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How are incursions?
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MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#21 - 2012-10-16 17:47:06 UTC
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


-1

Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.

Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.

Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic)

EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.


Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#22 - 2012-10-16 17:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


Incursions are broken in LO & NULL SEC moving them there will not fix them. They actually make a lot more sense in HI SEC then in NULL SEC: Why should Concord pay bounties in NULL anyways if they don't control out there? Incursions make alot more sense in role playing terms in HISEC: that is where Master Kuvarki wants to do the most damage for his revenge.

There is still a big Human element: the sites can be competed for.

Right now Incursions are about 1/8th the ISK faucet of Wormholes and 1/25th the ISK faucet of Bounties. Even Mission Bonus payouts are a larger ISK faucet then Incursions right now post Escalation NERF. The Incursion communites are still there but they are a ghost of what they were after the Escalation DECIMATION
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#23 - 2012-10-16 18:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillion Jacobe
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


-1

Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.

Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.

Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic)

EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.


Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change.


Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go..

It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore.

Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore.

Edit2: 'hisec is not safe'.. they are at risk from suicide gankers, war targets infiltrating their fleets, spies winding up in fleet command positions kicking or breaking bonuses, people pre-spawning sites and just the sites in general if they are running HQ's.. There is risk to incursions, appropriate to risks expected in highsec.. What you're really saying here is you want them in lowsec/nullsec so you can score easy kills with your uber PVP blob and sorry, that's not gonna happen. There should be decent money to be made in hisec imo.. It takes a lot of coordination and effort to roll the big HQ fleets.. in fact i firmly believe their isk output should be increased vs vanguards and assaults further than it is.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#24 - 2012-10-16 19:01:29 UTC
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


-1

Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.

Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.

Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic)

EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.


Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change.


Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go..

It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore.

Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore.

Edit2: 'hisec is not safe'.. they are at risk from suicide gankers, war targets infiltrating their fleets, spies winding up in fleet command positions kicking or breaking bonuses, people pre-spawning sites and just the sites in general if they are running HQ's.. There is risk to incursions, appropriate to risks expected in highsec.. What you're really saying here is you want them in lowsec/nullsec so you can score easy kills with your uber PVP blob and sorry, that's not gonna happen. There should be decent money to be made in hisec imo.. It takes a lot of coordination and effort to roll the big HQ fleets.. in fact i firmly believe their isk output should be increased vs vanguards and assaults further than it is.


I never said anything about getting them into low/null for kills. All I am saying is that the people that fly around in empire in there 5 bill plus incursion ships will never move into low/null no matter how large the reward is.
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#25 - 2012-10-16 19:03:02 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


-1

Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.

Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.

Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic)

EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.


Read this slowly and carefully. There is no amount of isk that will bring the risk adverse players of hi-sec to low or null. They want to play as risk free a game as possible and this will never change.


Untrue.. a massive number of incursion runners are alts of people who live in low and null.. if the risk was large enough, they would go..

It was not totally uncommon to see incursion runners in lowsec running the sites.. they even had escape plans and posses setup to deal with the pirates.. but since the nerf, isk return went down, they don't run them anymore.

Edit: I know this first hand having killed and chased many an incursion fleet w/ my -10.. Since the nerf, we simply don't see them anymore.

Edit2: 'hisec is not safe'.. they are at risk from suicide gankers, war targets infiltrating their fleets, spies winding up in fleet command positions kicking or breaking bonuses, people pre-spawning sites and just the sites in general if they are running HQ's.. There is risk to incursions, appropriate to risks expected in highsec.. What you're really saying here is you want them in lowsec/nullsec so you can score easy kills with your uber PVP blob and sorry, that's not gonna happen. There should be decent money to be made in hisec imo.. It takes a lot of coordination and effort to roll the big HQ fleets.. in fact i firmly believe their isk output should be increased vs vanguards and assaults further than it is.


I never said anything about getting them into low/null for kills. All I am saying is that the people that fly around in empire in there 5 bill plus incursion ships will never move into low/null no matter how large the reward is.


They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#26 - 2012-10-16 19:10:59 UTC
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:



They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.


People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#27 - 2012-10-16 19:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillion Jacobe
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:



They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.


People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.


Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense.

At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for.

It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed.

I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#28 - 2012-10-16 20:06:33 UTC
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:



They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.


People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.


Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense.

At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for.

