These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Winter] Combat Cruisers

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#501 - 2012-10-14 03:00:19 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
Only one word

QUAD LIGHT BEAM LASERS

Well ok 4. It's time they receive a buff. They should be the amarr equivalent of RFMLs

The easiest way, but not only one, is to make them medium pulse lasers, with the tracking buff pulse lasers received years ago, and the relative increase in dps. They would work perfectly with the new maller!

Interesting, so they'd be like MedPL's, but with higher range and slightly higher base DPS. And being cruiser sized weapons, they'd be bonused on the hull. I could see myself making some hella scary bait-brick Mallers if this was done.

Not that anybody would fall for them, since everybody already knows that Mallers are all bait.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#502 - 2012-10-14 15:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Pre-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones.

Post-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones. Oh, and there's a logi cruiser. That's cool I guess.

But hey, the Arby's a little better, its immunity to unbonused scripted TDs is more pronounced, its skills are more useful with the new Crucifier and unnamed destroyer in mind. So it's not a loss. Just a lot less of a shake-up than I hoped.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#503 - 2012-10-14 15:49:15 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Pre-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones.

Post-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have cruiser, and it only does damage with drones. Oh, and there's a logi cruiser. That's cool I guess.

But hey, the Arby's a little better, its immunity to unbonused scripted TDs is more pronounced, its skills are more useful with the new Crucifier and unnamed destroyer in mind. So it's not a loss. Just a lot less of a shake-up than I hoped.



This. I am so far rather disappointed in the Amarr dessie compared to the others as well. But I do like some of their other changes to frig / cruisers. Just wish as you said above that it was a bit... more.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#504 - 2012-10-14 23:01:02 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Kuehnelt wrote:
Pre-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones.

Post-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have cruiser, and it only does damage with drones. Oh, and there's a logi cruiser. That's cool I guess.

But hey, the Arby's a little better, its immunity to unbonused scripted TDs is more pronounced, its skills are more useful with the new Crucifier and unnamed destroyer in mind. So it's not a loss. Just a lot less of a shake-up than I hoped.



This. I am so far rather disappointed in the Amarr dessie compared to the others as well. But I do like some of their other changes to frig / cruisers. Just wish as you said above that it was a bit... more.



I don't think Amarr will ever be good on a small scale..

I was hopeful, but i've decided to become cynical instead.. much less disappointing Cry

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#505 - 2012-10-15 00:33:39 UTC
You guys are freaking crazy. The Coercer is already "win" and will be "omgwtfpwn" when the new patch hits.

Anyways, back to your discussions....
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#506 - 2012-10-15 05:29:40 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
You guys are freaking crazy. The Coercer is already "win" and will be "omgwtfpwn" when the new patch hits.

Anyways, back to your discussions....


Yeah, I'm noticing that I'm getting primaried a lot when flying my Coercer as of late. DPS + projection is too good. With the PG requirement reduction of Medium Pulse Lasers, and the increase in PG the Coercer is recieving, it'll be even easier to fit the thing, and the PG reduction on MPL's alone will replace the MAPC that I'm putting on there all the time already, so I'm not technically losing a slot.


But say what you will, I'm going to enjoy the Maller. Probably the Moa too. But not the Rupture or Vexor. I'd sooner die then touch filthy Federation or Slave ships. And no, that's not an invitation to oblige me.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#507 - 2012-10-15 06:12:13 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
You guys are freaking crazy. The Coercer is already "win" and will be "omgwtfpwn" when the new patch hits.

Anyways, back to your discussions....



The coercer is a nice pure dps dessie agreed. I was talking about the new one (the wanna-be curse dessie). But do not let me derail this thread, back to cruisers. ;)

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#508 - 2012-10-15 08:41:58 UTC
Why do all the racial cruisers have the same GJ per second recharge rate?

Amarr should have the best capacitor size and recharge rate.

Caldari and Gallente should be at the middle class.

And minmatar should have the weakest Capacitor size and recharge rate.

After all Amarr pretty much invented capacitor warfare and are well suited to big battles and long sieges.

While Minmatar have lower end technology in this field, their guns use no cap, and are more suited to small skirmishes.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#509 - 2012-10-15 09:09:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
You guys are freaking crazy. The Coercer is already "win" and will be "omgwtfpwn" when the new patch hits.

Anyways, back to your discussions....



Yeees the Coercer will be borderline OP

Thats ONE sub battleship ship <.<

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#510 - 2012-10-16 12:55:03 UTC
Hey everyone. I'm still alive, but have been in Austin for GDC for the last week. I spent a lot of time there mulling over the feedback you all have been giving us and I'm working on getting some numbers together at the moment for a 2nd iteration of these changes.

I expect to get it to the CSM later today and then on to you once they have had a chance to provide some feedback and catch any stupid mistakes on my part Smile

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#511 - 2012-10-16 13:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm still alive, but have been in Austin for GDC for the last week. I spent a lot of time there mulling over the feedback you all have been giving us and I'm working on getting some numbers together at the moment for a 2nd iteration of these changes.

I expect to get it to the CSM later today and then on to you once they have had a chance to provide some feedback and catch any stupid mistakes on my part Smile


I hope your nerfing the ruppy its well OP also any news on armour/shield tanking changes they are much needed?
Also are you changing the mass on these and/or attack cruisers?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Borascus
#512 - 2012-10-16 13:46:25 UTC
Quote:
Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

Vs
Quote:

Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Heavy Assault Ship Bonus: +5km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range and +50m3 extra Drone Bay space per level

Slot layout: 5 H , 5 M , 5 L , 3 turrets
Fittings: 700 PWG, 285 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1406 / 1618 / 2109
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate: 1125 / 335
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 181 / 0.5895 / 11100000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 294 / 7
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 145
Cargo capacity: 460


I thought I'd just picture these two together, what I'm seeing is these two together O.o
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#513 - 2012-10-16 14:05:54 UTC
Borascus wrote:
Quote:
Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480

Vs
Quote:

Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Heavy Assault Ship Bonus: +5km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range and +50m3 extra Drone Bay space per level

Slot layout: 5 H , 5 M , 5 L , 3 turrets
Fittings: 700 PWG, 285 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1406 / 1618 / 2109
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate: 1125 / 335
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass): 181 / 0.5895 / 11100000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 294 / 7
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 145
Cargo capacity: 460


I thought I'd just picture these two together, what I'm seeing is these two together O.o


This is what happens when you only apply power creep to the parent ships and ignore ships based off of them. Truth is that all these ships need to be rebalanced all at once. 6+ month gaps will only make balance worse in the short term than it already is as we've seen t1 frigs become more effective than even some t2 and faction frigs. This same issue will be present with cruisers and even more frigs once winter xpack goes live.

While I loved the idea of "tiericide" this power creep substitute is just going to end up creating more problems than it solves in the long term.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#514 - 2012-10-16 15:02:09 UTC
To much Damage bonuses for the rupture. Leaving the rupture as is now the king of the cruiser hill. Two damage bonuses and a full flight of small drones.....comon

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#515 - 2012-10-16 15:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Cruisers after these proposed changes will be as good or better than a armor-Rupture under warp scrambler range:

- Caracal
- Thorax
- Vexor
- Moa

Proposed cruisers that do more damage @ range compared to a shield-Rupture.

- Stabber (falloff bonus)
- Shield -Omen
- Caracal
- Bellicose

Note: a Thorax is as good as a shield-Rupture @ all of its operational range.

There's no arguments being made about the above NOT being the case. So if the propose Rupture is so OP. How can these cruisers be ALOT more powerfull in the aforementioned combat range? Most pilots commenting have nothing behind their statements other than a broad general, but wrong notion, perceived or otherwise, that Mimnatar are OP.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Lili Lu
#516 - 2012-10-16 15:28:26 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Pre-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones.

Post-tiericide thoughts: the Amarr only have one cruiser, and it only does damage with drones. Oh, and there's a logi cruiser. That's cool I guess.

But hey, the Arby's a little better, its immunity to unbonused scripted TDs is more pronounced, its skills are more useful with the new Crucifier and unnamed destroyer in mind. So it's not a loss. Just a lot less of a shake-up than I hoped.

