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Unified Inventory feedback thread

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#21 - 2012-10-18 15:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
FPS drops even when warping away from a mining belt on a super rig What? but the inventory makes it worse.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Infinite Force
#22 - 2012-10-18 15:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
Salpun wrote:
FPS drops even when warping away from a mining belt on a supper rig What? but the inventory makes it worse.

Don't get me started on the "you must use an Orca as a hauler" that's warping between the belt and the POS. You have the Cargo, Ore and Corp Hangars open just so you can grab cans and go. Talk about FPS lag!

ed: Also is an issue if you use a "normal" hauler to do this as well. The "work-around" of closing all you open cargo windows just to warp away from the POS is lame and very shoddy programming.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
CCP Optimal
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2012-10-18 16:00:33 UTC
You're right that the tree is incredibly inefficient to use when it has a lot of entries. That's why I'm certain that the tree isolation feature will come in handy as it allows you to work within any branch of the tree in a separate window which will persist it's settings based on what branch of the tree you are working within.

Rock Kicker wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:

  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).


    • By vertical, I take it the tree is the only way to access divisions short of spending time dragging divisions out to their own windows, and then stacking them to re-create the more efficient tab environment of the previous inventory system? If I do this for every array at my POS, will the stacked windows stay put in this future release so I can chop down the Tree? Or perhaps an option to turn tabs on for an array with divisons?

    I for one shrink the tree away, as it takes up screen space that is best used for other things, it's ineffecient to use, especially at a POS with alot of arrays. IMHO, the tree is the worst part of the new inventory. It's most annoying to have to expand the tree, scroll around to find the proper array, select division, and then shrink it back versus simply clicking on a tab once I've opened the inventory for that array.


    - Edit -

    Not sure if this has been suggested before, but a cool feature would be that if I drag inventories to the neocom when I'm at a POS, and then warp away, they drop off. But return when I get back in range. Could apply to stations as well.
    Magic Crisp
    Amarrian Micro Devices
    #24 - 2012-10-18 16:07:08 UTC
    Overall nice stuff, glad to get these, was more than time, but here're a few suggestions:

    CCP Optimal wrote:

    • Primary (the one opened up through ALT+C or Neocom shortcut) and secondary (the ones opened up through SHIFT+click and such) inventory window pattern has been cleared up so that it makes more sense. As a result, primary and secondary windows will behave exactly the same in almost all aspects, with only one major exception:
    • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).


    The other way around, please? We usually keep an inventory open, with alt-c, and close the tree view. in space, we need space, and that damn tree takes it from us. we need to see what we are shooting. However, when docked, on the secondary window, we usually have the treeview open, because we have the space.

    The secondary window should adopt, like if any was open in a station previously, one should be open upon next docking. If the new station doesn't have the facility that the previous had, then focus back on the personal hangar. I hate when it always closes, because the current station has nocorphangars, but the previous had.

    And get rid of this auto-scaling madness please.

    CCP Optimal wrote:

    • The cargo button in the Ship HUD will now open said window instead of the primary inventory window.


    And will it sill be labelled on a mouse with "Cargo [Alt-C]" ? because this suggests that alt-c has the same functionality as alt-c. you're currently breaking this consitency.

    And additional few things:
    - Make that "open in a new window" setting per-type. Like separetly applied for wrecks, cans, corphangars, capship bays, whatever. This way we can set ourselves, what should open in a separate window in general. this would be the best ever for salvagers.
    - Alt-C should focus on the cargo, as it did before pre-unified. you said you're not taking away functionality with this new unifiied thingie. I constantly use alt-c to get my ship's cargo, now it just focuses on a window, but doesn't switches to the active ship's one. this is also annoying.
    - Make us able to make our defaults!. I want to be able to set the default view type (i prefer listed) the default columns to display (remove size, meta, whatever that is just taking up place), and set the default ordering field (group for me). And i don't want to do this every damn bloody time i open something, or when this new praised unified inventory forgets the setting for something. Give us a menu where we can set these, PLEASE! who do i need to bribe to make thisunified inventory something that works? i've got the cookies...
    - make stacking a lot faster
    - make it to load when the container has bookmarks in it.

    I had another post, in another ccp-originated topic, i can't find it right now, that's a more complete post. Please don't ignore us now. It's very tiresome when you're asking our opinions and then ignoring it. that won't make happy customers.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #25 - 2012-10-18 16:07:35 UTC
    I'll personally make sure to look into those issues. FRAPS recordings would be highly appreciated.

    Scrapyard Bob wrote:
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    If you're running EVE on a low-end PC then the sheer amount of UI elements might be the culprit, in which case the new isolated trees are going to help a lot. Edge case lag defects can be hard to fix because they're usually hard for us to repro, so I encourage you to FRAPS a video and link it in a bug report, as such videos can come in real handy to figure out what's actually going on.


    This happens even on a normal PC (AMD FX-6100 3.3GHz, 16GB RAM, Win7 64bit, NVIDIA GTX 460 1GB). If you have inventory windows open when you warp away from a research or death-star POS, your client's FPS will drop to about 3 (down from 60 FPS) for 20-30 seconds. To be specific, we're talking about a POS tower with:

    - At least 4+ manufacturing arrays, each with 20-30 stacks of items in it spread across the divisions
    - 30+ weapon batteries, each with 1 stack of ammo
    - 8+ research labs with 10+ stacks of datacores / interfaces / decryptors in each along with 100+ BPCs in each from copy jobs

    Which is about average for a research tower as you tend to only tend to them every 3-4 days (unloading BPCs, restocking datacores or other consumables, or restocking the arrays and hauling away finished goods).

    ...

    Two other major performance issues in the current Unified Inventory on TQ are:

    - A hangar with 3 bookmarks sitting on a corporate hangar floor results in a multi-second lag every time you dock and attempt to open up the corporate hangar tree. Even if there's nothing else in the corporate hangar, the bookmarks cause a slowdown.

    - A corp hangar with 25,000+ BPCs or other item stacks, even though those BPCs are nicely tucked away in multiple containers, takes 20-30 seconds for the tree to respond to user input. (Why so many BPCs? Because they don't stack and they tend to accumulate over time and are a hassle to try and sell.) Under the old UI, access to the corporate division hangar was instant because it was well behaved and didn't look inside the containers until it needed to.
    Aryth
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #26 - 2012-10-18 16:17:11 UTC
    I would like to restate this again also. The #1 issue for me has been the huge performance hit with the new system. Corp hangers with lots of assembled ships (for UI purposes a container) result in massive lag times. Assembling ships is godawful on performance, mass dragging them, godawful. This was not the case in the old inventory system that did not make a little tree stub for every container.

    Can someone please tune this part of the system?

    Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

    Creator of Burn Jita

    Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
    Elijah Craig
    Trask Industries
    #27 - 2012-10-18 16:27:44 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that we now have all such cases covered, but could you give me a step by step repro? If it's along those lines:
    1) Open a wreck in a seperate inventory window
    2) Expand tree and configure width
    3) Close window and open another wreck
    4) Expand tree view and notice that tree width hasn't persisted
    ... then I just fixed that minutes ago.
    Elijah Craig wrote:
    The additions look promising. But please tell me if you have fixed the bug which causes the index tree to ignore its previous width and open at its most narrow when the 'my filters' window is minimised?


    OK steps to recreate:-
    1) Sit docked in a station and open inventory (click icon or use Alt-C)
    2) Expand tree and configure width
    3) Make sure the "My Filters" menu at the bottom of the Tree is closed.
    4) Close Inventory.
    5) Now open inventory again (click icon or use Alt-C)
    6) Note that the Tree is at its most narrow width and the previous width has not persisted.

    The key point for this bug is that the "My Filters" menu is closed. By having the "My Filters" menu open when closing the inventory, the Tree width persists with no problems.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #28 - 2012-10-18 16:41:51 UTC
    I'm someone. How many assembled ships are we talking about here?
    Aryth wrote:
    I would like to restate this again also. The #1 issue for me has been the huge performance hit with the new system. Corp hangers with lots of assembled ships (for UI purposes a container) result in massive lag times. Assembling ships is godawful on performance, mass dragging them, godawful. This was not the case in the old inventory system that did not make a little tree stub for every container.

