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Crime & Punishment

 
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Dec Shield - End of the Second Era

First post First post
Author
De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#201 - 2012-10-18 14:12:36 UTC
Isana Tori wrote:
Kal Arkhenty wrote:
Isana Tori wrote:
My years of Spanish has taught me that all of the alts have the last name meaning "of Cartes".


Or, he attempted to look book-smart but failed to correctly spell "Descartes".


Of Scartes? That makes even less sense.



I am hoping you're joking, but just in case...Descartes is not a Spanish word, it's a name.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2012-10-18 14:19:17 UTC
Okay were bad at this whole war thing so can someone enlighten us:
http://i.imgur.com/7mkWm.jpg
Why are 2 week old bills still showing up.
Why do some wars cost 150m and 250m, despite the corps having only 1-2 members.
Why did the cost against ivy league spike from ~280m to >1b although they did not get any new members and are still at ~2.2k?
VegasMirage
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#203 - 2012-10-18 15:49:10 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Okay were bad at this whole war thing so can someone enlighten us:
http://i.imgur.com/7mkWm.jpg
Why are 2 week old bills still showing up.
Why do some wars cost 150m and 250m, despite the corps having only 1-2 members.
Why did the cost against ivy league spike from ~280m to >1b although they did not get any new members and are still at ~2.2k?


you wanna play with the BIGDOGS you gotta manup and break the bank

na, I'm joking it's funny tho how CCP like what's going on - especially the part about griefers losing isk Big smile

boomerang nerf, mining vessel buff, techmoon nerf, war dec (griefer isk drain) mechanic, "working as intended"

and now, Retribution filled with more "consequences for actions"

It all adds up to 1 thing imo, it will require you to pay more isk/rl currency to continue what you're doing now

Pay to Play, Pay to Win

no more games... it's real this time!!!

Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#204 - 2012-10-18 16:30:10 UTC
VegasMirage wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Okay were bad at this whole war thing so can someone enlighten us:
http://i.imgur.com/7mkWm.jpg
Why are 2 week old bills still showing up.
Why do some wars cost 150m and 250m, despite the corps having only 1-2 members.
Why did the cost against ivy league spike from ~280m to >1b although they did not get any new members and are still at ~2.2k?


you wanna play with the BIGDOGS you gotta manup and break the bank

na, I'm joking it's funny tho how CCP like what's going on - especially the part about griefers losing isk Big smile

boomerang nerf, mining vessel buff, techmoon nerf, war dec (griefer isk drain) mechanic, "working as intended"

and now, Retribution filled with more "consequences for actions"

It all adds up to 1 thing imo, it will require you to pay more isk/rl currency to continue what you're doing now

Pay to Play, Pay to Win


But why? There was nothing in the patchlogs according to my knowledge and Ivy league didnt get any new members. Last week it was 280m and now its >1b.
http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=73456
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#205 - 2012-10-18 17:17:52 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Okay were bad at this whole war thing so can someone enlighten us:
http://i.imgur.com/7mkWm.jpg
Why are 2 week old bills still showing up.
Why do some wars cost 150m and 250m, despite the corps having only 1-2 members.
Why did the cost against ivy league spike from ~280m to >1b although they did not get any new members and are still at ~2.2k?

This isn't a member count issue. This is because you have a number of outgoing wars that are not mutual, which inflates your wardec costs for additional wars. You have all these outgoing unmutual wars because corps that leave Dec Shield set all 120 wars unmutual, and then it takes a week for them to drop. So you have a continuous cycling of corps with unmutual wars against you, which keep the cost of declaring new wars much higher. And it appears to act as a multiplier against player count in the target to give you the new cost. Hence why Ivy League now costs you 1.4bil to wardec.

In short, if you ever want to declare war again it's going to cost you a ton of money
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2012-10-18 17:49:25 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Okay were bad at this whole war thing so can someone enlighten us:
http://i.imgur.com/7mkWm.jpg
Why are 2 week old bills still showing up.
Why do some wars cost 150m and 250m, despite the corps having only 1-2 members.
Why did the cost against ivy league spike from ~280m to >1b although they did not get any new members and are still at ~2.2k?

