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Beyond Oruze and Osobnyk; The Jovian Empires

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Borascus
#61 - 2012-10-18 23:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Bloodpetal wrote:

((1))
Well, on one hand you're saying the Talocan are older, but on the other hand you're saying Sleepers are an Architect race that laid down the infrastructure in the New Eden cluster. But the Talocan came after them into the cluster through the wormhole?

I think you're mixing things up. First, we have to agree all the races are essentially human. Source below.


((2))
Any structures from the EVE Gate on this side didn't have to be built for them to come through. It could have been built after they came through the gate to secure the Wormhole and make it "safer" to go through.

So.


((3))
The Yan Jung are the only race specifically stated to have immigrated through the wormhole due to a mission agent who is an archaeologist saying so... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sebast_Mathon


((4))
The Sleepers and Talocan are the bigger question mark as to "when"... along with the Jove, the Talocan, Sleepers and Yan could have co-existed while the current races "rebuilt". We have no knowledge of any humans existing in the cluster before the New Eden immigration. If you don't accept this as common fact, then we'll always disagree on something fundamental.

((5))
The Talocan would have probably suffered the least from the disconnection, since they were most likely to have maintained the original Stargates, and also have plenty of mentions of self-sustaining ships. Having access to all the gates and being able to travel New Eden, would have made them pretty tough to take down their society first. Also, this would coincide with your analysis that they are the "oldest" - meaning they were able to travel and lay infrastructure before others. I won't touch the Anoikis wormholes at the moment in this analysis.

((6))
The Yan Jung were probably isolating themselves, depending on how many years they survived after the fall of the Gate. Since we have heard little to nothing about them really, impossible to say for sure.


((7))
Back to the interesting one, we have the Sleepers. If they had been developing their technology separate from the Talocan as they were trying to recover, then they would have been in a good position to follow up on the progress of the Talocan. But, they could have grown side by side as well with the Talocan after a period of time.


((8))
If you want to read some Dev Bread crumbs on the matter


---



The way I've read into it:

1. The Bloodlines that make up the constituent members of each faction are from isolated colonies that are discovered, as you mention later. Architects / farmers / warmongers / artists came through the EVE Gate during the same timeframe, based on the Timeline that is quoted later and the separate empirical timelines for each Empire. Its not as though Jin-Mei, Intaki, Achura, etc.. are from a different evolutionary ladder, culturally they are different, and known by different names.

2. Agree with you, we find wormholes now in New Eden, we pass through them without a gate, the EVE Gate would be "Airport Customs Office" (like the perimeter complex in Sleeper space though, its an ownership structure, not necessarily a facilitator)
It's in another thread within the last month where its discussed tho.
Quote:
Reaching the Sleepers’ treasures is a hazardous task. Something stirs amidst the ancient outpost: a nagging fear, a festering phantasm. Not everything sleeps peacefully here: Who knows if there are nightmares lurking in this berceuse?


3. Yep, All the historical timelines illustrate a plot device as to how they are on the planets they are on. These all include acquisition of their homeworlds, either by monetary transaction, direction or discovery. For the Ancient races, its worth bearing in mind that statements have been made that no sentient life was found in New Eden prior to the EVE Gate, but on a comparative; as much as a child born on Matar is Minmatar, The colonisers from the EVE Gate would be indistinguishable. There could be a reason why the Talocan were only in one small constellation after the EVE Gate was inoperable, either way another colony that flourished on Caldari Prime would not necessarily recognise them thousands of years later.

4. We only have that the EVE Wormhole was discovered in 7xxxAD and colonisation of this side begins 2 years after that, it takes little time to online a station, the gate may have taken two years to import and online, it may have been made whilst ships travelled through a naked wormhole. The stabilisation of wormholes by sansha's forces implies they found a way to govern aperture harmonics, like the "collapsed" EVE Gate prevents passage. Talocan/Sleeper tech looks ahead of "pre-Amarr Empire: Athra Tech"

5. The Talocan are generally found in Okkelen, their spread is not recorded in the outlying regions (Delve, Outer Passage, Cache. (Excluding the W-Space systems). Pottsey noted that the Jove were less technologically advanced at the time of EVE Gate, they managed to survive and flourish. No record of purchase.

