EVE Fiction

Not trying to be argumentative, but, where exactly is your source for the New Eden cluster being called Anoikis. KSpace, I have seen.. I understand the symbology you relate, I have just never seen such a source in the canon. Wormhole space has been called Anoikis in the fiction, but, where did you get the allusion to New Eden as Anoikis? The belief that the Yan Jungs built the gate is just that, a personal belief..

And where did you find the evidence of Jamyl's cloning resulting in a split psyche, as opposed to an Enheduanni introduced AI? I have never seen any source relate to Jamyl's cloning, apart from hints in the Immensea chronicle..

Wormhole space is denoted by J locus, only two designations appear in the first two spaces of the locus, J1 and J2, there are no higher designations. Take that with the known Jovian Empires and it seems likely that wormhole space was once part of the Jovian Empires.. But, that is, again, a belief only..

Bit of a stretch, but, I'll give it a good possibility... Not completely convinced, though.. the key words to me seem to be "by capsuleers".. Unless you are saying capsuleer tech is far older than our presence in New Eden..?

Programmed cell death also seems to have a strong relation to what was forced upon the Jove by the Enheduanni.. In the wormhole systems.. And thus it's possible Jovian origin.. Do you know anything about real life conspiracy theory of the Illuminati? And what the bricks in the pyramid represent? People, and corporations.. Cells in an engineered societal structure..

Well, what I'm trying to say is that the Wormhole Systems are "Anoikis", and if we're the main body of the "Anoikis", then by Extension the wormhole we came through was the main body, and we're in Anoikis as well.

And if the word is "Jovian" in Origin, we came through a wormhole as well. Which would by extension have been "Anoikis". Really, the point is that we're all detached from the main body.

I am not really disputing the links, I simply fail to see the "end game" you seem to arrive at from them. Who do you think this mysterious other force that you imply is out there pulling the strings is? The Talocans society appears older than the Sleepers society. It is pretty much established that they could have been the original explorers to New Eden. As hinted in 514 chron, they were here, likely, before the Eve Gates were built. There is a harmony between Sleeper (whom we know to be Jovians) technology and Talocan technology. This suggests a common heritage.

Many have said the Enheduanni, "left" to avoid the Jove, who they were also related to. According to Templar One, anyway.. Why not the simplest explaination that the Talocan of wormhole space and those in New Eden arrived via different methods? Those in New Eden being the early Jovians, who came through Eve, who lacked some of the acquired astronautical expertise of the explorer branch of their race from Anoikis, perhaps the Enheduanni? And the wormhole space Talocans arrived along the superbubble highways they may have created at an earlier period in time?

Someone had to build the gate that was on this side of the Eve wormhole..

While the Eve wormhole certainly provided a quick travel method between the "old" and "new" world, once the infrastructure had been built along the slow boat method, what precludes the Enheduanni or the Jove from going "home" the old fashioned way? Other than maybe the Seylinn event destroying their fuel caches, which is a very recent event, hardly an explaination for historical preclusions..

And a final question, if your willing? Who do you think Dagon was turned over to at the end of the Sister's arc?

The broken down nature of Talocan structures across the cluster and in wormhole space suggest the Talocan structures are older than Sleeper structures. The Minmatar retain racial memories of the Sleepers, suggesting their migration into wormhole space to be long after the Talocan, who are dated to have been around at the time of the Eve Gate migration, also concurrent with the Yan Jungs.

The migration into New Eden was quick, very quick, when you take into account the long periods it would take to build stargates between the systems. Unless that infrastructure was already there for the colonists. Even with Jump Drives, you need a Cynosural Field generated, so someone had to slowboat there in the first place. So, the entire cluster seems to have been slowboated in less than 70 years? It is only 28 years from the first explorer through the Eve Gate to the discovery of Pator.

The Sleepers also, as I said, present "updated" models of Talocan structures in wormhole space, again suggesting the Talocans were there before the Sleeper migration into wormhole space, at the least, concurrent to the Eve Gate being open.

Someone posted a Templar One spoiler thread here that said the Enheduanni fled the constant pestering of the Jove about a cure for their disease, and that some Jovians suspected the Enheduanni of perpetrating the Jovian disease upon them as a method of control. It was also said that both the Jove and the Enheduanni sprang from the Architects race. Jamyl Sarum says in 514 that the Sleeper race predates the Eve Gate, again, alluding to the Sleepers being Architect stock. Given that an architect is a design engineer, I think it safe to assume they built said infrastructure in New Eden. Though, I could be wrong. They are certainly the builders of the Construct in which the Sleepers reside, also related in the spoiler thread.

The Talocan as presented in Cosmos seem to lack the astronautical engineering specialization displayed by those in wormhole space. Instead displaying a mastery of Spatial Manipulation and Hypereuclidean Mathematics.

The events in Theodicy, actually, take place approximately 135 years ago. I have no good guess at when the supposed exodus of the Enheduanni took place, as it was not expressed in the spoiler thread and I have not read any Eve novels. My knowledge of these events is second hand.

