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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#601 - 2012-10-16 04:16:29 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Like I said before; kill rights should be equal to the ISK destroyed that made the kill right possible. Once the total ISK has been destroyed, then the kill right is fulfilled.


This is a sensible idea.

That simply won't do...Ugh

Ni.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#602 - 2012-10-16 04:23:57 UTC
How is taking player choice out of the equation a good idea?

Not that I'm defending the kill rights system in its proposed form, I think this would make it even worse.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#603 - 2012-10-16 04:39:10 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Like I said before; kill rights should be equal to the ISK destroyed that made the kill right possible. Once the total ISK has been destroyed, then the kill right is fulfilled.

I didn't see you say it before. And honestly, at 600+ posts in this thread, and with a casual glance at the first of *50* pages of your posts, I suspect I'm very unlikely to find the place where you did originally say it. So, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on why you believe the above is best?

MDD
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#604 - 2012-10-16 04:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
How is taking player choice out of the equation a good idea?

Not that I'm defending the kill rights system in its proposed form, I think this would make it even worse.



How would it remove player choice, exactly?

Especially given that you can gain the KR on, and/or eliminate the KR with alts you don't care about (unless you solo-ganked someone hauling 100 PLEX or something)?

Meh:

Doesn't seem like it would really change/effect much, now that I think about it, given that carebears will be carebears and never do a damned thing for themselves, as said elsewhere.

(Which compels the question, if CCP really wants this --completely unnecessary IMHO-- set of changes to work like that, then how does one "nerf carebear?")

Ni.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#605 - 2012-10-16 04:57:27 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:

(Which compels the question, if CCP really wants this --completely unnecessary IMHO-- set of changes to work like that, then how does one "nerf carebear?")

Why do they need to?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#606 - 2012-10-16 05:04:41 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
(Which compels the question, if CCP really wants this --completely unnecessary IMHO-- set of changes to work like that, then how does one "nerf carebear?")

Why would they want to "nerf carebear" anyway...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#607 - 2012-10-16 05:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
I don't know much about the topic as haven't read the devblog about new plans. However if even half what OP says is true and new bounty system is far from the one what was explained and voted in july 2011 crowd-sourcing prioritization - it will be total disaster and ruin another aspect of the game just when unified inventory and faction warfare are finally getting some repairs.

I just hope that CCP has learned enough not to reinvent the wheel when they have working solution available. I also hope that OP is missing some major information and that there is nothing to worry about. At least the warning bells are ringing again and should get some attention.

edit: now I have read the devblog and can confirm that CCP has another $hit$torm coming when this hits the fan. People gain kill rights too easily and can troll/mass gank people in hisec with them just for the kicks. There is no way people should end up being target practice dummies after shooting one volley to someone. It is like "I hit you with a fist once and you bring army to put me 6 feet under". Also setting funny "you're now fair game for all" flags without any warning sounds total overkill. People who have bounty hunters behind them surely don't need any random gcc flags just for the kicks.

You really want to break this game with one feature in every expansion?

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#608 - 2012-10-16 05:34:29 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
I don't know much about the topic as haven't read the devblog about new plans. However if even half what OP says is true and new bounty system is far from the one what was explained and voted in july 2011 crowd-sourcing prioritization - it will be total disaster and ruin another aspect of the game just when unified inventory and faction warfare are finally getting some repairs.

I just hope that CCP has learned enough not to reinvent the wheel when they have working solution available. I also hope that OP is missing some major information and that there is nothing to worry about. At least the warning bells are ringing again and should get some attention.

edit: now I have read the devblog and can confirm that CCP has another $hit$torm coming when this hits the fan. People gain kill rights too easily and can troll/mass gank people in hisec with them just for the kicks. There is no way people should end up being target practice dummies after shooting one volley to someone. It is like "I hit you with a fist once and you bring army to put me 6 feet under". Also setting funny "you're now fair game for all" flags without any warning sounds total overkill. People who have bounty hunters behind them surely don't need any random gcc flags just for the kicks.

You really want to break this game with one feature in every expansion?

OP and others just don't like the idea of getting "buried 6 foot under" after they put someone else 6 foot under.

All of which occurs in highsec incidentally. But one place of many.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#609 - 2012-10-16 05:35:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
(Which compels the question, if CCP really wants this --completely unnecessary IMHO-- set of changes to work like that, then how does one "nerf carebear?")

