Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You are all in irrationality. You want the *Drake* to compete short range toe to toe with the other BCs and you don't care it can be with HML or HAM. Why crying to don't nerf HML when they need it when you can cry to buff HAM ?

And for the peers I was talking about, I was speaking about other long range medium size turret ships. But if you need some stats, I will do my best.

Well, the Hurricane shouldn't be touched @ all. A fleet of shield Harbingers are supperior to a fleet of autocannon-shield-Hurricanes. Thing is a Drake, Harbinger, Talos, Oracle, Naga and Talos all have superior damage projection/applied. The aforementioned all out damage a shield-Hurricane with autocannons @ 13 and above. That's a fact! The only time that changes is with artillery; however, heavy missiles still out shine them in terms of similar damage per second and even more projection (ignoring volley damage).

I'm against the changes to the Hurricane, but its not so big of a deal that it would warrant long conversations with TERRIBUBBLE players.

If a HML-Drake is losing to a Hurricane. Then that pilot is ******** or someone has warfare links and the other does NOT. Same can be said about a shield-Harbinger versus a shield-Hurricane (autocannon). losing in either engagement is an achivement only the most r3t@rded is capable of. Not even a shield-Talos (blasters) is capable of defeating a shield harbinger (heavy pulse lasers) under 30,000m. There damage is to similar @ 25,000m or more and up close @ around 13,000m a shield-harbinger is capable of 850dps; even more with conflag. Tank is the main difference because that damage projection/applied is too similar.

Anyway, without the changes to TE's I and many other pilots were switching to Drakes and Shield-Harbingers anyway. The Hurricane was terrible everywhere and just outclassed. TE's have enabled it to use range along with its speed as an advantage, but its not a I win button; just hard to lose when facing better battlecruisers who will defeat you in point range. @ that point you can choose to get out or esploded trying to get out. The shield-hurricane for me is more usefull against sub-battlecruisers.

I use a Drake, Harbinger, Talos or Naga versus things above cruisers. Generally against multiple things.

Only time a Hurricane really shines in fleets is when using artillery. Otherwise you're always better off in some of the aforementioned battlecruisers.

There are no OP Minmatar ships in eveyclass. The only ones I know of that are is a Sabre (could argue this), Thrasher and that's it. However, there not sh!t in every class. Often THIRD and sometimes being the second best in a class.

Btw, the Myrmidon and Drake are the best close range battlecruisers and some would say the Harbinger is THIRD in that list. Being that it did not excel @ range or close range PRE TE nerf; the non bad pilots were starting to use the other bc's leaVing the Hurricane dead.


Also, like always. Many are behind the META of combat. The Hurricane is being phased out because of tier 3's. Mainly the Talos is to blame here. So CCP is NERFING something because bads think its too good because some entities use it in a fleet doctrine. Mainly the TERRIBUBBLE entities, because you dont SEE a NCDOT or BLACKLEGION or PL focusing on them. Was that bad ones who needed dudes to train into maelstroms. Tier 3's have ruined many other ship classes or the usefullness a ship once had.

The Drake is close to OP or is OP. I'm not sure, but there will always be a best in class. When that's figured out the masses go there and ignore everything else. CCP cant stop that without making everything the same in every class.

[Drake, pvp]

7x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Heavy Missile)

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
EM Ward Field II
Target Painter II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Damage Control II
2x Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

[Statistics - All 5]

Effective HP: 80 365 (Eve: 70 095)
Tank Ability: 147,83 DPS
Damage Profile - -Omni-Damage- (EM: 25,00%, Ex: 25,00%, Ki: 25,00%, Th: 25,00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 81,91%, Ex: 77,03%, Ki: 72,44%, Th: 72,83%
Armor Resists - EM: 57,50%, Ex: 23,50%, Ki: 36,25%, Th: 53,25%

Capacitor (Lasts 4m 10s)

Volley Damage: 2 761,84
DPS: 411,01
==================================================================
[Harbinger, beam]

7x Heavy Beam Laser II (Imperial Navy Multifrequency M)

Large Shield Extender II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

2x Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Co-Processor I

2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

[Statistics - All 5]

Effective HP: 59 429 (Eve: 51 753)
Tank Ability: 78,25 DPS
Damage Profile - -Omni-Damage- (EM: 25,00%, Ex: 25,00%, Ki: 25,00%, Th: 25,00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 62,47%, Ex: 77,36%, Ki: 72,83%, Th: 63,78%
Armor Resists - EM: 57,50%, Ex: 32,00%, Ki: 36,25%, Th: 44,75%

Capacitor (Lasts 1m 55s)

