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What is the real problem people have with High Sec?
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#221 - 2012-10-18 21:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Marlona Sky wrote:
You have to think about it from their point of view. Why mine when you can make vastly more money doing something else like run a sanctum and send a jump freighter to Jita to grab the minerals you need in far less time and still have money left over to stuff down the g-string of the local Gallente stripper. Meanwhile the poor miner is still trying to get a fraction of the miners needed for the project.

Which option sounds more fun to you?


Oh, i understand all that. Just trying to make the distinction between them being forced to get their ore from a hisec hub and it just being more convenient for them to do so.

I think in many ways the ease at which jump freighters can ferry things from hisec to 0.0 screws up the game.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#222 - 2012-10-18 21:12:09 UTC
Hi sec to me represents to EvE what Trammel represented to Ultima Online. An area of extreme relative safety with no discernible danger to be wary of. It throws the entire game spectrum out of whack.

Imagine if there was just low sec and null sec.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#223 - 2012-10-18 21:13:24 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Oh, i understand all that. Just trying to make the distinction between them being forced to get their ore from a hisec hub and it just being more convenient for them to do so.

I think in many ways the ease at which jump freighters can ferry things from hisec to 0.0 screws up the game.


Because the alternative is simply burnout express?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2012-10-18 21:15:50 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:

Oh, i understand all that. Just trying to make the distinction between them being forced to get their ore from a hisec hub and it just being more convenient for them to do so.

I think in many ways the ease at which jump freighters can ferry things from hisec to 0.0 screws up the game.

It's more then convenient, it's necessary. Because if you don't, and instead try to 'build your own ships for free' in 0.0 or whatever, you are quickly outgunned and crushed and sent back to highsec by alliances who adopt the more efficient practice of buying their minerals/goods in highsec and shipping them down.

Jump freighters merely exacerbate an already existing problem, that being the gross inequity of highsec vs. nullsec industrial capacity.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-10-18 21:17:18 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Jump freighters merely exacerbate an already existing problem, that being the gross inequity of highsec vs. nullsec industrial capacity.


"Guys, people run jump freighters loaded with stuff from hisec to nullsec because 0.0 industry is crap, what should CCP do? Nerf jump freighters, of course"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-10-18 21:17:56 UTC
Activities in null:
1. Make out with January Playboy model.
2. Make out with February Playboy model.
3. Make out with March Playboy model.
4. Make out with April Playboy model.
5. Make out with May Playboy model.
6. Make out with June Playboy model.
7. Make out with July Playboy model.
8. Make out with August Playboy model.
9. Make out with September Playboy model.
10. Make out with October Playboy model.
11. Make out with November Playboy model.
12. Make out with December Playboy model.
13. Make out with the business and of a 12 gauge shotgun. (mining)

Pick one.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2012-10-18 21:18:37 UTC
csm 5 at its finest

csm 7 is close, with Seleene going on about "all i care about industry is that it gives me the ships i need to pew pew" *discusses CSM protocol for 40 pages*
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#228 - 2012-10-18 21:18:43 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

We have people here going on about how nullsec industry is fine because paying 23 bil for a profoundly inferior version of what highseccers get for free in every system is balanced in their mind.

Let's not play the "it's not fair" otherwise I'm going to ask for ihubs in highsec systems. There are many benefits in 0.0 we do not have.

And anyway, as I said, even when it comes to manufacturing etc, I, as do many, many others, STILL do my work at a POS. I've never used stations in high or 0.0 unless I had something small and quick and slot was free.

In fact, I started life in 0.0 in an alliance that didn't even have a station and we all did just fine. My next stint at manufacturing was building a DS manu POS in 0.4 lowsec, a second one in 0.2, mining and building caps. Not at a station, at a damn POS in lowsec.

Maybe we need to take a little peek at 0.0 station taxes/fees as a possible disincentive.

I do recall spending a lot of coin to get a Rorqual in, multiple Hulks, putting together a heap of pilots as Indy Exec of a corp and then being told I couldn't have a refinery array. "Use the station" I was told. pfftt - 40% gone.

So what did I do. I jumped the Rorqual back to my private lowsec tower, took it to highsec to refine and jumped it back. A stupid and unneccessary inconvenience. It proved to be too risky and too much work because of alliance rules, not lack of infrastructure.

I make the call that some of you 0.0 indy's just want easymode and part of the problem is alliance rules.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2012-10-18 21:19:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Jump freighters merely exacerbate an already existing problem, that being the gross inequity of highsec vs. nullsec industrial capacity.


"Guys, people run jump freighters loaded with stuff from hisec to nullsec because 0.0 industry is crap, what should CCP do? Nerf jump freighters, of course"

Well, it is a totally backwards way of solving the capacity issue. You can't really complain about not having slots when you can't pull resources fast enough to fill the ones you have.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-10-18 21:20:01 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Let's not play the "it's not fair" otherwise I'm going to ask for ihubs in highsec systems. There are many benefits in 0.0 we do not have.


