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Intergalactic Summit

 
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A conversation regarding chains.

Author
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-10-03 13:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dilaro thagriin
Quote:
Captain Thagriin, if I followed your instructions I doubt I would have ANY problems making it back to the capsule. My housekeeper and research assistant are rather delicate little things and I doubt they've been exposed to much violence in their lives. I'm toughened from a childhood of farmwork and warehousing chores. I'm pretty sure I could take them AND the two young boys who are my domestic help.


You say you have personal slaves.
You treat slaves as property. Whether you think that negates their humanity is irrelevant, People are not property.

That makes you a holder.
Whether or not you believe that makes you a holder is irrelevant. You treat slaves as property.

You may notice the loop within those words. There is a simple method of breaking it. Release your slaves back into their own cultures and stop meddling in the affairs of those who are not of your empire.

As for the pain of my childhood, Due to the actions of your people, I live with that every day. There is not one waking moment I am not reminded that almost a quarter of the matari people still remain enslaved to your society, still suffer the indignities and horrors I suffered at Amarrian hands.

This is the last time you will interrupt my meditation. I have had enough of this.
Perhaps one day soon you will hear the footfalls of Cobalt Omega on your doorstep.
This tired old man will not be among them.

-Dilaro
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-10-03 13:23:32 UTC
Dilaro thagriin wrote:

Your people have NO RIGHT to state that our ways are wrong, no right to chain us and force us to follow your ways.
Such destruction of our culture is abhorrent to any civilised people, yet you continue the practice.


And yet, these words ring just as if an Amarr had spoken them when confronted by a warrior of the Tribal Liberation Crusade.

Granted, we do not try to convert the Amarr, no no, but surely piece by piece our people have attempted to tell them that their ways are wrong, and to destroy their culture.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-10-03 14:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Amaki Mai
Dilaro thagriin wrote:

You say you have personal slaves.
You treat slaves as property. Whether you think that negates their humanity is irrelevant, People are not property.

That makes you a holder.
Whether or not you believe that makes you a holder is irrelevant. You treat slaves as property.

You may notice the loop within those words. There is a simple method of breaking it. Release your slaves back into their own cultures and stop meddling in the affairs of those who are not of your empire.

As for the pain of my childhood, Due to the actions of your people, I live with that every day. There is not one waking moment I am not reminded that almost a quarter of the matari people still remain enslaved to your society, still suffer the indignities and horrors I suffered at Amarrian hands.

This is the last time you will interrupt my meditation. I have had enough of this.
Perhaps one day soon you will hear the footfalls of Cobalt Omega on your doorstep.
This tired old man will not be among them.

-Dilaro


You seem to know so much about me. You know how I treat my Slaves, you know I am a Holder, despite my assurances that myself, my family and the Kingdom are convinced I'm a Commoner. Did you know that I have no Matari slaves among my Household? One ethnic Caldari, one ethnic Gallente and two Ealur. Does this affect your opinion? It shouldn't, really, but I suppose it might.

That you endlessly repeat the same empty words is really only of consequence to me because I feel it is wasted breath that could be used to forge something worthwhile - but you are not interested in that. I shall treat you as you treat me and repeat the salient facts I am trying to make known amongst your people, once more, in the hope that someone interested will hear it.

The keeping of Slaves is fundamental to the Amarrian Faith. For so long as it continues to be so, you will not stop it. Appeals to beliefs that your people and mine do not share will not stop it. If insults and threats could stop it, the Republic would have already done so long ago.

The TAKING of Slaves from outside the Kingdom is something that can be stopped and, for the most part, already has. The vast majority of Slaves in the Kingdom are the descendants of Slaves with a very small minority being recently indentured criminals. A little cooperation between the Republic and the Kingdom could probably help make illegal Slave Trading a lot harder and less lucrative for a fraction of the effort expended on the proxy wars started by your illegal attacks.

And it all comes down to the Faith. You should know what you're asking for. You're not asking us to forgo luxury or an economic aid. You're not asking us to give up wealth or power. We don't keep Slaves because it makes us feel good about ourselves. It is a duty that is given to us by our God. You are telling us that in order to merely be hated by you for past crimes and incompatibilities, we must fail our God in the only task he has given us.

In other words, you're asking for our Souls. Do you think I fear that less than the nebulous threat of your bully boys?
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#44 - 2012-10-03 19:32:47 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I don't want to intervene in your conversation as it isn't my place, but I thought I would interject on this point. As it turns out, while there are indeed significant checks on clone neurological formation, there are no psychological checks, such as detection and/or prevention of psychopathy. The gamut of psychological disorders exist in the Capsuleer community, including our eponymous condition: Capsuleer's Dementia.