Yeah the Maller will continue to be **** unless they give it some drones.X
Alara IonStorm
#517 - 2012-10-16 15:44:01 UTC
Major Killz wrote:

- Thorax (Cap Dependent Weapon, Shorter Range Blasters, Bad Tracking Rails)
- Vexor (Slower)
- Moa (Slower)
- Caracal (Low Frigate Defenses)
Stabber (falloff bonus) (No Drones for Frigates, Weak Damage, 1 Less Slot to fit a TE making falloff bonus moot, poor fitting.)
Shield -Omen (Heavily Cap Reliant)
Caracal (Same as above)
Bellicose (Damn the Bellicose is good.)

There's no arguments being made about the above NOT being the case.

Honestly though while the current Rupture isn't useless nor the best, I do not like it.

It is far to fast for a Combat Cruiser moving at the speed of attack cruisers, its double Dmg Bonus is with one less turret is an annoying attempt not to think of a real role.

I would prefer its HP go up closer to the other combat cruiser and it only edges them out in speed. Give it the full 5 Turrets, a second non Dmg Bonus and then move a low to a mid make its slot layout like the Nado. Maybe make it an Active Shield Ship like the Maelstrom or an Artillery Ship like the Munnin for a role.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#518 - 2012-10-16 15:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Aglais
Just to save people some grief, if you're just tuning in now, Major Killz has absolutely no idea what he is talking about, because the Rupture can field a similar level of shield tank as the Moa (thanks to the latter's lackluster midslot layout in part) while still being faster than every attack cruiser but the Stabber, and having a double damage bonus and more drones. And he also thinks that a dual LSE Moa with a MWD and a scrambler is superior to one with a web and larger guns. Doesn't work that way. I've tested.

Discourage him from posting in this forum, ignore his ramblings.

On topic: It's good to see that Fozzie is back. I sincerely hope that you're considering knocking the sixth highslot off the Moa, and turning it into a med, this is big here. And also greatly slashing the speed of the Rupture and/or maybe some of it's bonuses. Furthermore, the Maller getting a drone bay, perhaps 15 or 20 m3?
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#519 - 2012-10-16 15:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Major Killz wrote:

- Thorax (Cap Dependent Weapon, Shorter Range Blasters, Bad Tracking Rails)
- Vexor (Slower)
- Moa (Slower)
- Caracal (Low Frigate Defenses)
Stabber (falloff bonus) (No Drones for Frigates, Weak Damage, 1 Less Slot to fit a TE making falloff bonus moot, poor fitting.)
Shield -Omen (Heavily Cap Reliant)
Caracal (Same as above)
Bellicose (Damn the Bellicose is good.)

There's no arguments being made about the above NOT being the case.

Honestly though while the current Rupture isn't useless nor the best, I do not like it.

It is far to fast for a Combat Cruiser moving at the speed of attack cruisers, its double Dmg Bonus is with one less turret is an annoying attempt not to think of a real role.

I would prefer its HP go up closer to the other combat cruiser and it only edges them out in speed. Give it the full 5 Turrets, a second non Dmg Bonus and then move a low to a mid make its slot layout like the Nado. Maybe make it an Active Shield Ship like the Maelstrom or an Artillery Ship like the Munnin for a role.



Well @tleast your honest. Can't say the same about most of the players who post here, because some of this h8 is not based on facts. Also, giving it a active tack bonus is not anything new. I mean, that's not even out of the box. Anyway, all combat cruisers (as discribed by CCP) are focused on damage and tank. Thier more like Tier 2 battlecruisers. If CCP give it a active tank bonus, then they may throw one on the Thorax or Vexor too. Which wouldn't make alot of sense since everyone is crying about range and kiting.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#520 - 2012-10-16 16:03:45 UTC
The rupture needs to be an armour boat as all the other cruisers are shield based the rupture needs to be a stepping stone for armour tanking hurricane and typhoon so maybe a mixture of projectile and missile bonuses would make sense as it already has the drone element those 2 have an maybe if some iteration on rifter being the first along this line might be a useful line to follow.
Just a thought on improving the flavour of ships away from relentless shield kiting setups that are being seemingly promoted atm all but the amarr combat cruisers can shield tank wheres the racial flavour in that?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using