    Can someone please tune this part of the system?
    Infinite Force
    #29 - 2012-10-18 17:11:11 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    I'm someone. How many assembled ships are we talking about here?
    Aryth wrote:
    I would like to restate this again also. The #1 issue for me has been the huge performance hit with the new system. Corp hangers with lots of assembled ships (for UI purposes a container) result in massive lag times. Assembling ships is godawful on performance, mass dragging them, godawful. This was not the case in the old inventory system that did not make a little tree stub for every container.

    Can someone please tune this part of the system?


    I have seen performance hits with assembling 1 ship to [ multiple ] ships. Refer to Scrapyards post for a typcial POS setup in WH / Deep Null space.

    HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

    http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
    Maraner
    The Executioners
    Capital Punishment.
    #30 - 2012-10-18 19:07:06 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    Are you talking about framedrop (decreased FPS for a limited time) or unusually long server response time (spinning wheels)? If the former, then the compact mode will help somewhat, but what will help even more is the tree isolation of secondary windows.

    The compact mode will hide the tree, capacity gauge, quick filter box and estimated prices. That's about everything aside from the items if I'm not mistaken.

    Maraner wrote:
    Very excited to see these changes, will take a look when I get home... Any chance that this might ship before the winter expansion?

    I note that one of your options is new 'compact' mode with everything turned off, does this reduce lag on opening inventory? Also when you say everything off, this includes filter view and the isk value of the contents also off? (please random deity).

    Thanks for these excellent updates. Tippia is gonna be very very pleased.



    Primarily frame rate drop, spinning wheel for me at least seems to have much improved over time, will fraps one and link when able
    Aryth
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #31 - 2012-10-18 20:03:32 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    I'm someone. How many assembled ships are we talking about here?
    Aryth wrote:
    I would like to restate this again also. The #1 issue for me has been the huge performance hit with the new system. Corp hangers with lots of assembled ships (for UI purposes a container) result in massive lag times. Assembling ships is godawful on performance, mass dragging them, godawful. This was not the case in the old inventory system that did not make a little tree stub for every container.

    Can someone please tune this part of the system?



    Varies, but as little as 30 when assembling, to 200+ when trying to move/trade them. For example, on a Sunday (yes I know this was a bad idea given peak day) trying to transfer 1k ships between players or hangers in Jita is futile and doesn't complete even if you wait 30 minutes.

    For assembled ships, from 0, it is twice as long to assemble a ship with new UI as before. I know this as I had to double my G19 macro that does it. Once you assemble more than 30 or so, it gets progressively worse, to the point that at 100+ ships in the tree, it starts lagging very bad on each assemble as it rerenders the tree.

    In the old system, I regularly assembled 200-300 ships in a few minutes with no issues. The new slowness seems to come when it has to "insert" the new ship container into your tree at all, regardless if I minimize the tree. The one workaround sorta is to shift-open the ship hanger, and make sure you do not have tree anywhere at all open or even minimized. This helps.

    Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

    Creator of Burn Jita

    Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
    Altrue
    Exploration Frontier inc
    Tactical-Retreat
    #32 - 2012-10-18 20:37:47 UTC
    Very good job CCP !

    Please, give us the opportunity to loot while accelerating after having initiated a warp ! (Like before :p)
    This caused me to loose a ship a few days ago, after having bombed a noctis :D

    Signature Tanking Best Tanking

    [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

    Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
    Rock Kicker
    Full Bore Inc
    #33 - 2012-10-18 20:45:48 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    You're right that the tree is incredibly inefficient to use when it has a lot of entries. That's why I'm certain that the tree isolation feature will come in handy as it allows you to work within any branch of the tree in a separate window which will persist it's settings based on what branch of the tree you are working within.

    Rock Kicker wrote:
    [quote=CCP Optimal]
  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).


    • By vertical, I take it the tree is the only way to access divisions short of spending time dragging divisions out to their own windows, and then stacking them to re-create the more efficient tab environment of the previous inventory system? If I do this for every array at my POS, will the stacked windows stay put in this future release so I can chop down the Tree? Or perhaps an option to turn tabs on for an array with divisons?


