These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Low/Dull Discussion & Solution
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#21 - 2012-10-16 14:16:32 UTC


Posting in a thread where OP doesn't understand nullsec or EVE in general.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-10-16 14:20:52 UTC
Gassto wrote:


racial rookie ship choice



this is a strong idea. It must be done. CCP get effort at it.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Hypercake Mix
#23 - 2012-10-16 14:21:04 UTC
Low-sec needs a unique and useful resource that solo and small groups can capitalize on.

Mining ideas are stupid and would only make low-sec boring.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#24 - 2012-10-16 14:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
DULL NULL BEAR space should be made so an alliance cannot own more than 10 systems.

RAZOR 1
RAZOR 2
RAZOR 3
RAZOR 4
RAZOR 5
RAZOR 6
RAZOR 7
GSF 1
GSF 2
GSF 3
...


But that won't happen.. Because the runners of the secondary alliances will splinter off to make their own alliance, there will be no actualy central controll of it all, unless razor 2,3,4,5,6,7 etc were renting a station lols.

..
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-16 14:24:52 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Low-sec needs a unique and useful resource that solo and small groups can capitalize on.

Mining ideas are stupid and would only make low-sec boring.



Like extra income in form of ISK? or Extra high quality stuff in form of DEAD space mods?

Low can have some plexes already - but they are contested - people want them for themselves. Also, you can't be safe in low sec if you are alone.

If you bring a group it is a matter of time before a blob lands on you.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#26 - 2012-10-16 14:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
You should try NPC nullsec. Empty enough to mine in if you pay attention, full enough and with enough diversity to solo or small gang PvP and closer then sov space. If join a corp with logistical support you can have your stuff jumped there.

At the moment, its quite difficult to earn ISK in NPC null unless you can move stuff in and out of highsec yourself. However, when the new bounty system hits people will be killing each other for ISK. Huzzah!

Opertone wrote:
Low can have some plexes already - but they are contested - people want them for themselves. Also, you can't be safe in low sec if you are alone.


Not true. A cloak and an MWD on a faster cruiser sized ship will keep you really very safe, and D-Scan and knowing how to use your universe map will keep you out of camps. Strictly speaking you don't even need the cloak.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Maximillion Jacobe
Aeschee Border Protection Services
#27 - 2012-10-16 14:34:44 UTC
I agree that Noob ships and rookie experience would be greatly improved if rookie ships came with a few *useful* fits the player could choose from.. .. maybe special items that never drop (upgrade civilian items a bit and make them un-droppable) so avoid exploiting this.

Similar to how it works in a certain game I played who's name I will not mention .. People get to choose from a selection of *useful* noob fits.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#28 - 2012-10-16 14:40:09 UTC
Low/Dull Discussion looked promising. But turned out to be a low sec/null sec discussion. Sad Anybody up for a Low/Dull Discussion?
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-16 14:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Opertone
Why FPS online games always more exciting than EVE?

Tactics is the answer - I am very experienced in online shooters. Weapon lethality is high, you alone can kill people one by one, and sometimes even win in a 3vs1 engagements. This is where skill counts. Making choices actually wins, and good choices are rewarded.

In eve 2>1 always in terms of power. Everything is linear, damage output progresses in small increments. If you meet two guys in cruisers, you need to run, because even expensively fit cruiser will be weaker still. Lethality is low. Eve is like punching. Not lethal, but if two people punch one guy, chances are that they will have more total power and win.

In action FPS games weapons are lethal, you can kill a person in less than 5 seconds. If you were punching it would be harder and take around 2-10 minutes. You wouldn't be able to punch some one from the crowd at close range for 5 mins and then get away. The crowd would tear you apart.

So in punching crowd and blob is more important than skill and tactics.

What makes eve flawed? Dunno, linear progression? 25% max bonuses?

Remember nano-f@g times, when solo nano stabber with outrageous 300-1000% speed bonuses could outperform regular guys with tactics and skill?

In eve there is no real advantage or difference of one ship over another. If it was more than 100% then skill would matter more than people numbers.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-10-16 14:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Sin Pew wrote:
No game mechanic can force people to do what they don't want to do, stop trying.


Are you talking to the OP or CCP? *Remembers Captain's Quarters*

Also, low/null is going to stay depopulated till highsec is nerfed to the point where PVEing there means t1 frigs/dessies only in your budget. Sucks, and yeah it would cause a stampede of ragequit (mostly from people who rely on highsec to fund their low/null pvp), but the truth hurts. No amount of "buffing" the rewards in null/low can make me take my AFK mining barge and lvl 4 mission boat anywhere they might get shot to pieces.

Well.......maybe I'll throw a naked T1 frig on a alt into a FW plex, but only if there's billions involved. That's a fair compromise, right?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-10-16 14:46:34 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
This post needs more uber guns, pvp arenas, and endgame raids.


More pandas and dwarfs.

brb
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#32 - 2012-10-16 14:52:23 UTC
Connaght Badasaz wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Nullsec = listening to tryhards tell you what to do most nights.

