to find 1 item. Its great for SEARCHING, and sorting for a specific item or item type but not for separating items of the same type that you are say moving to several different installations. If I need to for example drop off 3200 of 16 P1 types across 10 planets I can easily do this 2 times in station with the current system. With the new system I would have to do this 2 times (once in station, once at POCO). The inventory system wont fix this in any way.
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#42 - 2012-10-19 18:42:26 UTC
CCP, what I think we'd all REALLY like to see is a customizable hanger layout for ships with an overall max m3 limit.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-10-19 18:45:09 UTC
Iniquita wrote:
LethalGeek wrote:
It's like the people here complaining about losing their capital divisions have never noticed the Search function in the universal Inventory or that they can make custom filters they can toggle at will.

Or they can be lazy whiners instead of learning how to do these things, whatever.



It's more than just sorting. Divisions gave a way to restrict access to certain items as without the roles to see certain divisions you could not take from them either.



So spot on.

Another perfect example (using existing system) if you are running an alliance mining op for example you could have mining crystals in 1 division where your corp members could access them, so that you are just supplying YOUR corp mining crystals, while fleet members need to supply their own.

With the new system you will have to do EXACTLY what you have to do now to limit peoples access to specific people now (or if a person doesn't have access to the division), which will be having nothing of value in the fleet bays, and jetcanning mining crystals when a player asks for them.

The divisions should stay, with each division having their own security setting (config button on each tab, simular to how the inventory tab functions).

Each division should be able to have the following options:

  • Allow corp give
  • Allow corp take
  • Allow alliance give
  • Allow alliance take
  • Allow fleet give
  • Allow fleet take
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-10-19 18:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
How about "Personal Hangar" and "Fleet Hangar" who share a size.

"Allow Access to Fleet Hangar"
"Allow Access to Fleet SMB"

The rest sounds awesome and thanks for finally tackling this.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Meleene Isenplox
Rudeltaktik
#45 - 2012-10-19 19:18:15 UTC
I agree with all the opinions that:

1. SMA and CHA access should be separate options.
2. Keep divisions!

Whoever okay'd these changes from the CSM has never owned and operated a supercapital class ship. But feel free to keep pissing off people who have been playing your game for years ccp.
Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#46 - 2012-10-19 19:47:15 UTC
Just thinking about kill mails here... as far as the API goes, will this new "Feet Hangar" have a completely new ID or will it assume the same ID that the Corp. Hangar currently has?
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#47 - 2012-10-19 19:48:19 UTC
LethalGeek wrote:
Sorry I didn't realize a bunch of you were insane and just lugging around valuable equipment in capital hangers 24/7 for whatever reason instead of either keeping them locked away in stations/POS hangers or actively using them. Guess I'm a weirdo and put my toys away when I'm not using them?



I guess you don't fly a supercarrier or a titan.

You should try, I'm fairly sure (>99%) that you will learn to appreciate having those hangar divisions then...
Alexila Quant
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#48 - 2012-10-19 22:02:20 UTC
Fleet hangars? Who asked for this?

This is a bad change. How are we supposed to organize the junk we are jumping back and forth for corp/alliance members in carriers? Orca pilots won't be able to organize ore in free for all mining ops anymore either. Please allow us to CHOOSE if we want the folders merged or not on a case by case basis. This does not work at all for anyone who does logistics runs in a carrier or Orca, at the very best it requires considerably more effort to sort out each person's stuff.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#49 - 2012-10-20 01:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Utremi Fasolasi
Styth spiting wrote:
" These fleet hangars have no divisions and corp roles are irrelevant."

Wait, so now there is no way to sort/order items between different divisions? Seriously this is 1/2 the reason the corp hangers on the Orca were so great, since there has yet to be any type of container of a descent size to use for this. This just seems like a ridiculous change.

So now when trying to find mining crystals in the orca, or sorting ship fittings (one division for ammo, crystals, drones, one for mods, 1 for ore, etc) we will be stuck with one large blog crap view?



Let me introduce you to the Filters feature of the Unified Inventory. It is pretty awesome you should check it out. And I think it takes care of this.

EDIT: Never mind I see now someone else beat me to this suggestion.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2012-10-20 01:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Sorry for the late reply - I was not in the office this afternoon.

Trying to cover the most asked questions / complaints:


  • Divisions: I am afraid that it would be very difficult to bring them back. I will discuss on Monday with the team, if we could find any good alternatives.
  • "too many people" issue/feature - I will investigate this in the following days, but I don't think there has been any changes made to this.
  • Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ.
  • Forcefield password: They are not being transferred to other pilots. We are currently changing the way of how this is being enforced (Probably by storing the password on the character and not on the ship).
  • Separate access options for SMB and Fleet hangar: I will discuss this on Monday with the team.
  • "Will we be able to drop items *into* a fleet hangar if the box isn't checked?" - No, you will be unable to open the fleet hangar.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#51 - 2012-10-20 01:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
CCP Habakuk wrote:


  • Divisions: I am afraid that it would be very difficult to bring them back. I will discuss on Monday with the team, if we could find any good alternatives.


Mate, this was a wonderful feature that a lot of capital and super capital pilots used. Why did Team Gridlock have to go and gut it?
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-10-20 02:06:58 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:


:words:

  • "Will we be able to drop items *into* a fleet hangar if the box isn't checked?" - No, you will be unable to open the fleet hangar.
    • [/list]


    is there a major technical reason for this ? if not what's the design decision behind it ? i always liked the ability to drop stuff in corp hangars or member hangars i can't access
    Lors Dornick
    Kallisti Industries
    #53 - 2012-10-20 03:16:30 UTC
    Kari Juptris wrote:
    CCP Habakuk wrote:


    • Divisions: I am afraid that it would be very difficult to bring them back. I will discuss on Monday with the team, if we could find any good alternatives.


    Mate, this was a wonderful feature that a lot of capital and super capital pilots used. Why did Team Gridlock have to go and gut it?


    Even as I love and use the divisions daily I can guess that a clue on why they want to remove them is related to the teams name.

    It's most likely related to performance.

    CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
    Alli Othman
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #54 - 2012-10-20 04:42:43 UTC
    CCP Habakuk wrote:

    Divisions: I am afraid that it would be very difficult to bring them back. I will discuss on Monday with the team, if we could find any good alternatives.

    This is really a key feature of the corp hangars that needs to be retained- otherwise most will probably just no longer allow access and any work put into this will go unappreciated. Difficult, but necessary as both PVP and PVAsteroid are quite unhappy with this particular change.

    Quote:
    Forcefield password: They are not being transferred to other pilots. We are currently changing the way of how this is being enforced (Probably by storing the password on the character and not on the ship).

    Great for all of the reasons mentioned by others.

    Quote:
    Separate access options for SMB and Fleet hangar: I will discuss this on Monday with the team.

    This is another must- especially if you don't bring divisions back. As others have said- one may want to give out some rifters or a hictor, but not wish to have people snatching up their fuel, pimp modules, etc...

    Quote:
    "Will we be able to drop items *into* a fleet hangar if the box isn't checked?" - No, you will be unable to open the fleet hangar.

    This is less of an issue, but more of a case of "why are you taking away user functionality without a good justification?" So why are some of these functionalities being removed when they're obviously used and enjoyed by those that will be affected? Updating the access controls is a positive, but not at the expense of current functionality.
    Scrapyard Bob
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #55 - 2012-10-20 05:31:33 UTC
    CCP Habakuk wrote:

    * "Will we be able to drop items *into* a fleet hangar if the box isn't checked?" - No, you will be unable to open the fleet hangar.


    I think there is room here for a middle ground on the fleet hangar by giving it 4 possibilities:

    - No fleet access to the bay
    - Allow deposits by fleet
    - Allow fleet item take
    - Allow fleet container take

    Which would make it work very similar to existing corp hangar mechanics. You would gain the ability to choose whether to allow everything inside to be accessible, or you could then use secure audit containers to lock away the expensive things while still putting items out on the hangar floor for fleet members to take.
    Grey Stormshadow
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #56 - 2012-10-20 05:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
    I don't know much about this except that fleet members should always be able to drop stuff to hangars without any passwords or extra permissions. Taking from or just simply viewing the hangars is the thing what needs some configuration.

    If basic deposit access is missing you will get plenty of complaints from bear corps. They're not willing to give all their members full access to any bays and/or configure such permissions to each individual separately. Hence they usually choose to allow access to selected few and/or "give" only deposit access.

    ...Also for above reason - if new system doesn't provide any link to limit access with corp roles, there should be at least some way to use secure containers to prevent this new feature having only one on/off access level switch which is same for corps 1 day old junior and 3 year veteran. Obviously the 1st one can't be trusted much and rest of the fleet shouldn't be the one who is taking the fall from it.

    ...and yes - obviously ship hangar and item hangar need separate permissions. That should be clear without even mentioning.

    edit:

    ...and to clarify I must add that giving container access only to the ships pilot did not fix the problem with access level switch having only on/off buttons. You barely gave the pilot the change to hide his own stuff away, but he certainly doesn't want to micro manage what is in hangar floor at any given time or to check who is flying next to his ship while thing "A or B" is up for grabs. Shortly put: the ships pilot is not a sorting/vending machine what you use to define if random corp member has access to item and what is the best way to hand it to him

    Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

    Play with the best - die like the rest
    Antir
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #57 - 2012-10-20 08:35:23 UTC
    Some people have suggested using cans to replace divisions in the fleet hangar, on tranquility a can cannot be used when it is in a corp hangar in space. On duality I took1 of every can I could find, put them in my fleet hangar and undocked my carrier http://i.imgur.com/Lx3Xk.jpg.

    I was able to drag the fuel and mods that I had in my fleet hangar into these cans but there is no way to get the stuff back out as long as the cans are in the fleet hangar. When dragged into the cargohold the can becomes accessible http://i.imgur.com/GVN71.jpg.

    The cans in the fleet hangar are alson not accessible when the ship is docked they need to be move elsewhere to be opened. This is not a replacement for hangar divisions and is pretty much useless as a security feature as cans are just as easily stolen as modules http://i.imgur.com/VhHdg.jpg..
    Lucas Quaan
    DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
    TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
    #58 - 2012-10-20 09:21:06 UTC
    Alli Othman wrote:
    CCP Habakuk wrote:

    Divisions: I am afraid that it would be very difficult to bring them back. I will discuss on Monday with the team, if we could find any good alternatives.

    This is really a key feature of the corp hangars that needs to be retained- otherwise most will probably just no longer allow access and any work put into this will go unappreciated. Difficult, but necessary as both PVP and PVAsteroid are quite unhappy with this particular change.

    A million times this.
    Lucas Quaan
    DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
    TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
    #59 - 2012-10-20 09:23:28 UTC
    CCP Habakuk wrote:
    We discussed these changes with the CSM

    Incoming Grath-rage.
    Bloodpetal
    Tir Capital Management Group
    #60 - 2012-10-20 13:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
    I have to throw my pitch in at the lack of ANY division type. Hell, it doesn't have to be 7 divisions. Make it two divisions.

    Make it 2 fleet hangars for all I care. The issue is simple.

    You carry a LOT OF CRAP in these things. And even for Miners, you throw crystals into one folder, and crap into the other. The filters don't really do a good job of it at all.

    What you guys NEED to be doing is allowing us to create "Folders" anyways for ALL our hangars that we can 'soft' organize things without needing containers. I believe you are somewhat doing this for the Ship Hangars in station - under ship types or something, but you need to let us do that for ourselves under our own criteria.

    Anyways - we carry a lot of **** in our carriers. Sometimes, it's that we want to keep OUR stuff separate from FLEET stuff, or that we are doing Logistics, and we are moving a **** ton of stuff half way across the galaxy, and need to remember WHOSE **** belongs to who.

    Whatever.

    I'm just blown away that you didn't consider the fact that people STEAL THINGS IN EVE as it is, and you're giving us no granularity in controlling that. How would you prefer access to your bank account came in only one flavor? "Take and deposit"?

    Well, I'm sure you'd feel REAL HAPPY about that.

    Where I am.