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To be precise: LE isn't being removed from the software — it's being added. Right now, we don't have it.

What we have at the moment a tangled mess of 1-v-1 flags that describe who did what to whom and who is therefore allowed to shoot whom as a result. The original idea of LEs when it was discussed back in March and again during the summer was to have LEs work like mini-wardecs with dynamic membership lists. Not quite 1-v-1 flagging and definitely no transferrable flagging trees — just a list of members that were on opposite sides.

The rest was rather similar to the current deal: A gets an S-Flag; B engages A and an LE is set up with sides a and b. Anyone supporting A gets added to the LE on the a side; anyone supporting B gets added to the LE on the b side. Since A is a suspect, he's free-for-all so other may attack him as well, at which point they're also added to the b side of the pre-existing LE. If you support both sides you appear on both lists and everyone in the LE can shoot you… so don't. Or maybe supporting the enemy side of an LE should just kick you out of the LE, brand you a traitor, and C-flag you.

The “inheritance” rule is vastly simplified (to the point where you're not really inhereting anything any more): support an a-side player and you end up on the b-list; support a b-side player and you end up on the a-list. You and only you can add yourself to an LE; you and only you can remove yourself from an LE (by letting your P-flag time out). Once you are in an LE with another player through your own actions, that's it — no new checks are made on either side to see if you should be added to some other LE because you're already in one and there's no reason for you to be in two (this is to remove the ability to “bring along” a pre-existing LE and auto-add all members of a new LE you butt in on to the fight you're already in: you add yourself to the new LE and the pre-existing members of that LE don't check to see if you're already fighting somewhere else — the only thing that matters is that you're for or against them in this fight).

On top of this, there'd still be the option of flagging anyone anyone suspect if they brought remote support to an LE to dissuade the use of neutral reps; the option having “implicit members” of the LE, such as corp members on the b side above (to essentially replicate the current theft flagging); and of course, the ability to spawn an LE without having a suspect flagging at its root (again, theft flagging 2.0 and for things like kill rights).



Yes, it's not nearly as “neat” as doing it all with s-flags and a single, non-transferable 1-v-1 LE, and this is why CCP is against the idea, but having two distinct sides and a “possible to count on on one hand” number of methods for adding yourself (and only yourself) to either side still seems like a vast improvement. It's not a matter of inheritance or long trees of who did what to whom, but of a single, contained LE and what you do in relation to it. The tricky part in the programming is to enforce that “…and only yourself” bit by checking whether two players are already in an active LE, and if they are, stop trying to add either one of them to any new lists.

Try assigning the killright to a corp. Voila, group of people hunting someone, and a sandboxy solution to this problem.


I guess that's one bountyhunter or a bountyhunter corp which won't be getting a very good reputation (and as a consequence, not much future work). Voila, sandboxy solution to this problem.

As kill rights are now created differently than before, it is of little value to compare before and after in that regard. For this reason, it's very likely that we'll see more kill rights generated post-Retribution. There are several metrics we'll be tracking, but we're not setting ourselves goals as to what has to happen for this to be a success. We'll track number of kill rights created, number of kill rights made public, average price of public kill rights and frequency of their activation, for instance.

As mentioned in the blog, the long-term goal is to allow people more control over who can buy their kill right, so once that option is in it will definitely alter the landscape considerably. Until then, yes, open kill rights are of more limited value because of how easily the target can rid himself of it, but it doesn't invalidate them completely. At the very least, the original victim can use the open kill right to get compensations from his attacker, which is a moral victory of sorts.

Making them corp-assignable is not a viable option - we want people to group together, but not necessarily force them to be in corps together (as groups can form and disband much more quickly and freely than corporation membership).

The open market kill right option you mention is also something we discarded for the public kill rights as we want them to be as asynchronious as possible. Once players can tailor more who can buy their kill rights, then that part can move more in the direction you're talking about. But not the public system.

The fact that you keep coming up with these ideas framing them like they're the best things like sliced bread without seeing the limitations in them tells me you're just throwing out ideas on the fly without really thinking about them. That's not genius, that's just lame.

quoting for awesomeness :D

it't actually brainstorming, and brainstorming has no place in a discussion, its for brainstorming sessions :)

I have a new one made, and will work on a second one. We should try and organize this on a larger scale. Larger than Goon-buffed Hulkageddon even.



Holy ****, I just realized how amazingly detached CCP is from the wants of the community. Eight years, and it just hit me like a freight train. I really need to rethink some things.

...!!!!!!

Just make a limited engagement where everyone in fleet with the person who activates it can attack the target.... it is super stupid that you allow everyone in the area to shoot the target

We suggested it multiple times, its what you said you want also... so why don't you do it like that?!

Seriously, his idea is much better than yours, mine is fine too if you ask me... but it makes of very annoyed that you guys seem so rock set on the target becoming suspect... so everyone can shoot him... there are so many better solutions, why won't you even listen to player suggestions about it...

The Suspect flag option is not set in stone, but at least right now the order of options is: limited engagement < corp engagement < suspect flag < fleet engagement. With the last one not being possible right now for technical reasons, we chose what we feel is the next best one (suspect flag).

This is pathetic.

CCP again shows how disconnected they are from their playerbase and what actually goes on in their own game.

Paging a CCP dev with an actual brain to this thread.

(Stoffer, don't let us down!)