6. The Yan Jung homeworlds are listed as seeing better days (one of them is a lava planet now, previously it was a colonised planet: Anti-Terraforming Device? Large Impact? - Option 2 for me).

7. They would have known each other on the Terran side of the EVE Gate, the acquisition of the Minmatar homeworld, only race to favour static gates naturally, is a discovery, any costs are outside of the initial acquisitions. Like landing in New York and heading to California to stake a claim whilst people set up New York. Missiles or Mass Driver rails and blasters?

8. The Torfri video was quite enough for tonight thank you, tomorrow.

You've got a firm grasp, continued discussion is invited, there are no owners on a fiction forum. There is so much time in finding the odds and ends of each race that it lacks continuous evaluation, whilst blowing up capsuleers or being blown up. The dots can join any way but fact
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#62 - 2012-10-18 23:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
You didn't offend. And I would really like you NOT to leave the conversation. You have added immeasurably to my understanding of a few things. I was merely pointing out that, yes, some conjecture is required. I would be ecstatic if you show irrefutable proof that I am wrong in any regard.

Quote:
Sometimes conjecture is needed to get to a position that is supported by other evidence, but that doesn't mean to fabricate whole elements just to suit an argument with no goal.


Statements like this just seem a tad condescending to me. If that is not your intent, I stand corrected..

I am not offended by the truth, I just don't have it all... I can never gain any truth by following errant assumptions. I would hope that you would be equally open to an opposing viewpoint. Perhaps, berate was not the proper wording? I meant no offense. And apologize if I offended.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#63 - 2012-10-18 23:29:01 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
You didn't offend. And I would really like you NOT to leave the conversation. You have added immeasurably to my understanding of a few things. I was merely pointing out that, yes, some conjecture is required. I would be ecstatic if you show irrefutable proof that I am wrong in any regard.


That's not really my goal here. I'm just pointing out what is there to be seen. If you don't want to accept it, that's fine. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Better ways to spend my time. I'm doing this for my own entertainment.


Quote:
I am not offended by the truth, I just don't have it all... I can never gain any truth by following errant assumptions. I would hope that you would be equally open to an opposing viewpoint. Perhaps, berate was not the proper wording? I meant no offense. And apologize if I offended.


Well, I'm not here to aggravate anyone. If it comes to the position that I'm going to "aggravate" someone, then, I'll just leave the discussion. That's not a threat, it's a lot easier to do that then spend the time trying to make amends/excuse myself/etc over what is a simple discussion.


I think my simpler question is a rough (order of 1,000s of years) timeline of Sleeper/Yan Jung/Talocan developments. The post above has some good points.

Where I am.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#64 - 2012-10-18 23:48:27 UTC

Interesting tidbit found :

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Misu_Baniya

Where I am.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#65 - 2012-10-19 00:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
My points about race, as Borascus illustrated above, are that, though we have current naming conventions, since the migration into New Eden, these naming conventions likely changed with the locale in which the races found themselves. Only three factions are specifically named in the early timeline. The Conformists became the Amarr. The Tau Cetans became the Gallente. And the employees of a Megacorporation became the Caldari. No mention is made of the Yan Jungs in the timeline. No mention is made of the Talocan or Jove, and no mention is made of the Sleepers or Takmahl in the timeline.

By the time they are mentioned in the fiction, it is far after the colonization and nearly impossible to gain a positive impression of their heritage. And we also find smaller factions in New Eden that are not addressed in the timeline either, such as the Ni Kunni, yet we see a distinct "heritage" in their bloodline writeups.

