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The difference between PVP/PVE fits

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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#21 - 2012-10-18 18:22:35 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
I believe CCP are making changes to close the gap between PvP and PvE fittings. I'm not sure what changes they are planning exactly.

percentage based shield/armor boosters probably? idk.

Maybe if they decided they made a mistake with ASBs and decided to phase them out.

Oh god.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#22 - 2012-10-18 18:57:15 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Smart player uses local.

It's super effective!

Not really, have fun leaving the mission every 5 seconds because some guy decided to pass through and you have no idea if he's friendly or hostile >_>


Or, you could bring a friend in a support ship (Noctis/Recon) that will keep an eye out for combat probes.

EvE in general needs to feel more like "wilderness" than the empty corner of a large city park. CCP needs to require more non combat activity and less direct fighting in order to survive.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#23 - 2012-10-18 19:14:17 UTC
You seem to not understand what I meant by "Why are PVE and PVP ships different".
I was asking why was this done in the first place.
Why not make PVE enemies fewer but stronger to be like PVP?
It would seem like the best thing to do from the start.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Kryxal
Wing Born Echos
#24 - 2012-10-18 19:21:14 UTC
"Fewer but stronger" wouldn't do it, unless they did enough more DPS that you couldn't rep through it, and took enough less DPS that you could kill them first anyway. It would turn into 2-minute combat portions of missions...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-10-18 19:23:37 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
But still the OP has a very valid point.

For starters it would be very nice if all npcs did omni-damage, so players would actually need to fit a tank that would be at least somewhat useful in pvp.

That's seen too general, because not all of COMBAT (which is a subset of PvP!) is the same
and not everybody needs to omnitank ... like when somebody's specifically seeking out solos
against, for example, amarrian ships with a high probability of having lasers fitted.

Furthermore ... giving all NPCs omnidamage-ouput,
although indeed closer to actual fights, (i don't want to seem to deny this)
on the other hand removes practical experience regarding resistances.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-18 19:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
PVE fitts are designed for Tank.

PvP fits are all gank.

Or lets put it a different way.
You fit a PVE ship to tank Battleships, Cruisers etc so that you can take them out one a 2 at a time.
Which means you have to have a cap as well to support it.
Basically it a a rather relaxed play style.
Your expect to be in combat for 15 to 20 minutes.
Survivability is primary concern.
Solo Combat.

PvP ships are all designed around how much DPS can I get a on a single target and I will fit a basic tank but nothing fancy.
PvP ships expect to be in combats for one to 2 minutes tops (there are exceptions) so it is kill fast and move on.
Survivability is secondary.
IF you are going against multiple reds you bring friends.
Group Combat.

The fitting will never be the same, with some exceptions.
At least not until CCP forces players into Group PVE combat, which does exist but not across the board.
Which also isn't very practical.

Last item.
NPC's hit for less damage cause the tanks on the ships are well questionable, or a pure tank ship will pretty much always lose to a gank ship, so NPC's do less damage so that a PVE playstyle can remain.
Several years ago CCP did play with the idea of give the ships a real tank so that there would be no difference between a PVP and PVE fit. (it was on the test serve for a bit)
But the players complained it would slow down the game.
Fights would last too long and it would be possible to have a stalemate or a 10 minute battle.
The players said no they wanted a quick instant gratification play style so CCP backed off the whole idea.

And that is why we have what we have today.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#27 - 2012-10-18 20:25:15 UTC
You can't really use a PvP loadout in a solo PvE environment; you can have the largest buffer in the world, but unless you just drove a super into a L4 it's still going to get chewed away pretty quickly.

You can of course add in double logistics, dedicated ewar etc, but then you're left with a situation where PvE cannot be done solo anymore, and while I appreciate that it's a MMO it has to be said that being constantly reliant on larger groups, many of whom have other things they want to do, would take away some of the enjoyment from the game for a lot of players, IMO, where people just want to go out and rat for an hour or two, without it being a big logistical challenge.

Internet Spreadsheets Online can do without becoming even more like Internet Calendars.
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