Thanks for the information; I think I've been paying for tests that clearly give me a false sense of security. Maybe I am a psychopath, I guess the adage "Ignorance is bliss" applies here. I'll continue to spout my rhetoric, but can be mindful that I'm probably not completely compos mentis.


I'm happy to see that you accept the realization about our state! We Capsuleers are extremely vulnerable to all sorts of nasty neurological and psychological problems - my own history is almost entirely a cautionary tale about being too cavalier. If I can suggest - add a psychologist and neurologist to you staff, and pay them well to monitor you and your clone line. If something begins to go amiss, they'll give you a checkpoint that can prevent irreparable damage.

Many profits to your venture.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#45 - 2012-10-03 20:06:15 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Astroyka wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I don't want to intervene in your conversation as it isn't my place, but I thought I would interject on this point. As it turns out, while there are indeed significant checks on clone neurological formation, there are no psychological checks, such as detection and/or prevention of psychopathy. The gamut of psychological disorders exist in the Capsuleer community, including our eponymous condition: Capsuleer's Dementia.


Thanks for the information; I think I've been paying for tests that clearly give me a false sense of security. Maybe I am a psychopath, I guess the adage "Ignorance is bliss" applies here. I'll continue to spout my rhetoric, but can be mindful that I'm probably not completely compos mentis.


I'm happy to see that you accept the realization about our state! We Capsuleers are extremely vulnerable to all sorts of nasty neurological and psychological problems - my own history is almost entirely a cautionary tale about being too cavalier. If I can suggest - add a psychologist and neurologist to you staff, and pay them well to monitor you and your clone line. If something begins to go amiss, they'll give you a checkpoint that can prevent irreparable damage.

Many profits to your venture.


I actually want to step in and second this recommendation. This should be a requirement for any capsuleer. Not optional, but an actual requirement for your licensing.

Why CONCORD does not scan for psychosis or mental imbalance before handing out licenses to megaton death machines is absolutely, and completely beyond me.
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#46 - 2012-10-03 20:12:55 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I actually want to step in and second this recommendation. This should be a requirement for any capsuleer. Not optional, but an actual requirement for your licensing.

Why CONCORD does not scan for psychosis or mental imbalance before handing out licenses to megaton death machines is absolutely, and completely beyond me.


I think the problem there is, and reading IGS for a while, there would be very few capsuleers left in New Eden if this was to be enforced. I can hear the slaver overseers rejoicing at such news.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#47 - 2012-10-03 20:31:43 UTC
Astroyka wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I actually want to step in and second this recommendation. This should be a requirement for any capsuleer. Not optional, but an actual requirement for your licensing.

Why CONCORD does not scan for psychosis or mental imbalance before handing out licenses to megaton death machines is absolutely, and completely beyond me.


I think the problem there is, and reading IGS for a while, there would be very few capsuleers left in New Eden if this was to be enforced. I can hear the slaver overseers rejoicing at such news.


I would be okay with a massively smaller number of capsuleers. I think we should probably assign these same psychologists to whomever decided it was a good idea to give We Psychopaths the megaton death machine licenses.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#48 - 2012-10-03 21:16:11 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I actually want to step in and second this recommendation. This should be a requirement for any capsuleer. Not optional, but an actual requirement for your licensing.

Why CONCORD does not scan for psychosis or mental imbalance before handing out licenses to megaton death machines is absolutely, and completely beyond me.

Thank you for the vote of confidence. I agree with you! I think the Cluster would be much improved with a bit more safeguards for our mental health. I'd just point out that bit errors in infomorph transcription is as much a factor in the various problems we suffer as Capsuleers as is our state on joining. Thus, we need more than just entrance screening, but ongoing examinations. I'm not sure why we don't do this now.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#49 - 2012-10-03 21:47:37 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I actually want to step in and second this recommendation. This should be a requirement for any capsuleer. Not optional, but an actual requirement for your licensing.

Why CONCORD does not scan for psychosis or mental imbalance before handing out licenses to megaton death machines is absolutely, and completely beyond me.


True.
Amusing to hear that from one of your kind, though.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-10-15 21:18:13 UTC
In the interest of peace we allow you thugs to fly that fleet around Caldari prime. If our government had anything resembling a spine, they'd establish a united front with the Matari tribes to blockade the trade routes through Everyshore and the Bleak Lands and choke out the alliance between the filthy slaver hives of the Amarr and you Caldari thugs. The Matar are long overdue for a little justice.
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-10-17 10:00:05 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
In the interest of peace we allow you thugs to fly that fleet around Caldari prime. If our government had anything resembling a spine, they'd establish a united front with the Matari tribes to blockade the trade routes through Everyshore and the Bleak Lands and choke out the alliance between the filthy slaver hives of the Amarr and you Caldari thugs. The Matar are long overdue for a little justice.