Race is a very subjective thing, as obviously, the Caldari show two definitive "races" that make up their society, the obviously Caucasian descended Civire and the obviously Asian descended Deteis. These two "races" blended to become the Caldari, who can show a preedominant trait for either "race". All dependant on how the player chooses to customize the avatar. Race really mucked things up in my opinion, as we are all derived from humans, even in the real world..

The Achur were added to allow a purer Asian ancestry to the mix. The Yan Jungs are, by all the evidence available, of Asian descent, too. Though there is a distinct genetic drift between Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, Malaysian, Japanese and Indian, though the base stock is the same, and they all consider themselves Asian. And, the Yan Jungs are said to have likely settled well beyond the constellation in which their Cosmos missions are located.

So, too, the Jove conform to this apparent paradigm. Statics and Modifiers are the two main branches of their engineered departure from humanity. Yet, the Jove are not listed on the timeline as to their introduction in New Eden. We do find hints in the novels and ingame tidbits about them.

The Elders are the base Jovian stock, from Templar One we can assume them to be the Architects, or their direct descendants. Whether this designation includes the Enheduanni, we don't know. We only know that a driving imperative for them was genetically engineered longevity. By the end of the first Jovian Empire, they are a clearly defined bloodline. As it is alluded to that the Elders were responsible for the First Empires end. I guess we will have to see how the retconned bloodlines will play out, whether they were the Architects or their descendants.

Every time I browse to the Jovian page, less information is present, so, I can only assume CCP is slowly deciding how to proceed with them. So for me to express my thoughts beyond this is a moot point for now.

The Sleepers, or Stasis People from the profile, which is also missing now, appear to not so much be a bloodline as a cultural imperative that arose later, amongst a broad base of the population, Statics and Modifiers alike. And even Static and Modifier are now gone from their racial profile. Many of the bloodlines mirrored some interesting portions of modern ideologies, so I am eager to see how it plays out.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#66 - 2012-10-19 01:27:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
One thing I can comment on in regard to the Jove, they were at the bottom of the social ladder in the early history. They are portrayed as being treated as inferior by the Yan Jungs, who they apparently did interact with, can't link this because it was relayed in the form of a spoiler from the novels. The early culture of New Eden is referred to as the Yan Jung Era. This is verified in the Present Pieces chronicle.

A cultural era in archeology is directly related to and named for the dominant or defining cultural characteristics. For example the Victorian Era of Great Britain or the Spanish Era in Hispania.

This lends a good amount of credence to the Four Occupations caste aspect we see in New Eden to this day. At least in the Minmatar Republic. Though it also suggests such a social stratification everywhere. Every Empire reflects this social stratification. I see no strong argument against it.

The Jove have always been portrayed as outside this system, they are the fifth race, which is also represented, indirectly in the form of Outcasts. Given that Jamyl Sarum suggests in the 514 chronicle that the Sleepers society (i.e. a substratum of Jovian society) existed prior to the Eve Gate, we can assume that the Jovians were engineering themselves before the Eve wormhole opened.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#67 - 2012-10-19 02:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
Roga Dracor wrote:
One thing I can comment on in regard to the Jove, they were at the bottom of the social ladder in the early history. They are portrayed as being treated as inferior by the Yan Jungs, who they apparently did interact with, can't link this because it was relayed in the form of a spoiler from the novels. The early culture of New Eden is referred to as the Yan Jung Era. This is verified in the Present Pieces chronicle.

A cultural era in archeology is directly related to and named for the dominant or defining cultural characteristics. For example the Victorian Era of Great Britain or the Spanish Era in Hispania.

This lends a good amount of credence to the Four Occupations caste aspect we see in New Eden to this day. At least in the Minmatar Republic. Though it also suggests such a social stratification everywhere. Every Empire reflects this social stratification. I see no strong argument against it.

The Jove have always been portrayed as outside this system, they are the fifth race, which is also represented, indirectly in the form of Outcasts.



Good catch. Been a long time since I read that chronicle. So Yan Jung is at 15000 years ago.

23300 - 15000 = 8000, which is around the time that the gate had closed. So, the Yan Jung faded relatively soon afterwards (3000-4000 years?) then as the 1st Jove empire had to come to a head shortly after that time frame.

The other revelation is that the piece from the wormhole and the piece from the Matar solar system are from the same era. So drawing a clear timeline between the 2 locations. Insinuating a few things about how things can be affiliated. This might be the only (if accurate) evidence that the W-Space is our origin Milky Way Galaxy (I'm sure this has been suspected and beaten to a dead donkey by now with no hints if it's true either way, but always been high on my suspect list).


Also, the massive ship (Mothership, etc we've seen referenced from the Jove). The ending is a bit ambiguous on time frame in itself and what the "Skymother" is... well, sounds like a Colony ship. So where are the MInmatar going? But that's a divergence from the historical nature of this thread...

Where I am.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#68 - 2012-10-19 02:18:11 UTC
Feel free to diverge, it's a common occurence when exploring the history of New Eden, especially on my part..Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#69 - 2012-10-19 02:22:40 UTC
Well, the chronicle must be from the future.

The wormholes didn't open up till 6 months earlier in that year, and the Younger character had years to become a "Chief Gravometrics Engineer Kestor Thevistos".

So, saying at LEAST 10 years of education and promotions, even at excellent performance.

And, the old man is considerably older, 10 years will make you much weaker by that point.

So, let's say 10 years into the future, from 2 years ago. 8 years to figure out what Skymother is... Bear

Where I am.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#70 - 2012-10-19 02:42:36 UTC
I've seen Tech 10 proposed as a goal for technological advancement, CCP has a ways to go in game development, after all..Lol

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#71 - 2012-10-19 03:23:37 UTC
In terms of the ages of empires, AJ tried doing something on that and drew a complete blank because the timeframes were far too washy. IDK if anyone has a link to that project?

On a second note: As far as I know, the Terrans were the 'unified' (har har) group that came through the EVE wormhole to start with, it was after that collapsed that the factions split, the more prepared groups falling into the lesser decline and creating the 'ancient' empires (Talocan, Sleeper, Jove, Enheduanni etc etc). By this logic it's fairly reasonable to say that the ancient races surpassed the tech level that the Terrans entered with, given that the timeframe is in the thousands of years. If humans went from crawling in caves to flying through wormholes in about 4000 (being generous) years, then why shouldn't a collapsed-spaceship-civilisation be able to regain that level of glory within about 2000?
Borascus
#72 - 2012-10-19 08:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Project Skymother was around the same time as "the bright light in the sky visible from anywhere in New Eden."

The "Bootini" star as its recorded, comes about in YC109 and dissappears in YC110, there is a good review of it here: The Bright Star, which contains links to the old news feeds.

Project Skymother was originally described as an attempt to long haul back to the other side of the EVE wormhole.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#73 - 2012-10-19 11:02:18 UTC
I remember the Bootini Star, I remember it played havoc with onboard computer systems across the cluster.. Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#74 - 2012-10-19 11:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
An interesting enigma (CCP fail) I just discovered.. The static data for New Eden solar system claims the star as a small yellow star. But this quote, drawn from one of the links you provided states the following;

Quote:
The New Eden system is an enigma to us. The system itself is not that impressive – just some space debris and a few asteroid belts orbiting a pale white dwarf.


One of the things I concentrated on early in my investigations was the fact that the Vitrauze Project chron, or Anoikis chron, seemed to place an emphasis on the fact that Lianda Burreau was one of the few Capsuleers who was an astrophysicist. So I began studying stellar classifications and the implications that could be found in this line of research. Thinking the Blue stars and Orange stars held import, due to the blue and orange crystals in the geodes I described from the Sister's arc above..

And the fact the Seylinn event is centered around Blue stars.

