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[Winter] Attack Cruisers

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Camera Drone
EYES 3VERYWHERE
Sentinel.
#661 - 2012-10-16 13:53:38 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
First

Edit: Looks good, but I am really gonna miss the +5% microwarpdrive capacitor bonus on the thorax Sad


+1 mid slot
Doddy
Excidium.
#662 - 2012-10-16 14:03:02 UTC
They should be increasing fitting requirements on extenders, not removing it from plates ....
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#663 - 2012-10-16 15:06:37 UTC
what about HAM missle bays? those have always been a problem to fit.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Alara IonStorm
#664 - 2012-10-16 15:09:54 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
what about HAM missle bays? those have always been a problem to fit.

10% decrease in grid requirement.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#665 - 2012-10-16 18:10:23 UTC
i'd love to know why the stabber has too be so much faster than the rest?
surely the others shouldn't be so far behind give them more speed and also lower their mass so they are the lightest T1 cruisers as the OP suggests they should be improving their ability to get to their top speed and improving their agility would be a good thing.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#666 - 2012-10-16 18:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aglais
Harvey James wrote:
i'd love to know why the stabber has too be so much faster than the rest?
surely the others shouldn't be so far behind give them more speed and also lower their mass so they are the lightest T1 cruisers as the OP suggests they should be improving their ability to get to their top speed and improving their agility would be a good thing.


It always was. That was just in the form of a velocity bonus per level. They melded that into the hull by default.

The real unforgivable inconsistency is the Rupture, which is a combat cruiser, and can probably attempt speeds similar to the Stabber, while doing more damage and having more defense.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#667 - 2012-10-16 22:19:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheynan
I agree, the Stabber feels too weak.

Ok, it's super-fast, but that's about it, it has neither the damage projection of a vagabond to sucessfully kite nor other special features that would make it worth flying over other attack cruisers (Shield-nano Omen will do about double the damage with Scorch while having similar speed; Rupture is just plain better is any case...)


What about giving the Stabber a traditional split-weapon style ?
As in:
a) more powergrid
b) 15m³ drone bandwith
c) + 1 launcher
d) +7,5%/lvl missile launcher ROF


It would be the essence of all that is Minmatar...all kinds of weapons...falloff bonus.. speed.
However, even with perfect skills it would not even break 500dps on a maximum gank fitting with HAMs, 425mms and Hobs. Sounds balanced to me, considering a gank thorax/omen can pump out up to 700-800.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#668 - 2012-10-16 23:29:12 UTC
There's no doubt a shield-Omen will project and apply ALOT more damage @ range compared to a Stabber. A shield-Omen will out damage a shield-Rupture, Thorax and p much all other tech 1 cruisers; except the Caracal and Bellicose.

So, it's not alone in that regard. There will always be terrible ships in a class. I mean, the stabber does have a falloff bonus which enables it to outdamage a shield-Rupture @ range without drones. That's something, but you'll always have ships that out shine the rest and everyone will start flying them.

The Maller may be the weakest combat cruiser and the stabber may be the weakest attack cruiser. Someone has to be.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#669 - 2012-10-18 19:54:13 UTC
Ya but stabbers got more speed on the omen. It may out damage a stabber but and.decen pilot in..stabber.can.kite.it.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#670 - 2012-10-18 20:06:42 UTC
Lavitakus Bromier wrote:
Ya but stabbers got more speed on the omen. It may out damage a stabber but and.decen pilot in..stabber.can.kite.it.

One word : Scorch.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#671 - 2012-10-19 13:32:57 UTC
Quick update on these guys, got a few tweaks to polish them a bit and help differentiate them from the Combat Cruisers:

Omen
-100 Structure
+10 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Caracal
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-1,000,000 mass
+0.035 Agility
-10 Sig Radius

Thorax
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Stabber
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
Removed the dronebay and bandwidth
-5 Sig Radius

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#672 - 2012-10-19 13:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
INB4 Stabber drone raaaaaaage. I like.

Edit: However... I think the Thorax might be too slow still. 50m/s less than the stabber, and with really poor range, a Thorax will never be able to take down a stabber, regardless of drones. You can field 5 small ECM to get away, but well.... How fast will a nano Stabber be with mwd? up to 1km/s faster?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#673 - 2012-10-19 13:51:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick update on these guys, got a few tweaks to polish them a bit and help differentiate them from the Combat Cruisers:

Omen
-100 Structure
+10 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Caracal
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-1,000,000 mass
+0.035 Agility
-10 Sig Radius

Thorax
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Stabber
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
Removed the dronebay and bandwidth
-5 Sig Radius


very tame changes stabber is too quick and these are still heavier than combat cruisers why?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#674 - 2012-10-19 14:29:21 UTC
There are changes to the Combat cruisers coming through the pipeline atm that will be the more significant part of ensuring each ship has its own flavour.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#675 - 2012-10-19 14:32:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There are changes to the Combat cruisers coming through the pipeline atm that will be the more significant part of ensuring each ship has its own flavour.


good that rupture needs a overhaul

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#676 - 2012-10-19 14:38:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
CCP Fozzie wrote:
There are changes to the Combat cruisers coming through the pipeline atm that will be the more significant part of ensuring each ship has its own flavour.


Hope it contains a moa midslot, it really needs one to differentiate it as having a great shield tank if it is to remain at 195m/s


I like the attack cruisers now. Hopefully the fix for the combats will have the rupture moving more reasonably in comparison with the non-minmatar attack boats, and the moa will end up more able to compete with the vexor/thorax.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Nul'tessa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#677 - 2012-10-19 14:43:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick update on these guys, got a few tweaks to polish them a bit and help differentiate them from the Combat Cruisers:

Omen
-100 Structure
+10 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Caracal
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-1,000,000 mass
+0.035 Agility
-10 Sig Radius

Thorax
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Stabber
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
Removed the dronebay and bandwidth
-5 Sig Radius



When you make these tweaks do you update the opening post with the new stats? Or is that post still showing the original stats?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#678 - 2012-10-19 15:21:57 UTC
Nul'tessa wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick update on these guys, got a few tweaks to polish them a bit and help differentiate them from the Combat Cruisers:

Omen
-100 Structure
+10 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Caracal
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-1,000,000 mass
+0.035 Agility
-10 Sig Radius

Thorax
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
-10 Sig Radius

Stabber
-100 Structure
+5 Velocity
Removed the dronebay and bandwidth
-5 Sig Radius



When you make these tweaks do you update the opening post with the new stats? Or is that post still showing the original stats?



The OP is updated

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#679 - 2012-10-19 15:41:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Nul'tessa wrote:


When you make these tweaks do you update the opening post with the new stats? Or is that post still showing the original stats?



The OP is updated

o7

Brilliant. Now I can do even more mad scientist-ey EFT warrior failfitting.

Thank you for the quick updates. And for the updates in general.
FistyMcBumBasher
State War Academy
Caldari State
#680 - 2012-10-19 16:18:08 UTC
Not sure I like the -100 structure on the thorax since it is already weak enough in regards to tank, but nice that it is finally as fast as the rupture. I am also a little uncertain about the stabber being 50 m/s faster than the rest of the attack cruisers, but with its's lower dps that should even them out. Caracal is looking extremely sexy already, and these just put the cherry on top of the sexcream.

As an addendum to my earlier post about the omen and maller being too similar, I am still of the general same opinion, but after playing around with them in the retribution version of EFT I have come to the conclusion that they are both decent ships that are going to see much more use than their previous incarnations.

You and your team have been doing a great job so far, so I trust all of the ships will find a nice place.

Keep up the good work.