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Unified Inventory feedback thread

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CCP Optimal
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2012-10-17 16:55:46 UTC
As promised, Team Game of Drones has been working hard to improve the inventory UI. Last time around we may have focused too much on trying to simplify the inventory in order to make it more accessible to new players, in some cases at the expense of making life harder for people with more complex usage patterns. So, it is only natural that for this release we’ve been focusing on making life easier for those who rely on more complex inventory setups to get their New Eden jobs done. Additionally we are throwing in healthy mix of tweaks, improvements, new features and bug fixes that we hope will benefit everyone. It is our goal that as of this release, the EVE inventory will remain simple for new users, but be configurable enough to meet the high demands veterans who want to get things done as fast as possible. To help us make sure that happens, please drop by our test server, Duality, which is going to be open from around noon Friday October 19th until the morning of Tuesday October 23rd and then tell us what you think.

Oh, yeah … here’s a list of some of the more prominent changes:

  • New “Inventory” group added to the EVE menu containing Inventory, Item Hangar, Ship Hangar, Corporate Hangar, Deliveries and Active Ship. You can then drag any or all of those buttons to the Neocom itself for one click access to your most used inventories.
  • Primary (the one opened up through ALT+C or Neocom shortcut) and secondary (the ones opened up through SHIFT+click and such) inventory window pattern has been cleared up so that it makes more sense. As a result, primary and secondary windows will behave exactly the same in almost all aspects, with only one major exception:
  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).
  • All windows will now persist all of their settings (not just some of them), based on what they represent. If you want to use the tree view for Corp Hangars but nothing else, you can configure it so.
  • The Active Ship Cargo inventory window will now follow the active ship around when switching.
  • The cargo button in the Ship HUD will now open said window instead of the primary inventory window.
  • New “Compact mode” for inventory windows, which hides EVERYTHING except for the items. That’s of course persisted as well per window type and is toggled through a button in the top-right corner.
  • Implemented scroll-on-drag-hover for the tree view (and in fact all scrolls in EVE).
  • Removed switch-between-inventories-on-drag-hover feature for tree view, so no more accidental switches.
  • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).
Matthew97
#2 - 2012-10-17 16:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthew97
*Insert OMG FIRST post here*



Looks promising, can't wait to get onto Dual to test them out :)


CCP Optimal wrote:

  • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).



    • So does this mean we *have* to have the mouse over the window we want to scroll at all times now?
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #3 - 2012-10-17 17:10:57 UTC
    Yes, it has to be one or the other, and most modern software seems to be trending towards mouse-over, so it makes sense to follow. It does eliminate a lot of unnecessary clicks.
    Matthew97 wrote:
    *Insert OMG FIRST post here*



    Looks promising, can't wait to get onto Dual to test them out :)


    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).
    • javascript:if (typeof posting=='undefined'||posting!=true) {posting=true;__doPostBack('forum$ctl00$PostReply','');}


    So does this mean we *have* to have the mouse over the window we want to scroll at all times now?
    Infinite Force
    #4 - 2012-10-17 17:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
    First page is first?? :)

    In regards to UI performance -

    If I warp away from a heavily structured POS (think 150+ structure & gun modules) and I have my ship cargohold open, I can warp and land nearly 30 AU away before my client starts responding again. If I close my cargohold, and warp, there is a slight delay about 2 seconds out, then it's all good.

    I believe a bug report was filed for this (if not by me, then by others), but I don't remember any #'s.

    Thanks

    HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

    http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
    Matthew97
    #5 - 2012-10-17 17:43:55 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    Yes, it has to be one or the other, and most modern software seems to be trending towards mouse-over, so it makes sense to follow. It does eliminate a lot of unnecessary clicks.
    Matthew97 wrote:
    *Insert OMG FIRST post here*



    Looks promising, can't wait to get onto Dual to test them out :)


    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).
    • javascript:if (typeof posting=='undefined'||posting!=true) {posting=true;__doPostBack('forum$ctl00$PostReply','');}


    So does this mean we *have* to have the mouse over the window we want to scroll at all times now?


    Nice java in your quote and:


    This may cause issues a bit as I know that a lot of my corp mates are sometimes scrolling down things while moving the mouse over to the next overview entry, this change would effectively make that process slightly longer, but it all adds up
    Maraner
    The Executioners
    #6 - 2012-10-17 19:47:19 UTC
    Very excited to see these changes, will take a look when I get home... Any chance that this might ship before the winter expansion?

    I note that one of your options is new 'compact' mode with everything turned off, does this reduce lag on opening inventory? Also when you say everything off, this includes filter view and the isk value of the contents also off? (please random deity).

    Thanks for these excellent updates. Tippia is gonna be very very pleased.
    Elijah Craig
    Trask Industries
    #7 - 2012-10-17 19:52:57 UTC
    The additions look promising. But please tell me if you have fixed the bug which causes the index tree to ignore its previous width and open at its most narrow when the 'my filters' window is minimised?
    Grey Stormshadow
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #8 - 2012-10-17 21:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
    Ok here comes... took little longer than expected because account needed to be reactivated.

    1st of all I don't this post to sound like you would have done bad job because you haven't. There is more good content in this update than bad one, but fact is that certain aspects like corporation hangar still needs some work to make it work properly. I try to give you some explanation later in this post but lets go thru the good stuff, annoying stuff and bugs 1st.

    Good stuff:

    - I really liked how the new neocom buttons work and behave. You could not have done them better.
    - I really liked the new compact mode of the windows. They really help to save screen estate specially while in space.
    - Windows seem to remember their positions rather well. I found few exceptions but generally this was in order.
    - New scrolling is awesome and huge improvement.

    Annoying stuff:

    - The inventory "star" icon which appears to neocom and shows currently open windows should be optional. It is unnecessary, confusing and doesn't serve any purpose. I got rid of it at current production server long ago by moving it to new custom folder and deleting that folder. I've never missed it since and now when I see it again @ test server, just brings bad memories :) Trash it or make it optional please. The same should be done to the the chat button which has pretty much same amount of actual usability and even 100% more annoyance.

    Bugs found:

    - When clone jumping to clone @ another station inventory windows close and will not reopen. This applies at least to item and ship hangars.

    - When user tries to jump to other clone and pushes "jump"-button, open inventory windows close and this happens even client would give error that you have to be in pod or that training que is still active.

    - When user logs out in space while ships cargo hold is open, it will not remain open when you log back in.

    - When user logs out in station while ships cargo hold is open, it will not remain open when you log back in.

    ...and the corporation menu:

    I wish I could give you better feedback on this but unfortunately that's not quite the case (yet). I did give it real change and tried to use it with the index bar open to do what I do. The main problems which raised were following:

    1) If global "always open to new window"-setting is enabled it is difficult to use the side bar as double clicking the "divisions" @ index menu always opens them to new window instead of expanding the contents. If the setting is disabled you get problems with containers which you want always open to new window like before.

    2) The text box search filter clears every time you change "division".

    These 2 are the main stepping stones why I would still stack up all the corporation "divisions" to separate windows and close the index menu from every one of them instead of using one window with index bar open. Obviously while "used like this" this makes the neocom's new corporation button rather pointless because it doesn't open all the "divisions" stacked if I have closed them down.

    Positive side in this is that the situation won't really get any worse from what it is now and at least the corporation button gives easier starting point to restack the windows. However if you're willing to iterate this further, I've given some solutions below.

    ---

    To fix issue 1 I suggest following:

    -> Create 2 options.
    - "always open to new window: hangars"
    - "always open to new window: containers"

    1st one would be rather obsolete, but behave pretty much like the current one. Now we have neocom shortcuts to most of the windows which were origins to this option in 1st place. I don't see many reasons to even keep this setting enabled anymore as those windows which you have opened to new window seem to stick in new window when you reopen them regardless of the status of that setting (which is good).

    2nd one would just affect the containers, which will give much better experience with the index menu and allow users to double click the "divisions" to expand them and double click the "containers" to open them in new window.

    Also as these are global options just like the current one, I would recommend that they were moved to esc menu or to some more hidden place than the window label.

    ---

    To fix issue 2:

    (Corporation) windows should have persistent text search box, which will keep what you type into it while you switch "divisions" and apply that exact filter to all "divisions" you look while the text is in there.

    ---

    ...and here ends the test session. Hopefully the feedback has some value.

    Thanks

    Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

    Play with the best - die like the rest
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #9 - 2012-10-17 21:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
    Hopefully the filter opening when its set to closed got fixed What?

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.
    Kusum Fawn
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #10 - 2012-10-17 22:09:31 UTC
    left right scroll bar?

    Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
    Atomic Option
    NO Tax FAT Stacks
    #11 - 2012-10-17 22:27:47 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:

    • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).


    I for one think this is awesome. I can't count how many times I've been looking at something (often the overview or chat) and tried to scroll, and been puzzled and annoyed for 2s until I realized the window didn't have focus and I needed to click first.
    Grey Stormshadow
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #12 - 2012-10-17 22:35:27 UTC
    Atomic Option wrote:
    CCP Optimal wrote:

    • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).


    I for one think this is awesome. I can't count how many times I've been looking at something (often the overview or chat) and tried to scroll, and been puzzled and annoyed for 2s until I realized the window didn't have focus and I needed to click first.

    Yea... mouse over scroll is pretty much standard in any new software and is logical behavior for human brain.

    Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

    Play with the best - die like the rest
    Panhead4411
    Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
    The Possum Lodge
    #13 - 2012-10-17 23:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
    CCP Optimal wrote:



    • New “Inventory” group added to the EVE menu containing Inventory, Item Hangar, Ship Hangar, Corporate Hangar, Deliveries and Active Ship. You can then drag any or all of those buttons to the Neocom itself for one click access to your most used inventories.

    Again, why can't you put it back where it used to be? On the station services menu? Why do we have to have a separate Icon on your new crappier more crowded Neocom for everything we used to have single click access to as it was? Adding more clutter is not the same as 'making it simple and easy'.

    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).

    • Again, yes definitely not the same. And by that i mean less functional. Also, if one does pull out and stack each corp hanger in a separate window, upon redocking, the order of the hanger tabs gets all jumbled and ends up in seemingly no particular order. Also, less than helpful

    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • The Active Ship Cargo inventory window will now follow the active ship around when switching.
  • The cargo button in the Ship HUD will now open said window instead of the primary inventory window.
  • New “Compact mode” for inventory windows, which hides EVERYTHING except for the items. That’s of course persisted as well per window type and is toggled through a button in the top-right corner.
  • Removed switch-between-inventories-on-drag-hover feature for tree view, so no more accidental switches.

    • FINALLY. These were asked for since DAY ONE of SiSi testing, why wait 6 months to tell us we have to wait another 2 months for this?

    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • Implemented scroll-on-drag-hover for the tree view (and in fact all scrolls in EVE).
  • Scrolling with a mouse wheel will now apply to the window under the mouse instead of the window with focus (applies to all windows and not just the inventory).

    • This was only a problem in Eve AFTER you forced that bloody tree down our throats. Why change something to make the tree easier, but everything more awkward?


    And again, What happened to the "weekly updates until this is as good as the old one"....??? Why did you make that promise, and then not follow through, or even respond for months at a time? (Vacations are not a valid excuse, as i'm sure everyone that took vacation had some idea that they were taking vacation before they actually left)

    ---------------edit------------

    And brought in from another thread b/c you never really answered this point...

    Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:

    First, and most importantly, thank you for the communication and the opportunity to provide feedback.

    BUT I need to ask the question: how can we -- as clients and active participants in this project -- trust CCP to follow through on legitimate feedback provided?

    We gave CCP a ton of use-case based feedback before the revised UI was released back in May of this year and we were ignored. We gave CCP even more feedback and use-case based testing in the weeks following the Inferno release and we were given lip service and falsehoods by your lead designer (he who shall not be named). UI-related defects have remained open, unfiltered and unaddressed for *months* at this point.

    So, how is this Fall's project work and CCP - client interaction different? Why should we invest our time reviewing your work when very recent history shows that CCP places extraordinary little value on its customers' time and experience with their product?


    This. Period.

    Topped by the fact we have to create a totally separate install just to test it. Let alone the time it will take half of us to actually get the Duality client to actually patch and play TO Duality. only for it to be active for a meager few days.

    You've already shown with most (not ALL, but definitely more than half) of the content (leaked or otherwise) released for Retribution, that you weren't really going to do anything about the feedback because whomever was working on it didn't care for the feedback. With the general air of; it was made the way you (who obviously don't even attempt to play the game in the manner it is intended) want it to be so that is how it is, regardless of our opinions.

    http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
    Maraner
    The Executioners
    #14 - 2012-10-18 02:40:56 UTC
    Ohh yes and btw can we get a button on the station services for this please? perhaps even a corp hanger button (go on you know you really want to).

    I'm glad as the above poster is to see the beginnings of the death of the tree. I'd like to think that you guys learned a bit from all of this, the uniderped inventory from a flea ridden mutt from day one, it blows arse that it's taken nearly a year to fix this botched **** to return it to essentially nearly what we had before it was shafted.

    I'd seriously like to see the above raft of changes hit TQ well before winter, I have been running my inventory and hanger of the station services tab since you launched the Uniderp. It kind of sucks that the most exciting thing for me at the moment in the upcoming expansion is a fix to something that hadn't been broken.

    Nevertheless I'm very happy to see the above changes heading our way, and thanks to the Devs that have worked on this.
    Rock Kicker
    Full Bore Inc
    #15 - 2012-10-18 05:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rock Kicker
    CCP Optimal wrote:

  • The primary window will always show the entire tree view (all available inventory locations at a given time) but secondary windows will only show parts of it. So, for example, if you open up the Station Corp Hangar in a new window (you can now, you can in fact open up anything in a separate window) the tree view will only show the Corp hangar and its descendants (this essentially means you’ve got the old corp hangar window (I said essentially, I know divisions are a bit more vertical)).


    • By vertical, I take it the tree is the only way to access divisions short of spending time dragging divisions out to their own windows, and then stacking them to re-create the more efficient tab environment of the previous inventory system? If I do this for every array at my POS, will the stacked windows stay put in this future release so I can chop down the Tree? Or perhaps an option to turn tabs on for an array with divisons?

    I for one shrink the tree away, as it takes up screen space that is best used for other things, it's ineffecient to use, especially at a POS with alot of arrays. IMHO, the tree is the worst part of the new inventory. It's most annoying to have to expand the tree, scroll around to find the proper array, select division, and then shrink it back versus simply clicking on a tab once I've opened the inventory for that array.


    - Edit -

    Not sure if this has been suggested before, but a cool feature would be that if I drag inventories to the neocom when I'm at a POS, and then warp away, they drop off. But return when I get back in range. Could apply to stations as well.

    The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #16 - 2012-10-18 15:24:42 UTC
    If you're running EVE on a low-end PC then the sheer amount of UI elements might be the culprit, in which case the new isolated trees are going to help a lot. Edge case lag defects can be hard to fix because they're usually hard for us to repro, so I encourage you to FRAPS a video and link it in a bug report, as such videos can come in real handy to figure out what's actually going on.

    Infinite Force wrote:
    First page is first?? :)

    In regards to UI performance -

    If I warp away from a heavily structured POS (think 150+ structure & gun modules) and I have my ship cargohold open, I can warp and land nearly 30 AU away before my client starts responding again. If I close my cargohold, and warp, there is a slight delay about 2 seconds out, then it's all good.

    I believe a bug report was filed for this (if not by me, then by others), but I don't remember any #'s.

    Thanks
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #17 - 2012-10-18 15:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Optimal
    Are you talking about framedrop (decreased FPS for a limited time) or unusually long server response time (spinning wheels)? If the former, then the compact mode will help somewhat, but what will help even more is the tree isolation of secondary windows.

    The compact mode will hide the tree, capacity gauge, quick filter box and estimated prices. That's about everything aside from the items if I'm not mistaken.

    Maraner wrote:
    Very excited to see these changes, will take a look when I get home... Any chance that this might ship before the winter expansion?

    I note that one of your options is new 'compact' mode with everything turned off, does this reduce lag on opening inventory? Also when you say everything off, this includes filter view and the isk value of the contents also off? (please random deity).

    Thanks for these excellent updates. Tippia is gonna be very very pleased.
    CCP Optimal
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #18 - 2012-10-18 15:37:29 UTC
    I'm pretty sure that we now have all such cases covered, but could you give me a step by step repro? If it's along those lines:
    1) Open a wreck in a seperate inventory window
    2) Expand tree and configure width
    3) Close window and open another wreck
    4) Expand tree view and notice that tree width hasn't persisted
    ... then I just fixed that minutes ago.
    Elijah Craig wrote:
    The additions look promising. But please tell me if you have fixed the bug which causes the index tree to ignore its previous width and open at its most narrow when the 'my filters' window is minimised?
    Scrapyard Bob
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #19 - 2012-10-18 15:50:01 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    If you're running EVE on a low-end PC then the sheer amount of UI elements might be the culprit, in which case the new isolated trees are going to help a lot. Edge case lag defects can be hard to fix because they're usually hard for us to repro, so I encourage you to FRAPS a video and link it in a bug report, as such videos can come in real handy to figure out what's actually going on.


    This happens even on a normal PC (AMD FX-6100 3.3GHz, 16GB RAM, Win7 64bit, NVIDIA GTX 460 1GB). If you have inventory windows open when you warp away from a research or death-star POS, your client's FPS will drop to about 3 (down from 60 FPS) for 20-30 seconds. To be specific, we're talking about a POS tower with:

    - At least 4+ manufacturing arrays, each with 20-30 stacks of items in it spread across the divisions
    - 30+ weapon batteries, each with 1 stack of ammo
    - 8+ research labs with 10+ stacks of datacores / interfaces / decryptors in each along with 100+ BPCs in each from copy jobs

    Which is about average for a research tower as you tend to only tend to them every 3-4 days (unloading BPCs, restocking datacores or other consumables, or restocking the arrays and hauling away finished goods).

    ...

    Two other major performance issues in the current Unified Inventory on TQ are:

    - A hangar with 3 bookmarks sitting on a corporate hangar floor results in a multi-second lag every time you dock and attempt to open up the corporate hangar tree. Even if there's nothing else in the corporate hangar, the bookmarks cause a slowdown.

    - A corp hangar with 25,000+ BPCs or other item stacks, even though those BPCs are nicely tucked away in multiple containers, takes 20-30 seconds for the tree to respond to user input. (Why so many BPCs? Because they don't stack and they tend to accumulate over time and are a hassle to try and sell.) Under the old UI, access to the corporate division hangar was instant because it was well behaved and didn't look inside the containers until it needed to.
    Infinite Force
    #20 - 2012-10-18 15:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    If you're running EVE on a low-end PC then the sheer amount of UI elements might be the culprit, in which case the new isolated trees are going to help a lot. Edge case lag defects can be hard to fix because they're usually hard for us to repro, so I encourage you to FRAPS a video and link it in a bug report, as such videos can come in real handy to figure out what's actually going on.

    Infinite Force wrote:
    First page is first?? :)

    In regards to UI performance -

    If I warp away from a heavily structured POS (think 150+ structure & gun modules) and I have my ship cargohold open, I can warp and land nearly 30 AU away before my client starts responding again. If I close my cargohold, and warp, there is a slight delay about 2 seconds out, then it's all good.

    I believe a bug report was filed for this (if not by me, then by others), but I don't remember any #'s.

    Thanks


    I run a DELL XPS 17, 1gb Video Card an i5 proc, 8gb's RAM and Win 7 x64. I have the video FX's set to low and I can run anywhere between 1 and 7 clients with ease. The only time I get this type of lag is when warping from a POS as I indicated -- and it occurs with 1 client or multiple clients.

    Regardless of the number of UI elements, be it 1 or 1000, I should not be able to warp & land 30 AU away while having an unresponsive client.

    I'll see what I can do about a fraps vid.

    Scrapyard beat me to the basic answer ... lol

    HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

    http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
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