There is one damaged Sleeper structure in wormhole space, along with the Ruins of Enclave Cohort 27 that expresses it's destruction in hundreds of years, not thousands. Suggesting a relatively recent conflict transpired there. Between whom, I can only surmise... Certainly not the Sleepers and Talocan, though..

Dagan is the likely source of the override code given to the Blood Raiders to retrieve Jamyl's superweapon. He is a SoCT member who is handed over to a Mobile Rogue Drone Construct at the end of the Sister's arc with representatives of all four Empire's present at the exchange. The Rogue Drone Construct displays the ability to "translocate", a skill also attributed to the Enheduanni by the Jovian, Grious..

Much of this information is rehashed points I have supported in links spread over years across this forum, meant to clarify and make sense of what I already do know. As you said, not gonna do all the work for ya..

Also worth noting about the SoE arc, it begins with the investigation of a Tempest that has been ripped apart by an explosion, one caused by an unknown isotope that was contained in it's hold. It is surrounded by shattered Amarrian ships and the entire arc centers around the Sister's investigation into what happened. The answer is never revealed to the capsuleer participating.

But, it seems pretty clear it relates to Isogen 5... Especially considering the massive Geodes that abound in the missions, some showing orange crystals in them, some showing blue crystals in them..

That's another brilliant thing about linking information from the storyline/EVElopedia onto the forum, it shows all the facets again. I'd missed this completely.

The ability to manipulate space, and "Hypereuclidean Mathematis" - are 2 things that would be VERY VERY useful if you wanted to travel long distances, lets say using wormholes and multi-dimensional modes of travel. Hence expert navigators... Not necessarily needing "conventional" travel methods to do so. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=30507




Well, on one hand you're saying the Talocan are older, but on the other hand you're saying Sleepers are an Architect race that laid down the infrastructure in the New Eden cluster. But the Talocan came after them into the cluster through the wormhole?

I think you're mixing things up. First, we have to agree all the races are essentially human. Source below.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sleepers


Now, some of them are originated from the "Terrans", while Takhmal originated from Amarrian origins relatively recently.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Terran

Any structures from the EVE Gate on this side didn't have to be built for them to come through. It could have been built after they came through the gate to secure the Wormhole and make it "safer" to go through.

So.

The Yan Jung are the only race specifically stated to have immigrated through the wormhole due to a mission agent who is an archaeologist saying so... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sebast_Mathon

The Sleepers and Talocan are the bigger question mark as to "when"... along with the Jove, the Talocan, Sleepers and Yan could have co-existed while the current races "rebuilt". We have no knowledge of any humans existing in the cluster before the New Eden immigration. If you don't accept this as common fact, then we'll always disagree on something fundamental.

The Joves original settling is where the Sansha currently are, in Curse to the SouthEast. Talocan near Caldari space, Yan Jung in Deltole bear the Gallente-Minmatar border, and Sleepers in Minmatar space.

The Talocan would have probably suffered the least from the disconnection, since they were most likely to have maintained the original Stargates, and also have plenty of mentions of self-sustaining ships. Having access to all the gates and being able to travel New Eden, would have made them pretty tough to take down their society first. Also, this would coincide with your analysis that they are the "oldest" - meaning they were able to travel and lay infrastructure before others. I won't touch the Anoikis wormholes at the moment in this analysis.

The Yan Jung were probably isolating themselves, depending on how many years they survived after the fall of the Gate. Since we have heard little to nothing about them really, impossible to say for sure.

Back to the interesting one, we have the Sleepers. If they had been developing their technology separate from the Talocan as they were trying to recover, then they would have been in a good position to follow up on the progress of the Talocan. But, they could have grown side by side as well with the Talocan after a period of time.

If you want to read some Dev Bread crumbs on the matter : http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1314015

The Jovians are the best at determining the time line. This presented for reference :: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Jovian_Empires

So, their first empire lasted 9000 years shortly after the collapse.
The 2nd lasted about 2500 years.
The 3rd Empire is in the North as we know it and has lasted 500 years.

In the first Empire :: The previously mentioned Jovian poem describes this state as the Jovians having the power to "bent stars to their will" and their "reach was infinite".[3]

So from 8100 to around 17000 the 1st Jove Empire was doing well.

The 2nd happens around 1900-2200 or so.

And the 3rd starts just as the current Empires reform together and start to get into space, as it's 500 years old and the SOCT is formed around 300 years ago in AD 23044, so another 200 years lands us at

AD 22794
First contact between the Gallente and the Intaki
AD 22809
First contact between the Gallente and the Mannar

Around this time the Jove seem to reform their empire.

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So, where do the Talocan and Sleepers fit into this? Are they living along side the 1st Jovian Empire when they were at their strongest? Are they rebuilt and exploring by the time the 2nd empire is well underway?

Why are you talking about this?

I'm not berating you. Seriously?


I just stated that's the only hard evidence there is. We really don't know much more about the ancient races than they're descended from the people who came from the wormhole.

That's as vague as it gets really.

I work on as little conjecture as possible. Sometimes conjecture is needed to get to a position that is supported by other evidence, but that doesn't mean to fabricate whole elements just to suit an argument with no goal.

So, I'm berating? Well, I guess I'll leave this convo then. Didn't mean to offend you.