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[Proposal] Moon Mining, the 'Narwhal'
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Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#1 - 2012-10-15 20:18:19 UTC
To further the proposal for my SOV Redesign, I've decided to take a look at changes for the 'moon mining' gameplay. Currently, it is virtually non-existent and is simply a game of monopoly with moon mining.

SOV Redesign Thread

Option: Remove 'Moon Harvesting Array', bring in the 'Narwhal'.

Quote:

Narwhal

The Narwhal was developed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to the need for a new method of moon harvesting in uninhabited areas of space after the superannuated Moon Harvesting Array lacked connectivity options with newer deep space technology.

The primary mission of the Narwhal is to utilize the Moon Harvesting module to provide mobile mining for deep space capsuleers to support production and territorial control.

Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level
10% bonus to shield boost amount per level
20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role Bonuses:
99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
Can fit Industrial Stabilizer Reconfiguration modules


CPU: 800
Power Grid: 27,000
Calibration: 400

High Slots: 4
Mid Slots: 6
Low Slots: 3

Upgrade Hardpoints: 3
Rig Size: Large


Structure

Structure: 150,000 HP
Capacity: 30,000 m3
Drone Capacity: 200 m3
Drone Bandwidth: 125 Mbit/sec
Moon Mineral Hold Capacity: 30,000

Armor

Armor Hitpoints: 17,000 HP
Armor EM Resistance: 50 %
Armor Explosive Resistance: 10 %
Armor Kinetic Resistance: 35 %
Armor Thermal Resistance: 35 %

Shield

Shield Capacity: 55,000 HP
Shield EM Resistance: 0 %
Shield Explosive Resistance: 50 %
Shield Kinetic Resistance: 40 %
Shield Thermal Resistance: 20 %

Capacitor

Capacitor Capacity: 32,500 GJ

Targeting

Maximum Targeting Range: 200 km
Maxed Locked Targets: 6
Scan Resolution: 75 mm
Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 50 points
Signature Radius: 2500 m

Shared Facilities

Corporate Hanger Capacity: 20,000 m3
Ship Maintenance Bay Capacity: 500,000 m3

Jump Drive Systems

Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 95 %
Maximum Jump Range: 5 ly
Jump Drive Fuel Need: Oxygen Isotopes
Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 1000 units
Fuel Bay Capacity: 10,000 m3

Propulsion

Max Velocity: 60 m/sec
Ship Warp Speed: 1.40 AU/s


** NOTE: The Narwhal will utilize a Stabilizer Module to moon mine, similar to the Triage and Siege Modules. I haven't developed the Module information yet, but it would need to use one to balance the ship properly.

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Romvex
TURN LEFT
#2 - 2012-10-15 21:38:46 UTC
make it actually shaped like a narwhal, with a huge drill for boring into moons. do this and i'm happy ccp
Fillory
GunWorks
Red Coat Conspiracy
#3 - 2012-10-16 21:30:48 UTC
Dawn of the Narwhal! This would make moon mining a better industrial option. Bump!

Fillory - Queen of [s]the Red Coat Conspiracy[/s] a dead, formerly bad alliance
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#4 - 2012-10-16 23:21:26 UTC

Why do people put irrelevant ship statistics into these threads??? CCP won't use them, and it really distracts from the thread's purpose....

Your thread should be:

Proposal: Remove POS moon harvesting arrays. Instead create a deployable capital ship (like a Rorqual) to harvest moongoo from Moons...

We should do this because..... < insert link to mediocre Sov idea here >

Reason's people might be opposed:
It requires putting a CAPITAL ship in space, vulnerable to attack, to mine.... and it can't easily get safe, because it will be in a siege-like state....
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#5 - 2012-10-16 23:30:43 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Why do people put irrelevant ship statistics into these threads??? CCP won't use them, and it really distracts from the thread's purpose....

Your thread should be:

Proposal: Remove POS moon harvesting arrays. Instead create a deployable capital ship (like a Rorqual) to harvest moongoo from Moons...

We should do this because..... < insert link to mediocre Sov idea here >

Reason's people might be opposed:
It requires putting a CAPITAL ship in space, vulnerable to attack, to mine.... and it can't easily get safe, because it will be in a siege-like state....



Why do people complain about "not enough detail", then when plenty is provided, they complain about "too much detail".

You have no idea what CCP will and will not use.

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tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#6 - 2012-10-16 23:51:23 UTC
I think what this thread's problem is neither a lack of detail or too much, but detail in the wrong place. Yes, it is nice to have a vessel to take over moon goo collection duties, but we don't need information on how to tank the ship properly and instead how it is supposed to go about its business.

Instead, it should be 'design module' then 'design ship for module'.

since we already have the ship, I say "great!" and give you a +1, now get to work on the module. Will have to collect more than just 100 units per cycle since I doubt these beasts won't be out there 23.5/7 (unless you are goons)

Where the science gets done
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#7 - 2012-10-16 23:53:32 UTC
tankus2 wrote:
I think what this thread's problem is neither a lack of detail or too much, but detail in the wrong place. Yes, it is nice to have a vessel to take over moon goo collection duties, but we don't need information on how to tank the ship properly and instead how it is supposed to go about its business.

Instead, it should be 'design module' then 'design ship for module'.

since we already have the ship, I say "great!" and give you a +1, now get to work on the module. Will have to collect more than just 100 units per cycle since I doubt these beasts won't be out there 23.5/7 (unless you are goons)



I'll be designing my model for the module this week.

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#8 - 2012-10-17 00:36:27 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
tankus2 wrote:
I think what this thread's problem is neither a lack of detail or too much, but detail in the wrong place. Yes, it is nice to have a vessel to take over moon goo collection duties, but we don't need information on how to tank the ship properly and instead how it is supposed to go about its business.

Instead, it should be 'design module' then 'design ship for module'.

since we already have the ship, I say "great!" and give you a +1, now get to work on the module. Will have to collect more than just 100 units per cycle since I doubt these beasts won't be out there 23.5/7 (unless you are goons)



I'll be designing my model for the module this week.


I don't think we need to know exact details for the module.... if you include things like PG and CPU requirements for it, you are wasting your time....

Explain the goal of the module...
Explain the goal of the ship....
Explain details on how it functions...

I don't need the mining laser cycle time, but I need to know if this ship is meant to be in space 24/7. I don't need batch amount of an extraction cycle, but need to know if it is meant to operate for short periods of time and collect a days worth of goo? I don't need to know it's EHP, but I need to know how it stays safe? I don't need to know I need to know it's fuel type, but I need to know if it's a gate or jump capable ship. I don't need to know its drone bay size, but I need to know if multiple moongoo miners can be deployed at the same time on the same planet?? I don't need to know it's price or construction components, but I need to know why someone would extract common moongoo with it???

Some details are uselsss and unnecessary when you are expanding on an idea, while others are extremely important and relevlant... you tend to provide too much of the wrong type of details, and too few of the good stuff!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#9 - 2012-10-17 05:50:49 UTC
Just switch moon mining from POS modules to PI networks.

Problem solved.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Me ofcourse
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-10-17 06:34:59 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Just switch moon mining from POS modules to PI networks.

Problem solved.

shh, dont give away CCP's idea for Dust514
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#11 - 2012-10-17 06:48:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
tankus2 wrote:
I think what this thread's problem is neither a lack of detail or too much, but detail in the wrong place. Yes, it is nice to have a vessel to take over moon goo collection duties, but we don't need information on how to tank the ship properly and instead how it is supposed to go about its business.

Instead, it should be 'design module' then 'design ship for module'.

since we already have the ship, I say "great!" and give you a +1, now get to work on the module. Will have to collect more than just 100 units per cycle since I doubt these beasts won't be out there 23.5/7 (unless you are goons)



I'll be designing my model for the module this week.


I don't think we need to know exact details for the module.... if you include things like PG and CPU requirements for it, you are wasting your time....

Explain the goal of the module...
Explain the goal of the ship....
Explain details on how it functions...

I don't need the mining laser cycle time, but I need to know if this ship is meant to be in space 24/7. I don't need batch amount of an extraction cycle, but need to know if it is meant to operate for short periods of time and collect a days worth of goo? I don't need to know it's EHP, but I need to know how it stays safe? I don't need to know I need to know it's fuel type, but I need to know if it's a gate or jump capable ship. I don't need to know its drone bay size, but I need to know if multiple moongoo miners can be deployed at the same time on the same planet?? I don't need to know it's price or construction components, but I need to know why someone would extract common moongoo with it???

Some details are uselsss and unnecessary when you are expanding on an idea, while others are extremely important and relevlant... you tend to provide too much of the wrong type of details, and too few of the good stuff!


See, you don't know what you are talking about, and this fact is clearly why you aren't the type of innovative mind that develops interesting fleet compositions or fittings. This information is extremely important to the type of people who develop how to properly utilize different ships.

It isn't as easy as simply saying "You focus on irrelevant information" when the information I provide is considerably more important to the right people. I'm not interested in spoon feeding pubbies with just general information. You can't find anything wrong with the idea, so you just say it's crap and that it doesn't provide the info you want. Figure it out, scrub. This is a drawing board.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2012-10-17 21:22:16 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


I don't think we need to know exact details for the module.... if you include things like PG and CPU requirements for it, you are wasting your time....

Explain the goal of the module...
Explain the goal of the ship....
Explain details on how it functions...

I don't need the mining laser cycle time, but I need to know if this ship is meant to be in space 24/7. I don't need batch amount of an extraction cycle, but need to know if it is meant to operate for short periods of time and collect a days worth of goo? I don't need to know it's EHP, but I need to know how it stays safe? I don't need to know I need to know it's fuel type, but I need to know if it's a gate or jump capable ship. I don't need to know its drone bay size, but I need to know if multiple moongoo miners can be deployed at the same time on the same planet?? I don't need to know it's price or construction components, but I need to know why someone would extract common moongoo with it???

Some details are uselsss and unnecessary when you are expanding on an idea, while others are extremely important and relevlant... you tend to provide too much of the wrong type of details, and too few of the good stuff!


See, you don't know what you are talking about, and this fact is clearly why you aren't the type of innovative mind that develops interesting fleet compositions or fittings. This information is extremely important to the type of people who develop how to properly utilize different ships.

It isn't as easy as simply saying "You focus on irrelevant information" when the information I provide is considerably more important to the right people. I'm not interested in spoon feeding pubbies with just general information. You can't find anything wrong with the idea, so you just say it's crap and that it doesn't provide the info you want. Figure it out, scrub. This is a drawing board.


I'm sure you can find some "right people" to encourage you posting unimportant details, but anyone that thinks basic ship stats are "Considerably more important" than its new role, how it functions, and how it will alter the balance of moongoo materials is an irrelevant moron that will never have any influence in this game, unless they get a serious attitude change. You come across as an autistic child that can only focus on specific details while being completely oblivious to how it works in the larger scope of things. It's the new role that is important, and how that role modifies and/or fits into the game that is important... not the modified Rorqual stats you so proudly post. Your entire POST can be summed up in one relevant line:

I want to Replace Moon Harvesting Array with a Capital Mining Vessel.
--- With the potentially relevant clause: It uses a new siege-like module.... with functionality / purpose TBD...

And you really think I don't know what I'm talking about??? .... You provide IRRELEVANT details like ship HP, Shield Resistances, and warp speed, but you don't mention how it's supposed to be used, or deployed, or defended... You don't mention how this might alter Moongoo production, something that's extremely important to the construction of EVERY T2 MODULE/SHIP in the game...

You ignore the advice we give you, where we point out the IMPORTANT information we need to know.... and then you essentially call me simple minded, uninformed, and a scrub... You don't know me, my accomplishments (ingame and out), and your assumptions are ill-founded and baseless. So, quick FYI: I was giving your idea a chance by point out the information we need to know to properly evaluate your idea... but rather than provide that you resort to insulting me???

Here's why I vote no to your idea:

1.) You are dramatically altering Moon mining, an extremely important source of raw materials necessary to the production of all t2 items, and you don't address it. What's worse, I don't believe you have a clue about the scope of your changes, and are completely ignorant to how you are changing the entire eve economy.

2.) You're replacing a secure source of accruing important in-game raw materials with a completely insecure method (i actually don't mind this), but provide no real information on how this new extraction process works...

3.) You don't provide any limits on the extraction of resources with these ships. It could be balanced, but given your near-sightedness, I highly doubt it...

4.) You come across as obnoxious and unable to handle even helpful criticism. In EVERY one of my posts, I clearly stated what information I needed to know. Rather than provide it, expand on it, or respond to it, you essentially claimed you provided all the necessary and important information, and ignored what I asked for.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#13 - 2012-10-17 21:39:55 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


I don't think we need to know exact details for the module.... if you include things like PG and CPU requirements for it, you are wasting your time....

Explain the goal of the module...
Explain the goal of the ship....
Explain details on how it functions...

I don't need the mining laser cycle time, but I need to know if this ship is meant to be in space 24/7. I don't need batch amount of an extraction cycle, but need to know if it is meant to operate for short periods of time and collect a days worth of goo? I don't need to know it's EHP, but I need to know how it stays safe? I don't need to know I need to know it's fuel type, but I need to know if it's a gate or jump capable ship. I don't need to know its drone bay size, but I need to know if multiple moongoo miners can be deployed at the same time on the same planet?? I don't need to know it's price or construction components, but I need to know why someone would extract common moongoo with it???

Some details are uselsss and unnecessary when you are expanding on an idea, while others are extremely important and relevlant... you tend to provide too much of the wrong type of details, and too few of the good stuff!


See, you don't know what you are talking about, and this fact is clearly why you aren't the type of innovative mind that develops interesting fleet compositions or fittings. This information is extremely important to the type of people who develop how to properly utilize different ships.

It isn't as easy as simply saying "You focus on irrelevant information" when the information I provide is considerably more important to the right people. I'm not interested in spoon feeding pubbies with just general information. You can't find anything wrong with the idea, so you just say it's crap and that it doesn't provide the info you want. Figure it out, scrub. This is a drawing board.


I'm sure you can find some "right people" to encourage you posting unimportant details, but anyone that thinks basic ship stats are "Considerably more important" than its new role, how it functions, and how it will alter the balance of moongoo materials is an irrelevant moron that will never have any influence in this game, unless they get a serious attitude change. You come across as an autistic child that can only focus on specific details while being completely oblivious to how it works in the larger scope of things. It's the new role that is important, and how that role modifies and/or fits into the game that is important... not the modified Rorqual stats you so proudly post. Your entire POST can be summed up in one relevant line:

I want to Replace Moon Harvesting Array with a Capital Mining Vessel.
--- With the potentially relevant clause: It uses a new siege-like module.... with functionality / purpose TBD...

And you really think I don't know what I'm talking about??? .... You provide IRRELEVANT details like ship HP, Shield Resistances, and warp speed, but you don't mention how it's supposed to be used, or deployed, or defended... You don't mention how this might alter Moongoo production, something that's extremely important to the construction of EVERY T2 MODULE/SHIP in the game...

You ignore the advice we give you, where we point out the IMPORTANT information we need to know.... and then you essentially call me simple minded, uninformed, and a scrub... You don't know me, my accomplishments (ingame and out), and your assumptions are ill-founded and baseless. So, quick FYI: I was giving your idea a chance by point out the information we need to know to properly evaluate your idea... but rather than provide that you resort to insulting me???

Here's why I vote no to your idea:

1.) You are dramatically altering Moon mining, an extremely important source of raw materials necessary to the production of all t2 items, and you don't address it. What's worse, I don't believe you have a clue about the scope of your changes, and are completely ignorant to how you are changing the entire eve economy.

2.) You're replacing a secure source of accruing important in-game raw materials with a completely insecure method (i actually don't mind this), but provide no real information on how this new extraction process works...

3.) You don't provide any limits on the extraction of resources with these ships. It could be balanced, but given your near-sightedness, I highly doubt it...

4.) You come across as obnoxious and unable to handle even helpful criticism. In EVERY one of my posts, I clearly stated what information I needed to know. Rather than provide it, expand on it, or respond to it, you essentially claimed you provided all the necessary and important information, and ignored what I asked for.


Again, you want to be spoon fed and provide no content to better the idea. You simply want the OP to just answer all your questions like a week old reporter and provide no decent content or ideas of your own to better the proposal. Propose answers, be useful to a discussion on the idea, or move on.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-10-17 22:16:56 UTC
Guys, are you folowing up the CSM Ideas and whtat CCP publishes??? The moon mining will end in the next summer expansion, as replaced by planetary ring minning ...

Although the name is really nice. CCP could make a capital ship named like this for support ring mining...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2012-10-17 22:50:14 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Guys, are you folowing up the CSM Ideas and whtat CCP publishes??? The moon mining will end in the next summer expansion, as replaced by planetary ring minning ...

Although the name is really nice. CCP could make a capital ship named like this for support ring mining...


It was my understanding, from reading the CSM Ideas, that ring mining would compliment Moon mining, not eliminate it... Although I'll admit, I could be wrong...
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#16 - 2012-10-17 23:40:35 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Guys, are you folowing up the CSM Ideas and whtat CCP publishes??? The moon mining will end in the next summer expansion, as replaced by planetary ring minning ...

Although the name is really nice. CCP could make a capital ship named like this for support ring mining...


It was my understanding, from reading the CSM Ideas, that ring mining would compliment Moon mining, not eliminate it... Although I'll admit, I could be wrong...


Starts at page 45. "Replacement" was mentioned as the initial idea, but that nothing is certain and some change would happen Winter 2012. No telling if it will actually replace it, but possibly.

Quote:
Continuing on other future matters, ring mining. The basic idea is that it would be a group PvE
activity that allows players to gather moon materials – in the spirit of talking about the future,
without it being decided or set in stone, CCP Soundwave included the word “replacing”, i.e. the idea
of moving moon-goo entirely to the ring mining venue. The argument for this statement is that
moons are basically ATMs, you plant down a structure and receive money, an awful gameplay
mechanic.


http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf

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Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-10-17 23:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Guys, are you folowing up the CSM Ideas and whtat CCP publishes??? The moon mining will end in the next summer expansion, as replaced by planetary ring minning ...

Although the name is really nice. CCP could make a capital ship named like this for support ring mining...


It was my understanding, from reading the CSM Ideas, that ring mining would compliment Moon mining, not eliminate it... Although I'll admit, I could be wrong...


It was my understanding from the CSM minutes that this was all just a suggestion, exploration of possibilities. Not anything like a solid plan, and definitely not a commitment to anything. Yes, CCP finds some flaws in the moon mining mechanic, yes, they think that "ring mining" might be the new fancy word to maybe fix some of these flaws at some point. But there is nothing at all known about what, how, when, or even if at all this will happen.


Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Again, you want to be spoon fed and provide no content to better the idea. You simply want the OP to just answer all your questions like a week old reporter and provide no decent content or ideas of your own to better the proposal. Propose answers, be useful to a discussion on the idea, or move on.


You are the one proposing this idea. Without knowing the basic points of the idea, there is nothing to comment on. As someone who is quite heavily involved in moon mining myself, I would gladly comment - but I don't know what problem you're trying to solve, and I don't know what your solution is, other than it is maybe a ship that moves at 60m/s.

You are trying to sell us a painting by showing us a pretty empty frame and asking us to come up with the rest ourselves.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-22 03:46:42 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:


It was my understanding from the CSM minutes that this was all just a suggestion, exploration of possibilities. Not anything like a solid plan, and definitely not a commitment to anything. Yes, CCP finds some flaws in the moon mining mechanic, yes, they think that "ring mining" might be the new fancy word to maybe fix some of these flaws at some point. But there is nothing at all known about what, how, when, or even if at all this will happen.



It is not just the CSM... It is also what was said by the CCP CEO at fanfest... and all the devs.... and as said ... this things are in the script... it is not a matter of IF it is a matter of WHEN... they are just ballancing the game now becouse it is a priority but as soon as this things goes... there will come the POS REVAMP. The moon mining revamp, the tesselation graphic upgrade (maybe) a cloak hunter ship. and the rest of the SOON (TM) things...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system