This isn't a member count issue. This is because you have a number of outgoing wars that are not mutual, which inflates your wardec costs for additional wars. You have all these outgoing unmutual wars because corps that leave Dec Shield set all 120 wars unmutual, and then it takes a week for them to drop. So you have a continuous cycling of corps with unmutual wars against you, which keep the cost of declaring new wars much higher. And it appears to act as a multiplier against player count in the target to give you the new cost. Hence why Ivy League now costs you 1.4bil to wardec.

In short, if you ever want to declare war again it's going to cost you a ton of money

I thought amount of wars you have only affects the warcost if you are a corporation, not an alliance? Can you back your theory up with a link to the patch notes where that is stated? Also, if you look at the screenshot, one of the wars is 250m against a 2 man corp and dated at 22.10. (10/22 for you murricans), while another is only 100m at 23.10. (23/10). That kind of counterproofs your theory already :S
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#207 - 2012-10-18 17:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: The Zerg Overmind
Karah Serrigan wrote:

I thought amount of wars you have only affects the warcost if you are a corporation, not an alliance? Can you back your theory up with a link to the patch notes where that is stated? Also, if you look at the screenshot, one of the wars is 250m against a 2 man corp and dated at 22.10. (10/22 for you murricans), while another is only 100m at 23.10. (23/10). That kind of counterproofs your theory already :S

I'm not 100% sure, because not many people have actually been in your situation before to test it with this much detail. But I believe the wars at the varying cost levels are due to however many corps were set unmutual at the time the bill was issued. So the 100mil wars you had 1 corp set at unmutual, 150 was 2 corps, 200 was 3 corps, 250 4 corps, etc. And the massive cost for Ivy League was a 5x multiplier (~280mil x5 = 1.375bil) because you had 5 unmutual wars at the time that bill came up.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=42269

CCP SoniClover wrote:
As before, the number of non-mutual wars the aggressor has declared acts as a multiplier (for each war). New wars are created now when a corporation leaves an alliance (to get rid of the dec shield exploit), but these new wars are not counted as cost multiplier

HAHAHA, so I just re-read that post. They got it wrong, again. These new wars most definitely ARE counted as a cost multiplier as you're seeing.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2012-10-18 18:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Karah Serrigan
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:

I thought amount of wars you have only affects the warcost if you are a corporation, not an alliance? Can you back your theory up with a link to the patch notes where that is stated? Also, if you look at the screenshot, one of the wars is 250m against a 2 man corp and dated at 22.10. (10/22 for you murricans), while another is only 100m at 23.10. (23/10). That kind of counterproofs your theory already :S

I'm not 100% sure, because not many people have actually been in your situation before to test it with this much detail. But I believe the wars at the varying cost levels are due to however many corps were set unmutual at the time the bill was issued. So the 100mil wars you had 1 corp set at unmutual, 150 was 2 corps, 200 was 3 corps, 250 4 corps, etc. And the massive cost for Ivy League was a 5x multiplier (~280mil x5 = 1.375bil) because you had 5 unmutual wars at the time that bill came up.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=42269

CCP SoniClover wrote:
As before, the number of non-mutual wars the aggressor has declared acts as a multiplier (for each war). New wars are created now when a corporation leaves an alliance (to get rid of the dec shield exploit), but these new wars are not counted as cost multiplier

HAHAHA, so I just re-read that post. They got it wrong, again. These new wars most definitely ARE counted as a cost multiplier as you're seeing.

