Player Features and Ideas Discussion

yes, it is highly encouraged u train various things. to have a single weapon system that can do everything is overpowered. it sucks that there is a weapon system that is the be all and end all of long range combat and can still do well at close ranges. This is why the nerf is a good thing.



its a pay-to-play game, like many mmorpgs. if u can make enough isk each month u can pay in plexes, but just because u dnt want to pay doesn't mean they're going to allow u to have an uber good-at-everything ship and weapons combo. if my thinking is right, ur ideals are in-congruent to CCP's and those like urself are going to see a lot of disappointments.

if i'm completely honest, i'd be happy to see other players like urself leave and never come back. eve is a hard game that changes all the time and u cant whine when it (or CCP) makes things difficult for u. u either leave or htfu and adapt because by-god i dont want to play along side whiners like urself and i don't want to fight against u either as ur whining will just irritate me. there is absolutely nothing stopping u from skilling into another race if u think caldari have it so hard.

And don't ask for ur skill points back for crying out loud. its ridiculous that ppl believe they have the remotest chance of getting them back, it just makes u look like such a fool when u do. They'll only be reimbursed if they HML's or caldari are removed from the game entirely (like the learning skills were).

anyways, noemi was getting grief about asking for KB's...i was one of the first to call him/her to show their own and they did. i said i was impressed that they pew at all because they were such an HML fanboy but tried to appear particularly knowledgeable about pvp. tbh noemi, ur about my standard with the vast majority of it being station games in high sec, but i think i have a bit more xp in low, null and WH's.

just setting records straight there^

noemi (i know alot of ppl have been doom saying but i feel like ur the only one staying here long enough to reply to), u act like this nerf is the worst thing ever, before u even seen what it will be like on the test server. but when ppl try to remind u of the buffs u always say 'we'll see what they're like before we make any decisions'. u cant be that blind to ur own inconsistencies.

Everything will be run through the mill on the test servers, its what they are for. if this nerf is as ridiculous as some ppl say it will be recognised.

one last thing, 500mil (i'm poor) says no protest. any takers?

make that dinner for two

I'm not seeing much evidence that many are taking advantage of their destructibility, at least in PvP. Also the Ewar changes aren't coming this winter.

If you were to compare training times of ALL the weapons in a class, from frigate to BS, in both long and short range versions, plus specializations, you would notice that training missiles is actually significantly longer. Training Small Projectile to 5, and tha associated specs to 1, gives you both the T2 small autocannons AND the T2 small rails. This pattern continues up the line (though the specialization requirement goes up to four as you progress).

Small Projectile 5
-Sm AC Spec 4
- Sm Arty Spec 4
Medium Projectile 5
-Med AC 4
-Med Arty 4
Large Projectile 5
-Lg AC Spec 4
-Lg Arty Spec 4


To aquire the same complete weapons range, long and short range weapons in every class from frigate to BS, using missiles, would require you to train:

Rockets 5
-Rocket Spec 4
Light Missiles 5
-Light Missile Spec 4
Heavy Missile 5
-Heavy Missile Spec 4
Heavy Assault Missile 5
-Heavy Assault Missile Spec 4
Torpedo 5
-Torpedo Spec 4
Cruise Missile 5
-Cruise Missile Spec 4

See the difference? The reason it APPEARS shorter is because many people skip over the weapons they are uninterested in. If, however, they want to fly missile ships of every class, and have the ability to fit both long and short range weapons, they need to train all them all.

Yeah and there is more than nullsec in the game. Noone is firewalling missiles in lowsec smaller engagements that I've seen. Besides firewalls are not like an automatic missile negator anyway.

Range nerf is not enough. HMs have too much damage compared to other long range weapons. It's been shown a hundred times already probably itt. Keep whining in vain though.

But you DID see it prior to the Hybrid buff.

The Gallente might have some cause for complaint, the same could be said for the Amarr (I have certainly seen quite a few comments from Amarr players on these forums).



I have a great deal of respect for you. Your comments in the other winter update threads demostrate an amazing depth of knowlege about the game -- I am a bit jealous to be honest. But respectfully, I think you are missing the boat here in this thread.

You are talking about Heavy Missiles and the Drake, and really everything you have to say about them is either subjectively or objectively correct. But the problem here is not Heavy missiles. The problem is the OTHER Caldari ships and weapons, and the way Caldari players feel they have been treated by CCP. In my opinion that's why people are upset. You or I might not agree that they have any reason for complaint. That's irrelevant. It's a real problem none the less.

CCP clearly does not get it. You can see it in this thread with the way they packaged all this.

They launched into this thread with a whole bunch of nerf talk. That was foolish, and the only reason they packaged it this way was because they simply do not understand why Caldari pilots are upset, and they apparently do not care enough to really listen and find out.

Had they instead titled this thread "Time For Some Caldari Love!" and then opened it with a long list of all the buffs to HAMs and Torps and Light Missiles, the removal of the T2 penalties, and the changes to skills and mods that would make these weapons even better....then slipped the HM nerf in at the end, this thread would be forty pages long and everyone would be talking about all the stuff they would slaughter with their new HAM Drakes and Caracals. Better still if CCP took the time to hint at all the awesome additional Caldari "love" coming next year rather than just talking gleefully about all the additional Caldari nerfs they have planned.

But that's not what happened. So we have this mess, and what Caldari players reading this thread see is not a list of buffs and a couple (perhaps necessary) nerfs, but rather CCP saying: "We are gonna f@ck you up the ass again, but this time we'll toss some money on the nightstand before we go."

THAT'S the Caldari problem that CCP needs to address.

In my opinion.

To be honest, no.



And looks like CCP is nerfing TDs and trying to make Arbi/Pilgrim/Curse the only viable hull to use TDs. Those ships aren't known for their pwning abilities in fleets...

You're not wrong, but I wasn't comparing training times of all the weapons in a class

I would say Amarr has WAY more issues sub-battleships. Some would say Gallente is even worse, but I don't agree with that completely.



Almost all Caldari ships are viable and almost all if not all Minmatar ships are viable comparatively. For the most part, I cant say the same about Amarr sub-battleships v0v

And "the only problem" is that you have to lose tank to fit those? Am I right?