It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed.

I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about.


I never argued it was broken I just stated that by increasing the payouts from the ones in low or null will not cause a move of the Incursion runners of hi-sec to low or null.

As things are at currently 100 mill an hour is fair to make in hi-sec. Maybe it needs to be toned down slightly 75~90 mill an hour should be a fair match to the risk. Null sec players can make more then that when/if they have a break from the wars and a quiet system to rat in. Empire runners never have to take a break as they don't have CTA's or Reds camping there systems.

I am not for making Incursions only low or null as this would drive people out of the game as that is not most empire players play style.

I do not agree with your point about hi sec not being safe for incursion runners. A measurable risk is 1 out of 20 times my ship dies. not once in a blue moon something might happen. Please post the last time an blingy Incursion ship has been lost. You have a greater chance of losing a ship in a lvl 4 then an incursion.

The problem with ISK is this game is very old and has a ton of isk that has been stocked up over the years. There have never been enough sinks to maintain a balance. Incursion have not helped it but have not hurt it as much as people claim it has.
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade
#29 - 2012-10-16 20:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Korinne
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Incursions are an isk faucet at this point. Are they risk free? No, but the risk is wholly predictable and thus avoidable as it contains no human element. The only way I think incusions could work long term would be if they moved them all to lowsec, the very fact that they exist in high sec makes no real sense anyway.


-1

Not everybody wants to play eve to PVP.. It's as simple as that and people need to accept it. If there are not 'relatively' safe ways to make money, fleet up and enjoy the game in highsec a sizable number of subscribers will leave, and this game will die.

Besides, there are plenty of options to grief incursion runners into the ground.. I know suicide ganking logi ships was popular for a while, and can ruin a fleets day.

Incursions in lowsec will just get perma-camped by pirates. Hi sec players are not there to provide an unending stream of kills to lowsec players (though the tend to do this enough as is without CCP making it a requisite mechanic)

EDIT: if the lowsec / nullsec incursions are going unused, the solution is very simple. Make them more financially rewarding to the point that the risk incurred is worth it.


I agree, there should be relatively risk free ways to make isk; I am not saying that there shouldn't be. What I am saying is that one of the best ways to make isk quickly shouldn't also be one of the safest. It's completely unhinged from risk reward. If you put them all in lowsec, it engages everybody; the mission runners, the pirates, the alliances, everyone; and that way it is justifiable when you're hauling billions of isk out of them. Furthermore, it actually encourages players to interact with each other, join larger coalitions and form groups to achieve a greater goal, which in the end makes it all the more rewarding.
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#30 - 2012-10-16 20:14:23 UTC
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:
MIrple wrote:
Maximillion Jacobe wrote:



They won't take their 5 bil incrusion ship to low/null.. That doesn't mean they won't take something cheaper to low/null to run a site with .. Half the reason people run those crazy fits is ton win contested sites.. Cheaper fits are ok in lowsec incursions are you are not generally being contested for them.


People run those crazy fits because its about isk/hr. And if there was as big a risk as you make it sound in empire incursions these fleets would be rare. Why would someone who can make 100 mill an hour go to low and make less an hour then they would in empire, they wouldn't.


Never said there was a 'big' risk.. It's hisec, there shouldn't be a 'big' risk just a measurable one.. Arguing that it's broken just because people want to stay in hisec because it's more profitable makes no sense.

At what point did CCP ever say the objective of hisec was to be devoid of money making opportunity and population? Incursions were created *specifically* to give hisec players an option to fleet up and run large gang pve operations, cuz that's what they were asking for.

It's a sandbox, if people want to play in the shallow end, then they are allowed.

I can make a **** ton more than 100mil isk/hour running plexes or level 5's in lowsec, or running anom's in null sov space so i fail to see exactlty what is 'broken' here. after incursions the best option was level 4's which yelds what.. 20-30 million an hour if you blitz like hell? that's crap money. Hiseccers should not be 'punished' just because they don't want to play the average pvpers view of what EVE should be all about.


I never argued it was broken I just stated that by increasing the payouts from the ones in low or null will not cause a move of the Incursion runners of hi-sec to low or null.

As things are at currently 100 mill an hour is fair to make in hi-sec. Maybe it needs to be toned down slightly 75~90 mill an hour should be a fair match to the risk. Null sec players can make more then that when/if they have a break from the wars and a quiet system to rat in. Empire runners never have to take a break as they don't have CTA's or Reds camping there systems.

