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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4881 - 2012-10-19 15:23:55 UTC
Yoshite McLulzypants wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles



Don't forget crash boosters when making this fix .


Crash has always affected the short range missiles.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Apteko
Perkone
Caldari State
#4882 - 2012-10-19 15:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Apteko
Quote:
Missile specs are much easier to train than the gunnery trees. And all the support missile skills you have already trained for HMs already are or will now become transferrable to all the other missile specs. The addition of GMP to affecting all missiles is a huge buff to rockets ... torps.


Umm...does this girl understand what she's talking about?

No...really...talking bout GMP as a buff, because it will affect rage rockets with 30m explosion signature...

And this -25% won't help torps a lot. It barely solves one problem, but there is 2 more: exp velo and speed. So torps will be such useless as they are now.

Oh and there is one main skill and one special to every type of weapon, turrets or missiles. Even multipliers are same...
Lili Lu
#4883 - 2012-10-19 15:54:18 UTC
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
Missile specs are much easier to train than the gunnery trees. And all the support missile skills you have already trained for HMs already are or will now become transferrable to all the other missile specs. The addition of GMP to affecting all missiles is a huge buff to rockets ... torps.


Umm...does this girl understand what she's talking about?

No...really...talking bout GMP as a buff, because it will affect rage rockets with 30m explosion signature...

And this -25% won't help torps a lot. It barely solves one problem, but there is 2 more: exp velo and speed. So torps will be such useless as they are now.

Oh and there is one main skill and one special to every type of weapon, turrets or missiles. Even multipliers are same...

Ah yes whiney boy, CCP surely owes you a new weapon system to do everything since they are so unfairly taking away the existing weapon system that allowed you to do everything.

The buffs should have to solve all your problems. Then you can just change over to the new easy paradigm and not have to think. All games should be easy. That's what makes them fun. Why can't CCP see this? Sad
Apteko
Perkone
Caldari State
#4884 - 2012-10-19 16:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Apteko
Lili Lu wrote:
Apteko wrote:
[quote][b]
Oh and there is one main skill and one special to every type of weapon, turrets or missiles. Even multipliers are same...

Ah yes whiney boy, CCP surely owes you a new weapon system to do everything since they are so unfairly taking away the existing weapon system that allowed you to do everything.

The buffs should have to solve all your problems. Then you can just change over to the new easy paradigm and not have to think. All games should be easy. That's what makes them fun. Why can't CCP see this? Sad



Boo!

Such a pure lose, since you can't say anything about your fail in previous post.
:( not even challenging.


Stable dmg is not always advantage... ability to hit frigsize for 200 dmg all the way sometimes is much worse, than chance to instakill it, while it is 30km away and moving straight forward...

And this poor torps, flying slower than enemy ships...^)
Lili Lu
#4885 - 2012-10-19 16:19:53 UTC
Apteko wrote:
Boo!

Such a pure lose, since you can't say anything about your fail in previous post.
:( not even challenging.


Stable dmg is not always advantage... ability to hit frigsize for 200 dmg all the way sometimes is much worse, than chance to instakill it, while it is 30km away and moving straight forward...

And this poor torps, flying slower than enemy ships...^)

I know, I'm so wrong. I mean where are the mods to help out these new still underperforming missiles like something to increase the signature radius of a target or to slow it down? And why couldn't they even give these abilities to drones so I can still feel safe and not have to sacrifice any tanking slots? Why can't any of those things help me kill everytihing and anything with the weapons in my high slots? Why is this game so hard and inflexible? And here they are giving a buff and it's still not enough because I don't see how I could ever win at this game. I just want to have my screen show some balloons falling and sparkles going off and say "you win". Cry
Apteko
Perkone
Caldari State
#4886 - 2012-10-19 16:38:21 UTC
Quote:
I know, I'm so wrong


That was enough. no need in all this strange sentences. you wrote...
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4887 - 2012-10-19 16:47:51 UTC
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
Missile specs are much easier to train than the gunnery trees. And all the support missile skills you have already trained for HMs already are or will now become transferrable to all the other missile specs. The addition of GMP to affecting all missiles is a huge buff to rockets ... torps.

[...]

Oh and there is one main skill and one special to every type of weapon, turrets or missiles. Even multipliers are same...

Large laser spec requires small and medium spec IV, which require small and medium lasers V, a support skill to V and gunnery to V.

Torpedo spec only requires torpedo V (light missile III, heavy missile III) and missile launcher operation IV.

The difference is 50 days or so. Cruiser sized missile specs are also easier to train for than gun specs.
Lili Lu
#4888 - 2012-10-19 16:50:51 UTC
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
I know, I'm so wrong


That was enough. no need in all this strange sentences. you wrote..

Yeah, I guess there's no sarcasm in your language. Or at least not in your little world. Again, things should be easy to figure out.Lol
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4889 - 2012-10-19 16:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Apteko wrote:
Oh and there is one main skill and one special to every type of weapon, turrets or missiles. Even multipliers are same...


What Lili means is the fact that to use T2 HMLs you don't have to train T2 light missiles first. Or to use T2 torps you don't have to train first T2 rockets and T2 HAMs.

With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.
Apteko
Perkone
Caldari State
#4890 - 2012-10-19 17:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Apteko
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4891 - 2012-10-19 17:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: MIrple
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.


Torps can be used on Stealth bombs, Battleships. so 4 SB plus Typhoon, Widow, Raven, Scorp NI, Rattlesnake so That is 11 Ships right there so how is this just a few?

Edit: Forgot Golem and CNR so 13 Total. But yeah only a few use this.

Gallente only have 9 ships that can use large hybrigs we need to fix this asap
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4892 - 2012-10-19 17:15:51 UTC
.. and all those missile support skills have no use for anything else. And:

RoF and damage bonus skills have both 1% more per level for gunnery in comparison to RoF and damage bonus skills for missiles. Why? This sums to a 5% bigger RoF and 5% bigger damage bonus for turrets over missiles on all l5 ... change that ASAP.
Noemi Nagano
Perkone
Caldari State
#4893 - 2012-10-19 17:18:20 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.


Torps can be used on Stealth bombs, Battleships. so 4 SB plus Typhoon, Widow, Raven, Scorp NI, Rattlesnake so That is 11 Ships right there so how is this just a few?


The SBs use torps, indeed. Most of them dont seem to use t2 launchers though, according to eve-kill ..
And the Phoon is in this list the only really viable PvP combat BS. Its not Caldari, ofc ... Scorp is not there for its Torps, nor is Widow.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4894 - 2012-10-19 17:20:49 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
.. and all those missile support skills have no use for anything else. And:

RoF and damage bonus skills have both 1% more per level for gunnery in comparison to RoF and damage bonus skills for missiles. Why? This sums to a 5% bigger RoF and 5% bigger damage bonus for turrets over missiles on all l5 ... change that ASAP.


You misunderstand. This is a good thing for missile users and young characters in particular, as it means that missiles are relatively better at lower skill level, since the deviation from the magnitude of the bonuses at skills-at-V is less, relative to turrets.

Hope this helps!
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4895 - 2012-10-19 17:20:55 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.


Torps can be used on Stealth bombs, Battleships. so 4 SB plus Typhoon, Widow, Raven, Scorp NI, Rattlesnake so That is 11 Ships right there so how is this just a few?


The SBs use torps, indeed. Most of them dont seem to use t2 launchers though, according to eve-kill ..
And the Phoon is in this list the only really viable PvP combat BS. Its not Caldari, ofc ... Scorp is not there for its Torps, nor is Widow.


I didnt put Scorp on the list be you could add that as well as I only posted the CN Scorp. While I agree they are not there to use these they are still there main weapon system as they do have a bonus to them.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#4896 - 2012-10-19 17:21:06 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.


Torps can be used on Stealth bombs, Battleships. so 4 SB plus Typhoon, Widow, Raven, Scorp NI, Rattlesnake so That is 11 Ships right there so how is this just a few?


The SBs use torps, indeed. Most of them dont seem to use t2 launchers though, according to eve-kill ..
And the Phoon is in this list the only really viable PvP combat BS. Its not Caldari, ofc ... Scorp is not there for its Torps, nor is Widow.


SB's don't have enough cpu for T2 torps beside some manticore fits really depends what you sacrifice

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4897 - 2012-10-19 17:23:49 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Noemi Nagano wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Apteko wrote:
Quote:
With guns it's a different story:
To use T2 large autocannons you have to train T2 small autocannons and T2 medium autocannons.
To use T2 large artillery you have to train T2 small artillery and T2 medium artillery.


Yeah.

It's done, cuz there is just a few ships using torps as main wep, ofc.

Else it will be just waste of skillpoints.
There is nothing "imbalance" or even "good" in it: you gain less variety of ships for less points spend.

And skills, that have any influence on your weapon system effectiveness, are totally the same.


Torps can be used on Stealth bombs, Battleships. so 4 SB plus Typhoon, Widow, Raven, Scorp NI, Rattlesnake so That is 11 Ships right there so how is this just a few?


The SBs use torps, indeed. Most of them dont seem to use t2 launchers though, according to eve-kill ..
And the Phoon is in this list the only really viable PvP combat BS. Its not Caldari, ofc ... Scorp is not there for its Torps, nor is Widow.


SB's don't have enough cpu for T2 torps beside some manticore fits really depends what you sacrifice


While I agree with the fact that SB are limited on their CPU they still fit torp launchers and I was responding to someone who stated that torps are not used on many ships.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#4898 - 2012-10-19 17:29:35 UTC
yes well phoon is getting revamped as full torp boat maybe with TP.
I still don't see why scorp is ecm and has to be ecm boat surely a battleship should be all about dps and tank would be nice if they made it a proper torp boat like the navy version

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#4899 - 2012-10-19 17:50:12 UTC
Noemi Nagano wrote:
The SBs use torps, indeed. Most of them dont seem to use t2 launchers though, according to eve-kill ..
And the Phoon is in this list the only really viable PvP combat BS. Its not Caldari, ofc ... Scorp is not there for its Torps, nor is Widow.

Start by telling us what you want. You are always moving the point, each time we say something, you say no, there is more. The most hilarious is this "not caldari BS" ****. What do you want ? We already told you torp will be buffed, so the raven might be pvp compliant, as will be the golem, and the drake, and the caracal. They you say "I doubt it", but the truth is you don't know, but they very well may be very good.

You are ignoring all the answers to your problems.
Xamiakas
United-Empire
#4900 - 2012-10-19 18:33:51 UTC
why exactly are you nerfing missiles again? they`re never the top damagers anywhere nor good for intercepting stuff.. actually missiles except torps have the lowest dps and take ages to reach the targets unless they`re pointblank .. yet u`re nerfing the range.. nerfing the dps and ******* up explosion radius.. thus making missiles obsolete.. while in previous patches u were buffing the guns.. logic in that?

<-- unbelievably low tollerance to stupidity in people. That + you being your mother's child might aswell be the main reason why i am NOT your father.