The Geztic shuttle orbits a Blue star and one of the systems next to it is an orange star.

I tend to think the White Dwarf classification to be the proper and "true" classification for New Eden.. I need to track down the particulars on the star to continue properly, though.. It bears on Magnetic Matter and seemed to have bearing on the Polestars..

For instance, if the Polestars have a single polarity, and the Static Gates have a single polarity, connecting them might give a static discharge that would connect the two.. An example in science fiction that uses the principle is the Gauss Rifle.. The coilgun in the link is our real attempts at utilizing the principle.. Now, if your could tether a ship or station to this discharge, you could, theoretically, travel at the speed of light.

I dropped the subject after seeing New Eden as a Yellow sun and concentrated on things that were easier to wrap my brain around. Though I still see it as a relevent part of the puzzle.

One of the things that bothered me has always been the gripe by so called empiricists about the age of stars in the cluster and the wormhole systems. White Dwarfs are thought to be the at the end of the main sequence stars life cycle.

Quote:
It is thought that, over a lifespan exceeding the age (~13.7 billion years) of the Universe, such a star will eventually burn all its hydrogen and end its evolution as a helium white dwarf composed chiefly of helium-4 nuclei. Owing to the time this process takes, it is not thought to be the origin of observed helium white dwarfs. Rather, they are thought to be the product of mass loss in binary systems or mass loss due to a large planetary companion.


i.e. Accretion. If, as many have implied, the Sleepers, and perhaps earlier civilizations were drawing matter from stars (accreting) these stars would appear unnaturally old.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#75 - 2012-10-19 14:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Also, Bloodpetal got me to thinking about interstellar measurements in relation to the J Locus' and the White Dwarfs are also thought to be a good candidate for Standard Candles..

And the bootini star reminded me of Novae..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#76 - 2012-10-19 14:31:44 UTC


Looks like the Wiki for the Bottini Star has some errata. The star didn't close a year later, but closer to a month after the article was made, apparently 3 months after first appearing. (corrections made, and proper article cited in the reference section below [final article led back to the first article, not the ending one].)

This thread states it was a graphical error that CCP was poking fun at via in game news.
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/721823-0/page/1

Although now part of eve fiction on some level. One has to ask how seriously to take it.

But just to bite at the bit...
http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1788&tid=2
"We believe that its located below and to the 'south' of our cluster, separated from us by some 3.64 million light years."

For sense of scale, Milky Way is estimated at 100,000ly diamater, and New Eden roughly at 100ly diameter for current known space. The 4 closest galaxies to Milky Way are under 100,000 ly, and the farthest "Local Group" galaxies are at 4.7mly. Just past that are other "galaxy clusters". So, the phenomena is pretty freaking far. But, still within our "Local" area, galactic-ally speaking.

Also, it's stated there is no "physical structure" near there. So, it defied all known laws of gravity and was a spatial abnormality that defied all known fundamental laws of Thermodynamics and Space-Time. o.0 I think our physicists today would have laid their brains out on a table with a shotgun if they saw it.



I'm currently digging into a small side-project to plot the J locus' using SSDS data.

Unfortunately, the J signatures we are given are only "half" of the information we need to determine which objects we should be looking at.

Where I am.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#77 - 2012-10-19 15:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Ya, my own look into the J Locus thing showed them as incomplete, and so I assumed it a "nod" to contemporary science. Which led me to the belief it might be something more, as well. Such as a designation of the 1st and 2nd Jovian Empires. Not being well versed in the subject, I still don't know whether the classification system contains higher base numbers, like J3, J4, J5.. But, wormhole space only contains J1 and J2..

CCP, during a patch I can't recall off the top of my head, accidentally deleted the boot.ini file on many players computers.. Yes, I was one..Evil

Maybe it was a signal beamed from the creators of the monoliths.. Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#78 - 2012-10-19 15:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
I want to go back to your initial insinuations about the Jove being closely related to the other empires enough to "be them".


