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Taking down a hi-sec POS

Author
indiana bones
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-10-15 19:05:17 UTC
Hi All,

I'm new to setting up POS's in high sec, so please correct me on anything P

I want to setup a POS in a 0.7 system, but unfortunately no moons available. There are several moons with large offline POS's which look like they've all been forgotten about. They've been offline for at least a few weeks and not seen anyone from their corps online. There are small and med's in system, but they are online.

So I've accepted that I need to do a war-dec and take one down, but I have a few questions...

Does anyone have any experience with how long it might take to take down a large offline POS with only 4-5 battleships? I'm happy to grind this one weekend if I can.

Will I still need to grind through shield hitpoints on an offline POS as the shields are down?

Also been thinking about the possibility of getting a merc corp in to do it. Anyone know how much they might charge or does anyone have any contacts they might recommend for this?

Alternatively, could look at taking a small/med one down, but just seems like hassle with reinforcement timers plus they'd probably just call in backup.

Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-10-15 20:00:15 UTC
the offline will be a lot easier by a long shot, and it would be best to do this before the agression changes.

If you can all fit cap stable laser ships you can all sit within 3-5 km of the stick and just afk blast the tower down. cheap

yes you have to grind down the offline towers shields. it will also still have the passive regen that you normally get so your output dps has to be at least 250 just to match the passive regen. with 4-5 battleships you should be able to get at least 4k dps ,

use armageddons or oracles,
with a wardec but no real enemy you can fit an armageddon (max skills before implants) to get 1204 dps, no tank but meh?
no ammo cost (t1 crystals)

hire a merc if you want but tower bashing is boring.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Reticle
Sight Picture
#3 - 2012-10-15 20:13:14 UTC
You might consider just trying somewhere else. If you go the war route, you had better find a way to stay anonymous from your target, because if they come back to find their POS taken down, you're going to have to defend the POS you put up.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-15 20:50:24 UTC
Reticle wrote:
You might consider just trying somewhere else. If you go the war route, you had better find a way to stay anonymous from your target, because if they come back to find their POS taken down, you're going to have to defend the POS you put up.


Eh, maybe. I killed a dead stick a few years ago set up by a defunct corp and never heard a word about it. My POS sat there for more than a year, completely unmolested.

Hisec POS operations are a lot less fraught than in lowsec or null. In hisec there's no moon goo to fight over, so it's easier to just go find another moon. There's no reason to prefer one moon over another. Bashing a POS in hisec really isn't worth it unless all the moons are taken and the system is logistically very important to you.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-10-15 22:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I always have a hard time believing these stories of no free moons.

The last time I went moon hunting because someone wrote there were no spots, I found two open moons two jumps from Jita, and that was the first system I checked.

1. Get into a shuttle, or something that warps fast (Interceptors are ideal).
2. Warp to planet 1.
3. Set dscan range for the distance to the last moon on the planet plus ~1m km (FYI: 1 au = ~150m km).
4. Count the number of control towers (helps to only enable towers, moons, and planets on your overview).
5. If the number of control towers is less than number of moons, CONGRATULATIONS! You may have found a spot!
6. If not, warp to the next planet and go back to step #3.

Keen dscan users will know when they have the dscan range to scan multiple planets at the same time.

It takes ~10 minutes to scan a typical system.

Generally you will find moons around 4-6 jumps from any trade hub, as each jump increases the number of possible systems exponentially.

I recommend picking the systems you are interested in first, based on the station corporation, agents, reprocessing, repair, medical, etc., and checking those systems first. Don't forget to check office rental rates if you do find a spot.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#6 - 2012-10-16 04:20:07 UTC
To add to the cheap attacking of POS's you will also enjoy sentry drones.

Just let them shoot all they want with no ammo cost.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#7 - 2012-10-16 04:25:41 UTC
Shockedno open moons??? I see moons and they're everywhere....really all over just take some time, why in the world is that moon the one you must have??? I go scouting all the time if you tell me what special about that moon I will eve mail you the location.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#8 - 2012-10-16 11:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
I'm gonna quote all this mess.

Hi All,
Hi. I'm Reppyk from the merc corp BLSHL, and I fought solo over 35 POSes in highsec. o/

Does anyone have any experience with how long it might take to take down a large offline POS with only 4-5 battleships? I'm happy to grind this one weekend if I can.
With 5 BS on an offline large tower, it's about ~4h. But it really depends of your ships, the fit, your implants, your skills, and the race of the tower.

Will I still need to grind through shield hitpoints on an offline POS as the shields are down?
The shield is still here. The forcefield is down ; that's not the same thing.

Also been thinking about the possibility of getting a merc corp in to do it. Anyone know how much they might charge or does anyone have any contacts they might recommend for this?
Can I recommend myself ? Big smile

Alternatively, could look at taking a small/med one down, but just seems like hassle with reinforcement timers plus they'd probably just call in backup.
Half of the time, they call neutral reps. But it can be fun too !

the offline will be a lot easier by a long shot, and it would be best to do this before the agression changes.
I don't see what could cahnge in the next patch.

yes you have to grind down the offline towers shields. it will also still have the passive regen that you normally get so your output dps has to be at least 250 just to match the passive regen.
The shield regen is higher than that.


The last time I went moon hunting because someone wrote there were no spots, I found two open moons two jumps from Jita, and that was the first system I checked.
BS. They are only 2 systems "2j from Jita" and every week, some towers are under attacked because of this location.
Maybe you really found 2 empty moons, but within one day somebody it would have been taken.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#9 - 2012-10-16 14:38:40 UTC
best bet to take a POS down cheaply is to use an Armageddon(only amarr BS that can hold 5 sentries) with a full rack of mega pulse II and a full bay of sentries. Advantage is with normal crystals and sentries you put out good damage with zero ammo cost. If you are not worried about ammo you can get higher DPS with faction crystals or other ships and fittings. try to get all your damage, including drones to be of one of the two types the tower has zero resists for. there are many fits that do well over 1000 DPS. You will need all 4 ships doing over 1000 DPS each to get the job done in a decent amount of time.

A small POS can be taken down in 1-2 hours with 4 battleships. A large should in theory take 4 times as long, but as a large tower has a much higher shield regeneration It will take a little longer. Someone said 4 hours but I can't see it being done in less than 5-6 hours with only 4 battleships unless you are doing 1200-1400 DPS with all 4 ships and only hitting the zero resist holes.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2012-10-16 17:42:20 UTC
For what it is worth, I scanned three or four systems near Jita last evening, and found 2 moons open in the second system. Both had a small standard container at the warp-in, which one can petition a GM to move if it blocks tower anchoring.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#11 - 2012-10-16 19:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
It is not just open moons you need. For a high sec research POS you need an open moon in a system with a station you can afford to rent an office in.

Those are much harder to find.

If you find an open moon in a system like that it is only because someone took down the POS either through a POS bash, or someone decided to move their POS. If you steal the spot from someone who went thru the work of bashing a high sec POS to get the moon you can be sure they will hold a grudge and war dec you.

There are plenty of open moons every where, just not in the systems with the stations, cheap office rental, and agents, most players are looking for.

Trust me I have spent many many hours scanning systems looking for a new home. there is no system I have found so far that meets the requirements I am looking for in a new home within 8 jumps of Jita.

I have checked what seems like hundreds of systems, usually 10-15 per night., looking for a new system to call home. It takes a lot of time considering some systems have over 100 moons. I have decided, since I can take down a small POS in 1-2 hours with 4 BS, that I will consider that option if it means getting into one of the top systems on my list.

Once you get 8 jumps or more from jita it is easy to find a system with open moons, under 100,000isk per month office rental, Good agents, a station with 50% refinery, cloning facilities, belonging to a corp you want to run missions for.

These are all important factors. To call a station home you want to have or be able to get good standings with the owning corp. this reduces tax, allows 100% refining, and eventually opens up jump clones when you get standings up over 8.0. for this you need good lvl 4 agents in the area for that corp, and all services you need that are not in your home station must be available in a near by station owned by the same corp or another corp you have good standings with.

If you are looking for a place to put up a POS that meets all these requirements, as I assume most serious high sec POS owners would want, It is much harder to find an open moon. I have found a few, but by the time I got back to the spot with my indy to drop the POS there was already one there.

Plenty of dead POSes though belonging to closed corps or Corps that have been inactive for a long time.

Assuming the average high sec indy pilot who would need a POS will either have 4 or more accounts or is working with a few friends that will share the POS taking down a dead POS is not that hard. 1-2 hours for a small, 2-4 hours for a medium and 4-6 hours for a large with 4 basic fit battleships with laser and drone fits requiring no ammo. If you want to use higher end ships that do well over 1000 DPS each it can go even faster. Most boring activity to do in EVE but sometimes necessary.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2012-10-16 20:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Once you get 8 jumps or more from jita it is easy to find a system with open moons, under 100,000isk per month office rental, Good agents, a station with 50% refinery, cloning facilities, belonging to a corp you want to run missions for.

Given that rentals start at 10k, aiming for 100k rent would considerably narrow your choices.

I'm currently paying ~8m, and have had that vary up to ~25m. Generally the less affluent corps start to leave the station once it breaks ~15m, but I have seen better stations at well over ~50m (the station I'm in only lacks manufacturing lines).

Keep in mind that 30m-40m is one decent level 4 mission a month. A large control tower is about 350m on average, or about 10 more missions per month if you don't make a single ISK with it.
Doddy
Excidium.
#13 - 2012-10-17 10:17:52 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
To add to the cheap attacking of POS's you will also enjoy sentry drones.

Just let them shoot all they want with no ammo cost.


Heavy drones do more damage, also for no ammo cost.
Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#14 - 2012-10-17 13:03:03 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
To add to the cheap attacking of POS's you will also enjoy sentry drones.

Just let them shoot all they want with no ammo cost.


Heavy drones do more damage, also for no ammo cost.


But, they can only be used on an offline POS. Not one with a shield.
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
Doddy
Excidium.
#15 - 2012-10-17 13:05:38 UTC
Well the op is talking about offline pos.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#16 - 2012-10-18 10:23:22 UTC
With the changes to the bounty system, in the winter expansion, won't the OP be able to put a bounty on the POS?
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#17 - 2012-10-19 02:49:55 UTC
Salpad wrote:
With the changes to the bounty system, in the winter expansion, won't the OP be able to put a bounty on the POS?


He could put a bounty on the corp with the new system, and by destroying the POS one could get part of the bounty.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.

Doddy
Excidium.
#18 - 2012-10-19 09:22:44 UTC
Salpad wrote:
With the changes to the bounty system, in the winter expansion, won't the OP be able to put a bounty on the POS?


Bounties on specific structures is something ccp want to do but will not be ready for the winter expansion.
LordulSoare
Lesh Tec. Inc.
The Celestial Empire
#19 - 2012-10-19 13:19:28 UTC
I am shocked how low the dps of some ppl is. this is a huge building static and you can be in optimal range...com on with Macariel i do like 1100 dps alone...ok you do not go with that on you go with thornado whey cheaper. still you get something like 800 dps with good skills...but com on 4 bs with sentry and guns to do just 1000 dps...this is like wtf...get some skills in 4 ppl.Lol
LordulSoare
Lesh Tec. Inc.
The Celestial Empire
#20 - 2012-10-19 13:38:59 UTC
LordulSoare wrote:
I am shocked how low the dps of some ppl is. this is a huge building static and you can be in optimal range...com on with Macariel i do like 1100 dps alone...ok you do not go with that on you go with thornado whey cheaper. still you get something like 800 dps with good skills...but com on 4 bs with sentry and guns to do just 1000 dps...this is like wtf...get some skills in 4 ppl.Lol

ok just went in eft and put 4 gyro 3 track + 4 garde + one large EMP bomb t2. 1.5 k dps com on how much dps do you need more:)
just pay attention to local cos after all you are wardec
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