I am not for making Incursions only low or null as this would drive people out of the game as that is not most empire players play style.

I do not agree with your point about hi sec not being safe for incursion runners. A measurable risk is 1 out of 20 times my ship dies. not once in a blue moon something might happen. Please post the last time an blingy Incursion ship has been lost. You have a greater chance of losing a ship in a lvl 4 then an incursion.

The problem with ISK is this game is very old and has a ton of isk that has been stocked up over the years. There have never been enough sinks to maintain a balance. Incursion have not helped it but have not hurt it as much as people claim it has.



Run w/ some TVP HQ fleets.. I would say almost daily at least 1 or 2 ships are lost, at least it was that way when i ran with them.. usually logi, sometimes shiny's.. Through no fault of the FC's (usually) there is just a **** ton of DPS in those sites and if everyone is not 100% focused often someone pays the price.. mothership sites as well, often claim victims

assaults and vg's less so, but i only run incursions once in a blue moon and almost every time i decide to someone is talking about such and such a ship that was lost earlier that day.. I've seen as many as 3 shiny faction BS go down in one day to HQ sites.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-10-16 20:28:09 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
Jasper Dark wrote:
Been a long while since I did them and never successfully Smile

I'm looking at my direction in Eve and I may try incursions...

Are they worth doing? risk vs reward?


They're pretty decent in nullsec.


For those not aware of sarcasm:

- Not a single lowsec nor nullsec incursion has been completed/finished/won ever since the incursion nerf back in late spring 2012.

GF ccp Big smile


Replaced for easy-to-get/exploit (pick your choice) FW lp's

brb
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#32 - 2012-10-16 20:58:36 UTC
Condensed for the OP: In line with most other high sec content.
Courier missions
RP agents
Mining missions
Mag sites
Belt ratting
Loot farming
ATK Mining

Everything besides level 4 security missions.
Jasper Dark
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-10-17 06:58:57 UTC
Let me state, I am not against high risk...

Risk is everything and reward should equal that...

If the reward of Incursions is low but the risk is high (risk of losing ship) then its not worth it. If risk is high and payout is high then its worth it!


That was why I was asking. No point spending a few bil on ship/fit for 20isk per hour...know what I mean??

So can we put away the "Want low risk run missions" tat .....

Also thank you for the response, it seems I have a bit more grinding to do to afford the ship/fit for incursions. I'm not in to Logi as I like to shot things Big smile

I guess I'll look elsewhere for giggles.....
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#34 - 2012-10-17 08:54:51 UTC
Right now incursions activity is like Schrodinger's cat - you can't tell if it's dead or alive.

P.S. And no - to join fleets person doesn't have to have shiny 2+ billions worth faction ship with T2 guns. While it may be critical for smaller fleets pilot can fly Maelstrom with meta4 guns and t2 tank to join 40 person TVP headquarter fleets.
Jasper Dark
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-10-17 11:02:30 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Right now incursions activity is like Schrodinger's cat - you can't tell if it's dead or alive.

P.S. And no - to join fleets person doesn't have to have shiny 2+ billions worth faction ship with T2 guns. While it may be critical for smaller fleets pilot can fly Maelstrom with meta4 guns and t2 tank to join 40 person TVP headquarter fleets.


Thanks for the info, I'll need to look in to joining a corp that will allow someone like me (T2 Armor Tank and Amarr BS with meta4 guns) Big smile
Anomander Onzo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-10-17 13:32:31 UTC
Alright, I'll post something a bit different here. Yes incursion are still being run, while they may not be such a lucrative source of income as they were before the patch, they are most definitely still being run.
Since i see that your going for an armor fit, join the in game channel "The Ditanian Fleet", that is where most of the public armor fleets are run out of. For shield fits join the channel "The Valhalla Project". The folks in these channels will be more than happy to answer any questions you have.
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#37 - 2012-10-17 14:23:17 UTC
Jasper Dark wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Right now incursions activity is like Schrodinger's cat - you can't tell if it's dead or alive.

P.S. And no - to join fleets person doesn't have to have shiny 2+ billions worth faction ship with T2 guns. While it may be critical for smaller fleets pilot can fly Maelstrom with meta4 guns and t2 tank to join 40 person TVP headquarter fleets.