    Not as good as the old tabs, (will still eat more screen space having to keep a tree open), but given the only other option of spending several minutes dragging and stacking windows to create easy-access tabs each time I go to my research POS, it will be less painful.

    Question : Once I break a branch off to a secondary window for say, a corp hangar at a POS, will it persist that way when I return to the POS later and just access corp hangar inventory from the right click menu or will I have to open the primary each time and drag out the needed arrays? I know, probably splitting hairs for the amount of time involved, but research/manufacturing at a tower went from just tedious to simply terrible when the new inventory came out. Anything to reduce the time/click requirements will be appreciated.

    The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.
    Magic Crisp
    Amarrian Micro Devices
    #34 - 2012-10-19 08:14:14 UTC
    One new stuff. The multi-use capabilities. When a someone has a unified open, with a few stuff collapsed in the treeview (like the ship's corp hangar), and some else starts to switch ships from an SMA, then the first said's inventory's trees starts to open and blink all around. This is very annoying when i'm moving stuff around, someone decides to switch ships and suddenly i'm moving all the stuff to the wrong places.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #35 - 2012-10-19 10:10:42 UTC
    If you open up a secondary window for POS corp hangar X, the window will persist it's settings, using X as id, so it doesn't matter how you open up the window. So, yes, you don't need to use the primary window to access it and it will always use the same settings no matter how you opened it up.

    Rock Kicker wrote:
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    You're right that the tree is incredibly inefficient to use when it has a lot of entries. That's why I'm certain that the tree isolation feature will come in handy as it allows you to work within any branch of the tree in a separate window which will persist it's settings based on what branch of the tree you are working within.

    Rock Kicker wrote:
    [quote=CCP Optimal]
  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).


    • By vertical, I take it the tree is the only way to access divisions short of spending time dragging divisions out to their own windows, and then stacking them to re-create the more efficient tab environment of the previous inventory system? If I do this for every array at my POS, will the stacked windows stay put in this future release so I can chop down the Tree? Or perhaps an option to turn tabs on for an array with divisons?


    Not as good as the old tabs, (will still eat more screen space having to keep a tree open), but given the only other option of spending several minutes dragging and stacking windows to create easy-access tabs each time I go to my research POS, it will be less painful.

    Question : Once I break a branch off to a secondary window for say, a corp hangar at a POS, will it persist that way when I return to the POS later and just access corp hangar inventory from the right click menu or will I have to open the primary each time and drag out the needed arrays? I know, probably splitting hairs for the amount of time involved, but research/manufacturing at a tower went from just tedious to simply terrible when the new inventory came out. Anything to reduce the time/click requirements will be appreciated.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #36 - 2012-10-19 10:11:55 UTC
    We have a defect for this already.
    Magic Crisp wrote:
    One new stuff. The multi-use capabilities. When a someone has a unified open, with a few stuff collapsed in the treeview (like the ship's corp hangar), and some else starts to switch ships from an SMA, then the first said's inventory's trees starts to open and blink all around. This is very annoying when i'm moving stuff around, someone decides to switch ships and suddenly i'm moving all the stuff to the wrong places.
    DJ P0N-3
    Table Flippendeavors
    #37 - 2012-10-19 13:04:27 UTC
    Are there any plans to look at the thorny code behind bookmarks as items lagging out their containers forever? The spinny wheel doesn't even activate. It's especially bad when they're in a corp hangar and a lot of other people are accessing corp hangars around you.
    Rengerel en Distel
    #38 - 2012-10-19 18:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rengerel en Distel
    On Duality now, and the inventory doesn't switch when you switch ships. It remains on the previous inventory item.
    edit:
    Shift double click a container/wreck in space will approach the object, but won't open it when you get in range.

    With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
    Zagdul
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2012-10-19 18:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
    @CCP Optimal

    Please, I beg you to look into implementing a dual panel.

    Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg

    Dual Pane idea: Click!

    CCP Please Implement
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #40 - 2012-10-19 22:13:59 UTC
    Looting still opens a large new ships cargo bay window even if i have a minimized one already open.

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.