Except there are so many benefits of hisec that 0.0 will never have and you take for granted.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jim Era
#231 - 2012-10-18 21:21:20 UTC
Andski wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Let's not play the "it's not fair" otherwise I'm going to ask for ihubs in highsec systems. There are many benefits in 0.0 we do not have.


Except there are so many benefits of hisec that 0.0 will never have and you take for granted.


If you want to live in hi-sec, you are more than welcome to join us.
Anyone is welcome here.
Because this is a sandbox, do whatever you want :D

Wat™
Fatgai Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#232 - 2012-10-18 21:21:21 UTC
Alexa Coates wrote:
the real problem is all the assholes in low/null chased everyone out so now they're whining and crying to have everyone forced into low/null so they can shoot them.


Well said, my good sir
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-10-18 21:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Jim Era wrote:
Andski wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Let's not play the "it's not fair" otherwise I'm going to ask for ihubs in highsec systems. There are many benefits in 0.0 we do not have.


Except there are so many benefits of hisec that 0.0 will never have and you take for granted.


If you want to live in hi-sec, you are more than welcome to join us.

they did like years ago man, try to keep up with this thread
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-10-18 21:23:26 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Activities in null:
1. Make out with January Playboy model.
2. Make out with February Playboy model.
3. Make out with March Playboy model.
4. Make out with April Playboy model.
5. Make out with May Playboy model.
6. Make out with June Playboy model.
7. Make out with July Playboy model.
8. Make out with August Playboy model.
9. Make out with September Playboy model.
10. Make out with October Playboy model.
11. Make out with November Playboy model.
12. Make out with December Playboy model.
13. Make out with the business and of a 12 gauge shotgun. (mining)

Pick one.

I'll need you to link pictures of 1-12 in order to make an informed decision.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2012-10-18 21:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

We have people here going on about how nullsec industry is fine because paying 23 bil for a profoundly inferior version of what highseccers get for free in every system is balanced in their mind.

Let's not play the "it's not fair" otherwise I'm going to ask for ihubs in highsec systems. There are many benefits in 0.0 we do not have.

you already have them, they are called 'level 4 missions' and not only are they deployed, maintained and defended for free, they are infinite in supply (as opposed to ihub-generated anomalies which can only support a handful of users per system).

hth
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#236 - 2012-10-18 21:26:18 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You have to think about it from their point of view. Why mine when you can make vastly more money doing something else like run a sanctum and send a jump freighter to Jita to grab the minerals you need in far less time and still have money left over to stuff down the g-string of the local Gallente stripper. Meanwhile the poor miner is still trying to get a fraction of the miners needed for the project.

Which option sounds more fun to you?


Oh, i understand all that. Just trying to make the distinction between them being forced to get their ore from a hisec hub and it just being more convenient for them to do so.

I think in many ways the ease at which jump freighters can ferry things from hisec to 0.0 screws up the game.

They need to take a serious peek at refinery arrays first and foremost.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Jim Era
#237 - 2012-10-18 21:30:10 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

they did like years ago man, try to keep up with this thread


I am just coming here because it seems to be the only thread moving.
I could care less what happens, if bad **** happens then I'll leave EVE.
If good stuff happens I probably won't notice and continue to play.
I'm just randomly posting based on the 2-3 replies above me.

Wat™
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#238 - 2012-10-18 21:33:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Oh, i understand all that. Just trying to make the distinction between them being forced to get their ore from a hisec hub and it just being more convenient for them to do so.

I think in many ways the ease at which jump freighters can ferry things from hisec to 0.0 screws up the game.


Because the alternative is simply burnout express?


I still like mining a lot after years of it Oops It's a bit like fishing to me.

Have L4s down to a science and could make better isk doing them, but i still prefer to mine these days. Even when i've lived in 0.0 i mined.

I know i can't be alone on that, and if it wasn't so easy to just get minerals and things from hisec players like me would have more of a place in 0.0. Giant industrial alliances would probably pop up to supply people in 0.0, which would make the game that much more interesting.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#239 - 2012-10-18 21:35:07 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Giant industrial alliances would probably pop up to supply people in 0.0, which would make the game that much more interesting.


Carebear alliances tend to be the ones that end up as target practice if not steamrolled out of 0.0 entirely.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#240 - 2012-10-18 21:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Andski wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Giant industrial alliances would probably pop up to supply people in 0.0, which would make the game that much more interesting.


Carebear alliances tend to be the ones that end up as target practice if not steamrolled out of 0.0 entirely.


If they want to do the mining and manufacturing themselves that would be a good idea. Otherwise it's not.

If people couldn't just pick stuff up from hisec with relative ease it would give the industrial alliances more pull. They might even end up running things in 0.0.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi