EVE General Discussion

First proposal put forward in OP was



QFT


So does he want to smartbomb active ninja miners or the bots? And does he want active miners or bots to PRESENT themselves as "potential targets"?

Yep, OP is clearly and unequivocablly addressing the boredom of mining.

Here's MY read of the OP

ganker>> you should have risk for your reward
miner>> we do. we don't use tank.
ganker>> you should not be able to prevent a smartbombing run
miner>> sorry, we'll remove the cans.
ganker>> now present yourself ready to be asploded.
miner>> ok. errr... why?
ganker>> so that you can feel good about your profession.
ganker>> trust me, it's for YOUR benefit.
miner>> my hero... thx Darth.
miners>>Darth for CSM 9 \o/
miner 1>> o7 woot for Darth
miner 2>> o7, wow, he's cool
miner 3>> yay for Darth.
miner 4>> hey guys, this really is a cool game yeah?

A. So risk and reward should evenly scale?

B. So miners are bottom of the Industry Profession, therefore have the least reward?

C. Pirate styled players want more risk for Miners?

Something wrong with the forumla.

Now try something else. Blueprint research in Public high-sec stations. Public - but there are no names listed. So doing this is decently rewarded and has (wait for it) ZERO risk. (might get lucky - pilot might undock with a cash cow ready to be milked - but I dont know who target - because I can not see who's running the job in the first place). Tripling the value of BPO. I am all more risk - but how about those who actually get rewards bear risk?

Still can't get the logic after 32 pages that killing miners ad hoc is what they need to make their profession more valuable.

Sorta get the feeling we're supposed to be grateful but I just can't put my finger on it as to why that should be.

Perhaps non-miners should just, you know, **** off and stop worrying about it.

Successful miners would enjoy very lucrative profits and it would add excitement to mining.

Or challenge. Or risk.

However you prefer.

The truth is I'm really only trying to force them to practice safe mining techniques, which include aligning to tactical warp outs (preferably optimized along the arc of the asteroid belt) and paying attention.

And yes, I think the lure of ninja mining could stand a reasonable buff.

What's wrong with wanting to buff the profession of mining?

Can miners really say this is not devaluing their profession?

Programs like ISBoxer make this possible using "AFK" gameplay.

Also, in all likelihood there are secure containers anchored all around his fleet.

That's a smartbomb shield, and broken too. As I mentioned in the OP.

This should help clear it up.

The same can be said of forcing people from other sec areas into highsec via reducing highsec risk and allowing is reward to remain the same.

Maybe its easier to put this as a ratio of risk:reward.

Do you pick 1:5, 2:7, or 3:9?

That's an easy pick you choose highsec because you can make just as much as you can in other sec areas with the least amount of effort and the least amount of risk.

Highsec needs a risk increase or reward decrease.

The problems:

1) nobody other than CCP can distinguish AFK mining from botting. In fact, you can't even reliably distinguish ATK mining from AFK mining from botting. So the problem of botting is best left to Sreegs and company.

2) The really good miners pay enough attention to not let their rocks deplete, so that they'll regenerate instead of respawning. They farm asteroids. You can't do that without running a scanner and knowing the yield of your lasers. Most miners don't bother, but that's their loss. The attentive miners have a clear advantage in terms of resource gathering.

3) The difference between AFK missioning and AFK mining (in high sec, anyway) is that in missions the whole point is combat, even if it's against stupid NPCs, and each kill pays well in bounties. You're supposed to be manning your ship in combat. In mining, the rock isn't shooting at you and it isn't going anywhere, and the occasional puny rat shows up to plink at your shields, but there's nothing in the game to really get your attention and this is by design. The bounties on the rats are LOL, so that's hardly an exploit. Worse, in the particular COSMOS sites where the worst farming was occurring, the spawns were perpetual, so the AFK Domis were basically just printing ISK effortlessly, contrary to the intended design of the sites. At least asteroids pop, and there are no belts that are perpetually spawning asteroids that your barge auto-targets.

4) AFK- and semi-AFK mining does not devalue the mining profession. It is the mining profession, by and large. The guys who multibox 10-20 or more Hulks are actually doing what you want people to be doing, because by the time you have to manage that many ships mining is a full-time activity requiring dedicated attention. If you don't like this (I don't, but some people seem to) then it's incumbent on CCP to change the mining minigame to something that rewards attention as much or more than mulitboxing does now, or people will just ignore the content and continue to mine with "X of many" barges.

I'm not sure how much mining you've done, to be honest.



Sure. And if the pod doesn't warp back, it wasn't a bot. And if the woman drowns in the pond, she wasn't a witch.

If you want to bump or gank barges and drive risk up, just do it. You don't need botting as an alibi.



If they've played the basic game within EVE of "pick a quiet, out of the way system," there's no reward for the additional precautions. They're unnecessary 90% of the time, and that's enough for any barge you're mining in to pay for itself several times over. As it is, any miner smart enough to take a couple of basic precautions can, and does, factor the very occasional gank into his calculations as part of the cost of doing business.

Now if you're in wormhole space, you're mining aligned and hitting d-scan as if it were a Pez dispenser, because the alternative is O HAI MR. PROTEUS. The danger level there is high enough to warrant your undivided attention, but the rocks can be good enough to make that attention worthwhile.

If you get that balance wrong, you end up with the mining situation in low sec.



I'm not sure where I said that. I certainly didn't intend to say anything of the kind. The natural corrective to the amount of mining being done is the market price for ore. As the price goes down, you can either increase your yield, making up the lower per-unit price in volume, or count on the casuals to find something more lucrative to do, decreasing your competition (and the overall yield), or, in the worst case, throttle back your own production until the prices start to rise. If the prices rise too high, the casuals dust off their Retrievers and get back to mining, lowering the prices, and so on.

Ganks reduce yield (since ore hold contents don't drop, and of course the ship isn't mining after it's space dust) and increase cost for the miner, and there's the occasional WTF RAGEQUIT!!!1, but unless they're part of a large, concerted effort like Hulkageddon or the Ice Interdiction, I'm not sure how much of an effect they have on the overall market.

Hi,

This is exactly the type of topic we like to see here, please don't derail it by getting personal

Fly safe!