Every now and then it takes a frothing madman to remind me that there are worse things than a Cold War by proxy.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-10-17 17:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Amaki Mai wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
In the interest of peace we allow you thugs to fly that fleet around Caldari prime. If our government had anything resembling a spine, they'd establish a united front with the Matari tribes to blockade the trade routes through Everyshore and the Bleak Lands and choke out the alliance between the filthy slaver hives of the Amarr and you Caldari thugs. The Matar are long overdue for a little justice.


Every now and then it takes a frothing madman to remind me that there are worse things than a Cold War by proxy.


Like orbital bombardment with heavy particle cannon?

More than one of your countrymen have come onto these boards calling for paramilitary attack on Gallente civilian installations at Couster and Luminaire, all the while whining about the injustice of our culture. Now is not the time to cry uncle.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#53 - 2012-10-17 18:29:40 UTC
My cousin was hit by lightning once and survived. He now believes that God has blessed him and proves this by climbing naked to the top of the roof during thunder showers and reading various Scriptures.

I regard him as mentally imbalanced, and if you did the same, I'd probably tell you that you were imbalanced.

That my cousin does something insane doesn't mean that you doing the same thing makes you sane.

The difference, of course, is that my cousin is only a danger to himself while you're cheerfully talking about murder on a planetary scale.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-10-18 07:09:54 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Amaki Mai wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
In the interest of peace we allow you thugs to fly that fleet around Caldari prime. If our government had anything resembling a spine, they'd establish a united front with the Matari tribes to blockade the trade routes through Everyshore and the Bleak Lands and choke out the alliance between the filthy slaver hives of the Amarr and you Caldari thugs. The Matar are long overdue for a little justice.


Every now and then it takes a frothing madman to remind me that there are worse things than a Cold War by proxy.


Like orbital bombardment with heavy particle cannon?

More than one of your countrymen have come onto these boards calling for paramilitary attack on Gallente civilian installations at Couster and Luminaire, all the while whining about the injustice of our culture. Now is not the time to cry uncle.


Not that I condone any form of attack on a civilian target, but there is a big difference between a few fanatics with bombs and guns and, as you say, an orbital bombardment with heavy particle cannon.

And nobody was asking you to cry uncle, I was just asking you not to be so keen to embrace a general state of war between the Empires.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-10-18 18:41:10 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Amaki Mai wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
In the interest of peace we allow you thugs to fly that fleet around Caldari prime. If our government had anything resembling a spine, they'd establish a united front with the Matari tribes to blockade the trade routes through Everyshore and the Bleak Lands and choke out the alliance between the filthy slaver hives of the Amarr and you Caldari thugs. The Matar are long overdue for a little justice.


Every now and then it takes a frothing madman to remind me that there are worse things than a Cold War by proxy.


Like orbital bombardment with heavy particle cannon?

More than one of your countrymen have come onto these boards calling for paramilitary attack on Gallente civilian installations at Couster and Luminaire, all the while whining about the injustice of our culture. Now is not the time to cry uncle.


Not that I condone any form of attack on a civilian target, but there is a big difference between a few fanatics with bombs and guns and, as you say, an orbital bombardment with heavy particle cannon.

And nobody was asking you to cry uncle, I was just asking you not to be so keen to embrace a general state of war between the Empires.


Perhaps I was unclear. There was a female Caldari nationalist going by the moniker "Galaxy Pig" posting on Galnet calling for a militia of Caldari capsuleers to assemble attack the "Gallente problem at the source" starting with industrial academies and working their way out. This kind of naked aggression cannot be ignored, Amaki-haani. Like most Gallente, I am slow to anger, but I have my limits and they have been reached.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-10-18 20:12:30 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:

Perhaps I was unclear. There was a female Caldari nationalist going by the moniker "Galaxy Pig" posting on Galnet calling for a militia of Caldari capsuleers to assemble attack the "Gallente problem at the source" starting with industrial academies and working their way out. This kind of naked aggression cannot be ignored, Amaki-haani. Like most Gallente, I am slow to anger, but I have my limits and they have been reached.


You didn't have far to go, then.

Do you not understand? These are Capsuleers. What do you mean you can't ignore that sort of naked aggression? It is all around you up here. This is tame for a Capsuleer, remember that. If these are your limits, then I fear for you, poor kit'. Soon you'll be jumping at your own shadow.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-10-19 05:25:53 UTC
I belive the Caldari Nationalist in question was advocating attacking the academy systems for the training of Capsuleers. By this stage the pilots will already have had their first clone prepared and will, most likely, be flying Frigate class ships.

The loss of Gallente life would have been, give or take, zero.
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