I want to say, I'm not specifically supporting this theory or not, just looking at things as they appear.


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Statics
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Modifiers


Looking at the Jovian Ancestries ::

Quote:
The Elders were one of the first groups to use genetic engineering for a special purpose, namely that of slowing the aging process. Once, the Elders were a prominent political force in the Jovian society, but after they brought about the fall of the first Jovian empire they have become more reclusive.


Enhedduanni?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enheduanna

I'm not sure if that was dug up from the randomness of the internet in previous posts/threads. But the name is too similar to be disputed. A simple "a" to "i" implies pluralization. Meaning High Priest(ess) of Anu.

Anu being a Sky-God whom : . "It was believed that he had the power to judge those who had committed crimes, and that he had created the stars as soldiers to destroy the wicked."

Quote:
The Stasis People are Jovians that voluntarily go into cryo-stasis for decades or centuries, hoping that when they wake a bright and better world will greet them. For many Jovians their race is in the twilight of their greatness. Ever since the fall of the first empire the Jovian society have been in a slow, steady decline. Most blame the Jovian Disease for this and believe that the Jovians can only hope to turn the tide once a cure for the disease has been found.


Sleepers?

It doesn't quite fit the Sleeper profile, but it speaks to an ability that may have been lost along the way.


To direct comments at the inability for the Enhedduanni/Sleepers/Talocan to be more technologically advanced than the current Jove isn't really that difficult. The Jove hasn't had uninterrupted freedom and there have been things such as the "Shrouded Days", and the various empires. Break off sections could have continued in a semblance of no disturbance and applied their influence as they continued to grow in power, unknown to the Jove or us as things go.

So, if I were to propose, the Enhedduanni would be the segment of Jove society from the First Jovian Empire which had unsurpassable power and brought down the Jovian Society of that era, but were able to continue moving along. The Elders recognized in the Jovian racial bloodlines, would be the BROKEN elements of the racial bloodline that stayed with the main element of Jovian society as we know it. The Enhedduanni would be a section that was able to continue uninterrupted from the First Empire, but at a smaller scale. The Yan Jung may have been crushed by this Jovian Empire, or be another name for it. With no hard evidence, I think the Yan Jung represent one the most powerful "Terran" factions that came through the hole and probably dominated the majority of the cluster until they had faded and the Jovian First Empire overtook them. So they aren't Elders/Enhedduanni in this model.

The Second Empire would easily be the Sleepers, as they tried to shake off the Jovian Disease. Quarantine areas in Sleeper sections and the need for a "Sleeper" society would have benefited from the Solar technologies of the era to produce consistent results over a period of time uninterrupted. Opening of the Wormholes during this era to other areas of W-space would be possible in a controlled method without requiring the destructive nature of a phenomena such as what happened with Seyllin and the other shattered planets (That method being needed to brute force the phenomena since whomever wanted them open clearly doesn't want to give the technology to the Empires). If the Sleepers were escaping Jovian Disease at that time then they may have been looking to get back to the "homeland" in order to get raw genetic material to fix their issues.

The Talocan are the bigger question. I think (mostly opinion) that this race AND the culture behind it were specialized in building the Stargates in the New Eden cluster when colonization began and facilitated large colony establishments on both sides of the EVE gate. They would be separate from the Yan Jung and the Jovians. The 2nd Jovian Empire (Sleepers) picked up the tech or reconnected with the Talocan who had advanced enough by the point of reconnection (whether alive or dead) to be able to open distant wormholes using Isogen-5, but needed the Sleepers' drone harvesting to be able to do it.

The Talocan remains on both sides of the wormhole wouldn't be unusual in this case. Since they would have been the same Race/Culture to open stargates and colonies on either side. The remnants of Talocan on the W-Space side would then be remnants of Milky-Way establishments.

My attempts on charting the J locus' with SDSS data may be more fruitful in drawing any of that to something more... interesting.

That's the best of my attempts to take your initial offering and drawing solid parallels.

Where I am.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#79 - 2012-10-19 15:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Nope, Enheduanna is definately relevent, as it is of Akkadian\Sumerian and Zoroastrian origin, the religion Amarr religion is based upon.. And also relevent to Carl Jung's philosophy, via Zarathustra.. The planet on which H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy novel takes place.. Lots of "nods" to sci fi classics in Eve..

Anu is the God of beginnings, who correlates to Janus, father of Jove..

Thank you for taking the time to come to an independantly derived possibility that reflects my own..

I do stress possibility, but, it is nice to know it is feasibly arrived at by others through independant perusal of the available "facts"..

Another tangent worth looking at is the Sefrim of Amarr, the Takmahl, and the timeline of what we know of the Jovian Empires and the Amarr Empire via Ametat and Avetat and the Takmahl possibly being the Sefrim and going into hiding instead of leaving the planet, leading to the Sani Sabik and interesting evolutions in Amarr society. And also, yes, I am implying the Takmahl may have been Jovians too.. Interesting to note is the similarity between the Talocan Cosmos site and the Takmahl Cosmos site.. Shaktapeeth.. Or more precisely, in regards to Cosmos, Adi Shakta Pithas..

Quote:
Unsullied : The Unsullied are the group of Jovians that have rejected further genetic experiments and instead adopt conventional methods to deal with sickness and old age. Genetic engineering has through the centuries transformed Jovian society in every aspect imaginable. Many Jovians, denoted as Unsullied, believe that enough has been done. They are advocates of cyber-implants and want to use machines instead of genes in the search for better life.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Shani Zera
Jin-Mei Mercantile Club
#80 - 2012-10-19 17:16:54 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Looking at the Jovian Ancestries ::

Quote:
The Stasis People are Jovians that voluntarily go into cryo-stasis for decades or centuries, hoping that when they wake a bright and better world will greet them. For many Jovians their race is in the twilight of their greatness. Ever since the fall of the first empire the Jovian society have been in a slow, steady decline. Most blame the Jovian Disease for this and believe that the Jovians can only hope to turn the tide once a cure for the disease has been found.


Sleepers?

It doesn't quite fit the Sleeper profile, but it speaks to an ability that may have been lost along the way.


I'd agree, and I've gone on the record quietly, some time ago, saying that our understanding of the Jove bloodlines isn't fully formed and in need of a somewhat drastic expansion/re-assessment.

Note that I don't just mean we need to re-assess the relations of the Sleepers to the Stasis People faction of the Jove, and consider if they're the same thing, but we may need to re-assess just what it was the latter actually evolved into from that early definition we've known for years (that quoted article above is "as old as EVE itself" to use Dropbear's words...like a lot of early canon, many details of the Jove faction was defined before there was even a game client.)

Why do I say that? Because there's something to support your theory, Blood, but it also speaks to a profound evolution of the Stasis People's aims:

At the very end of the Jita 4-4 chronicle the protagonist is talking about the possibility of, instead of transferring your infomorphic "self" between clones, maybe just staying there, in that "space between" them. Kind of like just information floating around in space. They ask:

Quote:
"What if we just stayed out there and never returned to another clone?

What if we could live out there, and build a bright and better world in that space between?"


Bright and better world? There's simply no way that choice of phrase is a coincidence. The coincidence not obvious here? Well, the same phrase appears above in the quote about Stasis People. It describes how their function is basically to sit and wait it out in stasis for a bright and better world to fall in their lap.

Yet this person has a completely different theory, perhaps: What if they weren't waiting, but actively building something in their informophic state?

Looking at what you see in Sleeper space, it's pretty apparent that if the Sleepers really are/were the Stasis People, then they weren't idly waiting around for solutions.

Bloodpetal wrote:
That's the best of my attempts to take your initial offering and drawing solid parallels.


Looks pretty good to me. Hope my little contribution helps.