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Cruise missile V or Caldari BS V
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Threshner
#1 - 2012-10-15 22:58:12 UTC
I am currently leveling Cruises to level 5 for the T2 missile launchers. The thing is my CNR already uses Caldari navy launchers which i literally just checked and seemed to beat T2 launchers by 2 seconds in the ROF category. I am still 13 days away from T2 launchers should i even bother finishing Cruise missile to 5 before i get Caladari BS to 5?

I do not plan to move to a Golem when i get caldari BS to 5. I am just trying to maximize my CNR's skill and turret effectiveness.
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2012-10-15 23:08:11 UTC
Tough choice if you plan to role a Golem with Torpedo's. They will be affected by Guided Missile Precision Skill soon so that will be a big buff and the Javelin's will no longer lower speed.

If you take Cruise V you get 5% +6-8 more taking the Spec skill to 3 or 4 + Fury Cruise Missiles with Rigors and a Painter add solid DPS when firing on Battleships.

My personal opinion is do it because if you are doing Lvl 4's because some missions like Worlds Collide 1st room and others have 100+ KM Spawns that the Golem will be slowed reaching. That and their are a few missions with a high Cruiser count that a Rigor CNR would just plain be better for. For a relatively short train you get a big buff to your CNR. If you plan on a complete switch over then maybe it would be best to focus on Torp Golem Skills.
Postitute
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-10-16 01:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Postitute
Getting Cruise missiles to 5 will do the following for you:

  • Give you 5% more damage to all cruise missiles
  • Open up tech 2 Fury Cruise missiles - massive add to your DPS against larger ships


Caldari BS 5 is a great skill, but it's a long train and it sounds like you've already got a good chunk of the training for t2 cruise missiles behind you.

Edit: Removed number one - as others pointed out - spec skills make t2 guns better than their faction counter parts, but not the same for launchers.

Also for consideration, if your fitting skills aren't that great, CN launchers have lower grid requirements I think - pretty substantial iirc.

I still can't imagine life without Fury missiles though Smile
Arec Bardwin
#4 - 2012-10-16 01:18:15 UTC
Also consider that fury cruise missiles get a nice 5% boost to dps and a 6% reduction of explosion radius for christmas patch.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#5 - 2012-10-16 01:30:33 UTC
Honestly it all depends if you plan on using T2 ammo or not. If you don't plan on using T2 ammo, just pick whatever is the shorter train. CN have better RoF than T2 launchers even with max skills, if just by a hair. T2 launchers are cheaper though.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#6 - 2012-10-16 01:51:01 UTC
Also consider if you are going to train for Carrier and / or Dread. If you are, you will need V in BS.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-10-16 02:07:00 UTC
Postitute wrote:
Getting Cruise missiles to 5 will do the following for you:

  • Unlock the Cruise Missile Specialization skill, which will make the tech 2 RoF faster than CN launchers
  • Give you 5% more damage to all cruise missiles
  • Open up tech 2 Fury Cruise missiles - massive add to your DPS against larger ships


1 is actually wrong (as already noted in the thread). Faction guns end up with a lower damage mod than T2 after figuring in the spec skill to 3 or higher (and note that gun specs change damage mod). Faction launchers (the good ones at least; DG and CN) will always have a better RoF than T2 launchers (and note that launcher specs increase RoF rather than changing raw damage).

The other benefits stand though.
Threshner
#8 - 2012-10-16 02:36:10 UTC
I guess i will go ahead and finish cruises to V. I am a little weary about using t2 for the soul fact that i would need to buy SO much ammo for so many different missions. Then you have different ammo for ship types not for specific ranges like every other races.

That is a great deal of money to be efficient compared to other races.
Alara IonStorm
#9 - 2012-10-16 03:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Threshner wrote:
I guess i will go ahead and finish cruises to V. I am a little weary about using t2 for the soul fact that i would need to buy SO much ammo for so many different missions. Then you have different ammo for ship types not for specific ranges like every other races.

That is a great deal of money to be efficient compared to other races.