Why would they want to "nerf carebear" anyway...



[/Me smiles cynically] Why, indeed. "Money has no smell," eh?

I meant the mentality, though, not carebear-like activities.

Ni.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#610 - 2012-10-16 05:55:46 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
OP and others just don't like the idea of getting "buried 6 foot under" after they put someone else 6 foot under.

There's that trolling we were talking about earlier. Strawmanning is not the same as playing devil's advocate. I'm sure you know that. But that aside, we've mentioned countless times how this isn't a whine against consequences, but against an irrational "feature." Being afraid of getting killed has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#611 - 2012-10-16 06:17:26 UTC
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#612 - 2012-10-16 06:23:28 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?

How is it not rational? Things can't be destroyed?

Are you saying you have some kind of magic bubble around you that prevents stab wounds when you go outside?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#613 - 2012-10-16 06:28:43 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
OP and others just don't like the idea of getting "buried 6 foot under" after they put someone else 6 foot under.

There's that trolling we were talking about earlier. Strawmanning is not the same as playing devil's advocate. I'm sure you know that. But that aside, we've mentioned countless times how this isn't a whine against consequences, but against an irrational "feature." Being afraid of getting killed has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

lolz. What I'm trying to do is paraphrase 31 pages for the newcomers.

But no, seriously, this "irrational feature" is "bad for Eve" because it will affect YOU. You're not speaking on my behalf, you are not rescuing Eve from certain death ad nauseum by poasting and flaming opponents to your view.

It's a "feature" you don't like and I'm telling you why you don't like it.

From what I'm gleaning, most people will be happy to see it, ofc, EXCEPT by people who expect a free meal at the expense of others.

TL;DR; Make sure when you DO shoot someone that you (perhaps shouldn't), don't get caught in the "consequential retaliation".

THINK first. SHOOT after.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#614 - 2012-10-16 06:32:11 UTC
But I don't gank? How does it affect me again?

Well, I gank on an alt, but it's -10, so it can be shot by anyone already. The last time I ganked someone in high-sec on a non-dedicated character (this one) was over a year ago, as part of a contract.

Where's my personal bias?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#615 - 2012-10-16 06:32:52 UTC
Rational = 10 guys shoot 1 guy and concord kill 10 guys.

Irrational = magic button surprise outside trade hub makes you red because you webbed some random guys ship 25 days ago or shot someone's jetcan.

...because this is what the dev blog says if you understand what you read.

"Kill Rights will now be created at the same time a Criminal flag is put on a player, but only for attacking in hi sec or podding in low sec."

"you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally."

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#616 - 2012-10-16 06:38:30 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?

How is it not rational? Things can't be destroyed?

Are you saying you have some kind of magic bubble around you that prevents stab wounds when you go outside?


I must, since I go outside all the time, and don't have stab wounds.

EDIT: Also you using wierd arguments to prove your rationality as well.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#617 - 2012-10-16 06:47:48 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?

How is it not rational? Things can't be destroyed?

Are you saying you have some kind of magic bubble around you that prevents stab wounds when you go outside?


I must, since I go outside all the time, and don't have stab wounds.

EDIT: Also you using wierd arguments to prove your rationality as well.

You claim that ganking is an irrational feature, and I disagree with you based on the fact that we're playing a game in which we pilot massive ships full of guns, lasers, and missiles.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#618 - 2012-10-16 06:58:59 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?


It's not a "feature". It's a thing that happens when A has stuff that B wants and B feels like he's able to take it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#619 - 2012-10-16 07:03:09 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?

How is it not rational? Things can't be destroyed?

Are you saying you have some kind of magic bubble around you that prevents stab wounds when you go outside?


I must, since I go outside all the time, and don't have stab wounds.

EDIT: Also you using wierd arguments to prove your rationality as well.

You claim that ganking is an irrational feature, and I disagree with you based on the fact that we're playing a game in which we pilot massive ships full of guns, lasers, and missiles.


So the mad strategy is not so mad, since the US and Russian both had nukes, so its not big deal to be nuked, and we should have done that a long time ago. Its too late now, with Putin being half naked most of the time.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#620 - 2012-10-16 07:06:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ How is ganking not an irrational "feature" though?


It's not a "feature". It's a thing that happens when A has stuff that B wants and B feels like he's able to take it.


Someone said kill rights being transferable was irrational. So with your definition it is rational and acceptable to happen to people.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne