Ships & Modules

With super capitals getting nerfed and blasters being looked at this could end up being an interesting winter expansion.

While we are looking at the balance of ships I want to make a serious suggestion that would replace any need for "content" and seriously bring back some subs.


EQUALITY AMONG THE T1 TIERS!!!

You just instantly created 20 more viable ships and countless new things to do with them.

With T2 you had groups like the tank AF, the gank AF, the cloaky recon, the damage recon, etc.


Kestrels and stabbers and the ferox want to actually see some real use.

I have a dream, that one day little condors and little breachers will have a place along side rifters and merlins.

Could you maybe explain a bit more clearly what you mean?

The lower tier ships seem to have a purpose at the moment.

They are for new starters, and they are the start of the cost vs performance curve.

They cost very little and perform badly.

I'd want to keep my Dominix. Thank you very much.

On the con side, making these ships decent would mean you could no longer get fights from risk-averse pvpers by flying subpar ships.

But ehhh probably worth it.

So what you're suggesting is:
Tier 1 ships should be given a specialized "role"?
Make them "equal" to the reast of the T1 ships, but yet different because they have a different inteded "role" to fill?

How much should these new "specific role ships" cost?

If a tier 1 ship is just as good as a tier 2 or tier 3, then they should all cost about the same. (and have the same skill requirements to fly)

Interesting idea, but I don't like it.

What will low skill/isk pilots fly?

The whole point of having different tiers is for progression.

There NEEDS to be a cheap, low skill req. ship in each category.
If it's cheap and requires low-skills, it has to be less effective.
Otherwise everybody would fly the cheap, but just as good ship, and the rest would not get used as much.
This already happens a lot with the T2 frigs and cruisers.

I can see how it would give the Veterans more options, but you're forgeting about the newer players, who are still progressing.

Personally I think it would be better if there were more T2, and faction (pirate too), BC and up.

This way Veterans could progress form thier chosen tier-level ship into a T2/faction version.
I know this already exists, but not for tier 3 BSs and there are no faction BCs etc.

Basically I want a Pirate tier 3 BS and a T2, tier 3 BS.
Like a Serpentis Hyperion or a T2 BS that can actually be used for PVP.
MORE PROGRESSION, not less!

I beg to differ, pricing is VERY important for newbies up to several months when they can run L4's on their own. People still use cheaper ships, and some of them like the Cyclone are pretty underrated as it is.

I beg to differ with prejudice.

The only thing cost has ever determined is the HULL SIZE/TECH LEVEL. I have never met some one who said they couldn't afford a moa so they bought a caracal. Or couldn't afford a drake so they went ferox. Or scorp instead of raven.


Leveling out the tiers for each hull will instantly add actually useful ships and completely change eve as we know it. We will all be thrown instantly into the lust of building new ships and unique designs with a ton of new, useful hulls.

They don't even have to be role based changes, that was just an example of one route to take. You put another mid slot or speed on the kestrel and *poof* it is a frigate to be worried about. Add grid or speed to the caracal and *poof*. Mid slot and EHP to the ferox. Just some EHP or grid for the raven, etc. (Am using caldari as the example given the amount of carebears in the thread already)

Yes, yes and god yes.

Cyclones with 6 Guns and 6 Mids.
Omen with enough Power Grid to fit out the lowest tier T2 Pulses an MWD and a 800mm Plate w/o a power rig.
T1 Logi's that you can use in PvP.
Thorax that can fit a set of Ions a MWD and a 800mm Plate
Condor's and Slashers that are more then Shuttles with Big Holds.
Punisher, Maller, Prophecy with a Dmg Bonus.
Stabber with 5 Highs, 5 Turret HP's, a 25m2 DB and 4 lows/mids.
A Caracal which can Brawl with HAM's.

Just a touch of Re-balance opens up so many cool new fits and can bring Lol Ships back to the fold.

"With Prejudice" is exactly right.
You do know what that means right?

You obviously don't understand what we are trying to tell you.
This will probably be a futile effort to help you understand as I can tell you posses very little empathy.

Cheap ships are NEEDED for those players who have RL responsibilities and obligations. For those of you who have plenty of leisure time to play EVE 2-5 hours (or whatever) per day, cost is of very little consequence. You can rake-in so much ISK, that the difference between 100mil and 300mil means a couple of days (if that).

There ARE however those players who can only afford 2-4 hours a WEEK of play time because they have a full-time job, kids, etc.

I am one of those players.
For someone like me, the difference between 100mil and 300mil was more-like 6 months. (Keep in mind I hadn't gotten to lvl4s yet.)
It took me almost a YEAR of playing to get into my first BS. (I was dumb, and wouldn't settle for the Dominix because it was just too ugly, so I saved-up until I could afford a Mega.)
Getting into that first BS was a HUGE turning point in my EVE carreer. Now that I can run 2-3 lvl4s once or twice a week, the price difference is rather moot, BUT for a new player, who doesn't have that much time, the price difference it HUGE.

Do you understand now why a cheap tier in each progression is essential?
You will probably counter something to the effect that;
"Players like you represent a tiny fraction of the EVE player-base, I don't care about you."
I think there are actually quite a few of players like me out there, and coming-up in the ranks we NEED those cheaper ships.

Get-out of your own shoes for a minute. Is allowing us players who don't have much time to dedicate to EVE this small concession such a hardship for you?

If you want further options for progression, petition for more ADVANCED ships. Don't take-away the cheap, entry-level ships.
We all know you would get bored with them after a couple of months anyway.

Wow! No need for the insults.

Why on earth would you assume I don't know the deffinition of disparity?

I didn't say the difference between 100mil and 300mil applied to any particular ships.
Maybe you would like to re-read my post?

I was just using that as a general example to make a point.

The fact remains,
200m to a frequent player (running lvl4 missions, assuming 20mil/hour for argument's sake) = roughly 10 hours = 2-4 days (2.5-5 hours a day).

200m to an player who doesn't play as often = roughly 10 hours (assuming they are already running lvl4s efficiently) = 14-28 days (2.5-5 hours a week).

Hmmm... My dictionary doesn't seem to have a "hostility version"...
No matter what movie you heard it in, or context you refer to "with prejudice" always carries the same general definition.
It means you will do (or think) whatever you're planning on doing (or thinking), and you wont entertain any arguments to the contrary.
I know it sounds cool to say, but it basically means that you are intentionally planning on being ingnorant, biased, and unwilling to be dissuaded no matter what arguments are presented.

Which is very evident in your above post...

Anyways, to avoid pointless argument about un-related issues, I will get to the point.

Using your provided ship-price examples...
Oops! It seems you "accidentally" left-out the lower-tier frigs which are MUCH cheaper. (That was the whole point of the debate right?)
Seems you also left-out the first couple tiers of Cruisers, and the top tier of BS. (Biased info much?)
Oh well, I'll work with what you gave me anyways.

Caracal 3.8 mil
Moa 6.3 mil
Difference 2.5 mil

If you're a new player plugging-away at lvl 1s and 2s in your frig or destroyer trying to get into a cruiser, that's a pretty big difference.
2.5 mil at 50k-200k isk/hour (lvl1s and 2s) would be: 20 hours of play-time (give or take based on estimations).
To a frequent player (3 hours a day) 20 hours is 4-5 days.
For someone who plays once or twice a week that's 4-5 weeks of playing.
If the Caracal was "just as good" as the Moa, it would cost about the same. If they cost about the same, it would mean about an extra month for a starting player to get into a cruiser.

The entire time disparity is multiplied as the player progresses towards the big ships.

At least with the "entry level" ships, someone who doesn't play a bunch can get into that next class of ship (and subsequently the next level of missions) without spending weeks extra plugging-away in a lower-class ship because the gap from class to class is too big.

So while the price difference might seem trivial to frequent players (a week or two), it means months and months of difference to people that can't play very often.

That is exactly WHY CCP has cheap, tier 1 ships.