Hmm this is very weird. Everything points towards your theory, but then again we already had wars for 150m before (6.10. and 8.10. on the screenshot) but this is the first time the Ivy league war has been multiplied. Then again our war with Sixty-three is mutual but still shows up as a bill. Also the bills AFTER ivy league (24.10. and 25.10.) didnt get multiplied either.
I conclude:
Jeez, CCP, this system is completely broken.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#209 - 2012-10-18 18:41:49 UTC
I'm gonna confirm that something weird is going on. The multipliers sometimes work like CCP said, and sometimes not. We don't have any normal outgoing wars this second, and when I checked the price of declaring one, it was 50 million. A week ago, with one outgoing war, the price was 400 million (against a 20-man corporation for the record). At both times, we had a bunch of Dec Shield wars up. I'll keep checking often to see if there's some kind of pattern.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#210 - 2012-10-18 18:51:17 UTC
The worst part of this is the eve mails every day.

The two seconds I was allowed in high sec I could not find any of these folks we are forever war decced against.

but god damn these eve mails.. lol
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#211 - 2012-10-18 19:42:51 UTC
Gritz1 wrote:
The worst part of this is the eve mails every day.

The two seconds I was allowed in high sec I could not find any of these folks we are forever war decced against.

but god damn these eve mails.. lol

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28049864.jpg

Here, it's about time I boot a few more corps to generate some more mails, please enjoy them
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#212 - 2012-10-18 20:49:39 UTC
Hooray! Thank you for supplying forever free random War Targets! Pirate *Applaudes*

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 

VegasMirage
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#213 - 2012-10-18 20:52:35 UTC
Cordo Draken wrote:
Hooray! Thank you for supplying forever free random War Targets! Pirate *Applaudes*


I know man, it's getting better and better imo

CCP should just remove all security space and make it all like null sec, then we could just shoot everybody - also remove the market who needs it.

no more games... it's real this time!!!

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#214 - 2012-10-18 21:47:56 UTC
Market can stay. Any type of decent moneymaking in high-sec has to go though. Leave missions up to level two, and maybe some tiny, low-end roids in the belts. Basically just enough to get noobies started out and accustomed to game mechanics.

It would be realistic, too. How stupid is it that such concentrated amounts of raw wealth exist in overpopulated mega-society home worlds? You'd imagine that those resources would be the first to get depleted as empires expanded outward.

Of course we all know what would happen to the sub count if CCP did that. The average contemporary gamer's wants are well-known nowadays.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#215 - 2012-10-18 22:46:01 UTC
ZO, This has been one of the most delicious 11 page threads I have read so far. You sir have my +1 anyday.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#216 - 2012-10-19 00:08:05 UTC
Current stats update:

Current permanent wardecs: 123
Current players trapped: 9329
Current corporations trapped: 274
Current alliances trapped: 23
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#217 - 2012-10-19 00:18:31 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Market can stay. Any type of decent moneymaking in high-sec has to go though. Leave missions up to level two, and maybe some tiny, low-end roids in the belts. Basically just enough to get noobies started out and accustomed to game mechanics.

It would be realistic, too. How stupid is it that such concentrated amounts of raw wealth exist in overpopulated mega-society home worlds? You'd imagine that those resources would be the first to get depleted as empires expanded outward.

Of course we all know what would happen to the sub count if CCP did that. The average contemporary gamer's wants are well-known nowadays.


Should I refer you to the British Empire? Which retained a great deal of money, because the people who leave for the frontier aren't the rich ones. Or perhaps the Roman Empire?

Empires traditionally funnel funds back to their home cities (worlds)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#218 - 2012-10-19 00:42:26 UTC
I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Yaaar's Revenge
Lightning Squad
#219 - 2012-10-19 06:53:36 UTC
I don't even...wait what? I don't know where I stand on this idea, but I'm pretty sure it's a terrible idea for terrible people. I just get that feeling

Follow me on Twitter @Yaaars_Revenge

Tolene
Perkone
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-10-19 10:54:29 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Current stats update:

Current permanent wardecs: 123
Current players trapped: 9329
Current corporations trapped: 274
Current alliances trapped: 23



All those wars and for the past month I haven't seen a single war target while in empire. BTW any new developments on the wardec mechanic despite dec shield being called an exploit? I'm out of the loop as I was bust in some null sec wars recently Big smile