Lowsec = sec status grind or another combat character account

Highsec = F U I'll do what I want

I've been to each area time and time again through the years and its always the same.


I can't say who you've been around, but my null experience has not been so. We come and go as we please, and we do want to do, and the things that make our home viable. CTA, and whatnot.

I suppose if you aren't a team player, then permanent residence in null is not for you. Are there asshats? Sure there are. But once you get away from wanting everything around you to be blue and safer than hi ( which is what you're really about) then the door opens, and heaven awaits.


Deployment with coalitions, mandatory CTA's, certain number of kills per month, killboard efficiency, ISK cost per month per member or corp, ratting rules, exploration rules and system you can/can't rat in are just a few things I can remember off the top of my head from the various alliances I've talked to/been in.

I won't get into a discussion about the safety of nullsec vs. highsec but I will say that you are a silly goose, sir.

Not today spaghetti.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#33 - 2012-10-16 15:49:14 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Connaght Badasaz wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Nullsec = listening to tryhards tell you what to do most nights.

Lowsec = sec status grind or another combat character account

Highsec = F U I'll do what I want

I've been to each area time and time again through the years and its always the same.


I can't say who you've been around, but my null experience has not been so. We come and go as we please, and we do want to do, and the things that make our home viable. CTA, and whatnot.

I suppose if you aren't a team player, then permanent residence in null is not for you. Are there asshats? Sure there are. But once you get away from wanting everything around you to be blue and safer than hi ( which is what you're really about) then the door opens, and heaven awaits.


Deployment with coalitions, mandatory CTA's, certain number of kills per month, killboard efficiency, ISK cost per month per member or corp, ratting rules, exploration rules and system you can/can't rat in are just a few things I can remember off the top of my head from the various alliances I've talked to/been in.

I won't get into a discussion about the safety of nullsec vs. highsec but I will say that you are a silly goose, sir.

Not his fault you've been in bad alliances.
Gassto
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-10-16 15:52:54 UTC
I agree seeding ships in a mostly player driven economy is probably bad. Perhaps when you select the ship and tech level, the nearest sell orders for those items gets filled so the assets are all purchased from real players. I did mention there needs to be a subsidised cost associated with the options, so as long as the ISK is going to the right people, it might not be a big issue.

People have been moaning about the lack of players in low / null for ages, I’m suggesting from my experience that a lot of these are casual players with little play time and little desire to use that time for boring tasks. A possible way around this problem would be to provide a super quick re-shipping method.

This would allow people to focus their game time on having fun, instead of moving assets around which might persuade people to stay in these areas more permanently. They are obviously still going to want other ships as well, but having dispensable competitive frigates everywhere would remove a lot of the hassle associated with entering these places.

This would also go a long way to showing new players how ships are fit and what modules are used for specific tasks etc.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-10-16 16:57:00 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
No game mechanic can force people to do what they don't want to do, stop trying.


Are you talking to the OP or CCP? *Remembers Captain's Quarters*

Also, low/null is going to stay depopulated till highsec is nerfed to the point where PVEing there means t1 frigs/dessies only in your budget. Sucks, and yeah it would cause a stampede of ragequit (mostly from people who rely on highsec to fund their low/null pvp), but the truth hurts. No amount of "buffing" the rewards in null/low can make me take my AFK mining barge and lvl 4 mission boat anywhere they might get shot to pieces.

Well.......maybe I'll throw a naked T1 frig on a alt into a FW plex, but only if there's billions involved. That's a fair compromise, right?
Poor null-seccers, they can't farm peacefully in their space.
You know the WH alliances have even less security yet make the effort of harvesting the limited ressources of their environment nontheless? or you thought they just log and watch their wallet grow from their mere presence in w-space?
It's not AFK cloakies' fault if nullbears stay docked/POSd and thus can't make ISK, it's only the nullbear's fault but then they get envious of high-sec who can make a fraction of the amount available in null anytime.
The problem isn't as much in risk/reward balance as it is in the player's behaviour.
And then there's FW where a 1d old toon can orbit in a plex for hours to stack LPs, but that is another matter.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-10-16 17:18:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ever heard of NPSI?


I thought we were talking about DullSec? Why did you have to bring Factional Warfare into the discussion?

And boom goes the dynamite.
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-10-16 17:32:23 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Why FPS online games always more exciting than EVE?

Tactics is the answer - I am very experienced in online shooters. Weapon lethality is high, you alone can kill people one by one, and sometimes even win in a 3vs1 engagements. This is where skill counts. Making choices actually wins, and good choices are rewarded.

In eve 2>1 always in terms of power. Everything is linear, damage output progresses in small increments. If you meet two guys in cruisers, you need to run, because even expensively fit cruiser will be weaker still. Lethality is low. Eve is like punching. Not lethal, but if two people punch one guy, chances are that they will have more total power and win.