Thanks for the info, I'll need to look in to joining a corp that will allow someone like me (T2 Armor Tank and Amarr BS with meta4 guns) Big smile


you don't need to join their corp. Just join channel 'The Valhalla Project' and speak up.. ask for a link to their fitting site, find something you can fly and X up with your fit.

As mentioned before, a t1 battleships w/ t2 mids and lows and meta level guns is acceptable for most TVP HQ fleets.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#38 - 2012-10-17 14:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lipbite wrote:
Right now incursions activity is like Schrodinger's cat - you can't tell if it's dead or alive.

P.S. And no - to join fleets person doesn't have to have shiny 2+ billions worth faction ship with T2 guns. While it may be critical for smaller fleets pilot can fly Maelstrom with meta4 guns and t2 tank to join 40 person TVP headquarter fleets.


CCP has been tight fisted on statistics onIncursion payouts because they know they arse rayped Incursions ( especially in lo/NULL ) and don't want to spend the time on fixing what was broken. Getting them to admit that the Wall of OTA's was about to put a deatrh nail in HI SEC Incrursions was like pulling teeth. Not sure if Incursions now have found an equilibrium but CCP's ignoring of many of the Incursion communities lead to the death of them. BTL died, TDF/Armour has had a slow lingering death sprial. A few isolated very shiney fleets are still making out ok but I believe they are growing smaller too.

I doubt CCP will ever publish stats on Incursions payouts again because it would be admitting to mistakes: Iwas surprised that CCP Soundwave in the CSM minutes admitted to breaking Incursions. I am not however surprised at the space rich CSM's reaction to the decimation of Incursions ( especially in null/lo )which was nothing because it did not affect thier own special interests.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Staples Optima
TD Strike Force SRP
#39 - 2012-10-19 00:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Staples Optima
Highsec incursioning as a whole has been under a lot of stress recently, through all of the communities. There are differen levels of requirements from tvp/isn shield fleets and tdf armor fleets for hq's, and multiple different AS/Vg communties. The people who say incursioning is all about the isk/hr, are right in a sense, but wrong in a sense. Where all forgetting that this is a game, and if your not having fun then whas the point in spending time on it?

Granted alot of people like shiny fleets and so do I, but as a TVP HQ Fc I cannot neglect the fact that people have to start somewhere. The isk/hr of a HQ site varies entirely on the fleet comp, and the isk/risk ratios the same. But I honestly believe that in HQ's the more isk you pump into your ship, the less risk it is. An example, TCRc's. these have extremely high alpha, enough to catch a basilisk off guard and insta pop them. If you have a fleet of 30 maelstroms or somehing to that affect, then your not going to kick out nearly as much as a fleet of 30 machariels, as such, they high alpha stays on grid for longer. Granted there are other things to bare in mind, but as it stands, with the correct amount of logi backing up a decent fleet, why not pump 3+ billion ito your incursion ship in order to decrease the time between payouts. I love flying TCRC's tbh, because the time between starting and getting a wallet flash is lovely, and as someone has said, ships do get popped, but that is what donations and SRP's and people actually paying full attention is for right?

Anyone interested in looking into incursions and fits and where they feel they belong, feel free to evemail me
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#40 - 2012-10-19 00:37:44 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Adoro wrote:
They are your time worthwhile if you get a decent gang together (10+) in faction battleships. Nightmares, Machariels and Vindicators + some logistics. You make 100mil a hour easily if you keep grinding them.

Getting the gang together is the hardest part, incursions itself are boring-ish. But still better than most ISK making activities because they're kinda hard to do. PVP-level dps from NPC's + jamming. You need to think ahead about your tactics (like instapop them jamming ships) and work together as a team.

Ask about in the incursion channel (when you're in an incursion system it will pop up) about current gangs and see if you can join one. The better incursion groups do expect you to have a good fitted ship though (read above) so prepare to pay up for that faction bs.


You should tell the OP that once the new bounty system kicks, in, there will be many griefers in the Incursion channels examining each fit posted to select players to but bounties on for maximum payout / grief tears.

There will be squads of suicide griefers aka bounty hunters stalking every gate in and out of Incursion systems, just waiting for the high bounty/ high priced ships to come through.


Good, maybe that'll kill some of the fitting elitism that exists and give actual newbs a chance to get involved.
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