Volley Damage: 1 643,64
DPS: 467,80
=====================================================================
Now, tell me that these fit are **** or whatever, but anyway. I choose the harbinger because the hurricane would have had less dps but alpha, and the brutix is tier1.
So the harbinger indeed have more dps. Roughly 15% more. Though you cannot see here the tracking and falloff values on the harbinger (0,0565@8,6+13km). Though, with this tracking and at this range, you won't ever touch anything moving, and you know how the falloff work (Drake outdps the harbi at 12km, 15km with CNScourge).
Values began to be similar (+13dps for harbniger) with Imperial Navy Xray vs Caldari navy scourge. The harbinger then will have 0,0452rad/s@25,8+13km. Drake outdps the harbinger at around 28km.

So, for bigger target (BC and over), the Drake will outdps the harbinger from 28km to 70km. You can then fit the drake for long range. Though, we will see a little more details about these tracking values.

0,045rad.s@28km mean a transversale velocity of 1125m/s. At 20km, it's 900m/s. At 10km, it's 450m/s, or 565 with gleam. This mean that if your target have this transversal velocity, your dps will be halved. That mean that any frigate is you doom, and you won't even hit a cruiser at less than 20km.

So the mightest long range medium size turret system is outdps by HML at 28km, and it suffer from HUGE tracking penalties for the lower ranges to the benefit of around 15% dps. Farther than 28km, HML will go out to 70km where they will have a 30% dps advantage.

Add that the harbinger have no tank nor ewar/tackle (it's a small fleet harbinger test I took, you would use a pulse harbinger in real life, because of tracking and dps).

You cannot solo in this harbinger, you can do it with the Drake. This is because of frigates and cruisers. On top of these very good performances, the drake have versatility and can engage almost any target, it's tank making for the lack of dps if needed. No other ship can do this : fight effectively from 0 to 70km. Oh, I'm wrong here, BS can do it...

You can figure how it turns out with tech3 ships, it's interesting too. Tengu damage projection is almost better than LARGE long range turrets.

You can say whatever you want about chances or skills, fact are that a drake can take on infinitely more targets than this harbinger or any ship with long range medium size weapon system. That is imbalanced, or OP.

To fix this, you need either to nerf the versatility (damage application) or the dps. CCP decided to nerf the dps, and it's fine I think because HML versatility is what differenciate them from turrets. With 10% damage nerf, turrets may have their window (I miss the 20% nerf). With the range nerf, you have to specialize your ship with rigs to achieve the old range (so it's still possible), and you will still outdps any other medium long range turret (but not by 30% anymore, only 20%, which is still huge). Missile speed have been buffed BTW, so the drawback of delay kind of vanish.

Now Noemi, stop writing until it is for posting your killboard please, and with *relevant* pvp, and go for some lvl4 missions with your drake ? Or just stop talking about my gallente "skills".

OMG, you nerfed two of my favorite choices!

First you mess with quality of my missiles! In fact I would appreciate more missile power.

Then I cross trained to minmatar and now you nerf number one minmatar ship - hurricane! It was perfect, real strong, lots of spare fittings and tank.

Your turn my eve career upside down. Half of the time caldari missiles sucked, then they were fixed and now you take away the toy! Unfair!

Hurricane was my minnie ship of choice - why do you need to weaken it? Instead people need to cross train to minmatar.

I am afraid that messing with my torpedoes will make my Golem very sad. Now buff my damage output on torpedoes and I can forget about your horrible missile debuf idea.

Yeah, if TC/TE changes are implemented the Golem is going to be capable of some crazy damage application over a ridiculous range with torps.

Says the one with no combat record and no combat alt? :)

How so? Small increase in damage for rage (positive), and increase of explosion velo (negative), and decrease of range (negative). The general ship penalties removal is ok, but not really gamebreaking news for Torp users. GMP will work for Torps now though, which maybe helps a bit to apply the damage better. Test server will show. I fear they will be as useless for a Raven like before, which also lies within the Raven platform though ..

Fozzie, can you comment on the rumors spread by some you are attached to a certain political block and may have personal interest in this topic?

"Rumors" Keep being clueless and terrible Noemi.



Or should I say ROU. Come on Noemi, give us some more quotes about your grandmother off the Brighton pier.

As a stress test to Heavy Missile Balance have you attempted to test the DPS of Heavy Missiles in the Gallente COSMOS Mission (Parchanier) - Drone Mind (2 of 2).

The Drone BS that needs to be taken out in that mission has a strong tank and would be the best hi-sec encounter to test Heavy Missiles.

If you need 3 or more drakes to take it down missiles are too weak.

This is a really, really really bad argument.