In action FPS games weapons are lethal, you can kill a person in less than 5 seconds. If you were punching it would be harder and take around 2-10 minutes. You wouldn't be able to punch some one from the crowd at close range for 5 mins and then get away. The crowd would tear you apart.

So in punching crowd and blob is more important than skill and tactics.

What makes eve flawed? Dunno, linear progression? 25% max bonuses?

Remember nano-f@g times, when solo nano stabber with outrageous 300-1000% speed bonuses could outperform regular guys with tactics and skill?

In eve there is no real advantage or difference of one ship over another. If it was more than 100% then skill would matter more than people numbers.


This, 1000x this.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP... but after a while it becomes so repetitive and boring and predictable. 90% of PvP in EVE occurs before the fight even happens; skill points, ship type + ship fittings, etc. Except for small things (such as manual piloting, pulsing MWD, or controlling heat), fights might as well be scripted. For example, if you see a Slicer you know it probably has minimal tank and is going to try to kite you at 20km with a Disruptor. If you're in something like an Incursus, then the fight will go the same way every single time with very little deviation. PvP in EVE is all about setting up the situation where the 90% of the fight that's scripted favors you. Very rarely do you encounter something new and innovating. Each ship has only 1 or 2 viable builds, and maybe 1 "novelty" build.

In an FPS game, your skill and experience can allow you, a single player, to kill 10 guys. In EVE, even with faction mods, a single Frigate will lose to 2 Frigates 95% of the time. Once the fight starts there's really nothing you can "do" to pull out victorious except pray. Actually you might as well just eject and head home. That's what I used to do in FW when I got caught by a Slicer; eject and carry on.

Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy PvP in EVE (mostly group PvP because then there's more of those variables and the script is less easy to predict) but after a while it does get a bit boring and it's nice to take a break from it.

And boom goes the dynamite.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-10-16 17:56:44 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
high-sec who can make a fraction of the amount available in null anytime.


You realize that running incursions in a shiny fleet in hisec has more income potential than running 0.0 anomalies with anything short of a deadspace/faction fit faction battleship, right?

And the incursion runners ~still~ want the Escalation changes reversed completely.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-10-16 18:01:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
high-sec who can make a fraction of the amount available in null anytime.


You realize that running incursions in a shiny fleet in hisec has more income potential than running 0.0 anomalies with anything short of a deadspace/faction fit faction battleship, right?

And the incursion runners ~still~ want the Escalation changes reversed completely.


Everything in HiSec is easier than DullSec.

I would say I am only envious of the ratting, since security status has always been a pain for me (I tend to get a bit impulsive around Covetors and AFK pods) but other than that, there's a reason most industrial activities (mining, building, BPO research, etc) are done in HiSec: It's safe and easier, therefore, the actual "in practice" rewards are higher than you get in DullSec, most of the time. (I'm sure there must be some nice pockets of DullSec, in deep blue systems, where the mining is great, the market is bouncing, and life is kushy).

And boom goes the dynamite.
Vera Nisjivaen
The Voidstalker Heresy
#40 - 2012-10-16 18:08:58 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Why FPS online games always more exciting than EVE?

Tactics is the answer - I am very experienced in online shooters. Weapon lethality is high, you alone can kill people one by one, and sometimes even win in a 3vs1 engagements. This is where skill counts. Making choices actually wins, and good choices are rewarded.

In eve 2>1 always in terms of power. Everything is linear, damage output progresses in small increments. If you meet two guys in cruisers, you need to run, because even expensively fit cruiser will be weaker still. Lethality is low. Eve is like punching. Not lethal, but if two people punch one guy, chances are that they will have more total power and win.

In action FPS games weapons are lethal, you can kill a person in less than 5 seconds. If you were punching it would be harder and take around 2-10 minutes. You wouldn't be able to punch some one from the crowd at close range for 5 mins and then get away. The crowd would tear you apart.

So in punching crowd and blob is more important than skill and tactics.

What makes eve flawed? Dunno, linear progression? 25% max bonuses?

Remember nano-f@g times, when solo nano stabber with outrageous 300-1000% speed bonuses could outperform regular guys with tactics and skill?

In eve there is no real advantage or difference of one ship over another. If it was more than 100% then skill would matter more than people numbers.


Instead, how about we compare this to something similar in operation to EVE combat? Other RPGs come to mind. Very few RPGs have FPS level Time To Kill, because then the game would be incredibly boring. In RPGs, you have concepts like tanking, healing, crowd control, and buffing. These things prolong the fight, create more tension, and make individual engagements more meaningful by adding more variables. Knowing that I could lose my PvP fit cruiser before I have time to react (Cue alpha jokes here) would do nothing but make me stay in my pos shields.

As for the 2 vs 1 thing, that's mostly true, with some exceptions (skilled Cynabals taking 2-3 ships and winning handily). On the other hand, 4 vs 2 is far, far less certain. EVE is not balanced for solo PvP in a general sense, even though solo is accounted for and can be viable. On a slightly larger scale (5-10 people per side) you can actually start to see tactics instead of just comparing stats.
Previous page123Next page