You would be surprised how cheap it is. Furies are about 750 ISK a piece and you only need Kin, EM, EXP in quantities needed for agent layout. I use Amarr Agents so I keep about 5000 EM, 3000 Kin, 1500 Exp. Then for standards I keep about the same at 200 ISK a Missile totaling around 10 Mil for Ammo that lasts me about 15-30 Missions depending on the size killing everything.

When I used Barrage in my Maelstrom it was much more expensive at 1000 ISK a shot with a 3 sec RoF. Cruise Missiles a single load of 189 Missiles will last 4-6 Battleships for Fury or 3-4 Battleships standard while Battlecruiser and Cruisers it is around 7-8 and 27 for Destroyers even. Overall Cruise Missile Prices are in good shape.

Overall it means that you don't need to buy any more ammo then a gun if you don't over buy one type. Finally you will get to sell those CN Launchers and replace them with nice cheap T2.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-10-16 04:16:45 UTC
Cruise launchers are totally useless for pretty much everything, BS 5 is not.
Train BS 5 and use torp on your BSs, not cruise.

There is no Bob.

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Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#11 - 2012-10-16 06:28:18 UTC
If you are going to go for a capital and are not in a rush, CCP has hinted that they will change the capitals to requires bs4 and not bs5 in the end. That however... is coming next year so if you want one earlier, you might need bs5.

Also, aren't all fury missiles range being reduced more than half in the next expansion?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Even so, i would still train cruise missiles 5 for the damage boost and optional t2 missiles later on.
Alara IonStorm
#12 - 2012-10-16 06:50:08 UTC
Denal Umbra wrote:

Also, aren't all fury missiles range being reduced more than half in the next expansion?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

If by half you mean they will only fly to 84km / 128km w/ Vol Bonus then yes, their range will be halved with more Accuracy, No Ship Penalty and Damage...

I will definitely not crying any tears for that trade off personally. Big smile
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#13 - 2012-10-16 07:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Denal Umbra
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Denal Umbra wrote:

Also, aren't all fury missiles range being reduced more than half in the next expansion?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

If by half you mean they will only fly to 84km / 128km w/ Vol Bonus then yes, their range will be halved with more Accuracy, No Ship Penalty and Damage...

I will definitely not crying any tears for that trade off personally. Big smile


Edit: Reread the part about range and yes, i was wrong. I double-dipped and assumed ALL missile range was being reduced by 25% as well. 84/128k is more than enough. Still not sold on the accuracy bonus tho. It will make bc/cruisers take a bit more but the damage boost might make up for it.

[quote]
Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-10-16 13:28:31 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Cruise launchers are totally useless for pretty much everything, BS 5 is not.
Train BS 5 and use torp on your BSs, not cruise.


Cruise work a lot better than torps for a CNR. T2 Cruise make the CNR pretty effective, if dull, at missions. The important thing is to fit a full rack of Rigors, and to switch to T1 ammo after you've cleared out the BS/BCs.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#15 - 2012-10-16 13:45:19 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Also consider that fury cruise missiles get a nice 5% boost to dps and a 6% reduction of explosion radius for christmas patch.


Faction ammo will still be better. By miles.

Faction launchers and Faction ammo always for PVE unless you're a smelly tramp.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2012-10-16 15:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
John Ratcliffe wrote:

Faction ammo will still be better. By miles.

Faction launchers and Faction ammo always for PVE unless you're a smelly tramp.

This is false.

Furies with 3 Rigors and a Painter do full Dmg to Battleship sized targets and great Dmg to Battlecruiser sized targets which is higher then faction ammo currently and will do an addition 5% after the expansion. At the same time it is cheaper to fire.

If you are dealing with a chain of Battleships / BC it is faster and cheaper to switch to Fury Missiles.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#17 - 2012-10-16 17:14:48 UTC
Postitute wrote:
Getting Cruise missiles to 5 will do the following for you:

  • Give you 5% more damage to all cruise missiles
  • Open up tech 2 Fury Cruise missiles - massive add to your DPS against larger ships


Caldari BS 5 is a great skill, but it's a long train and it sounds like you've already got a good chunk of the training for t2 cruise missiles behind you.


Actually, going from CM IV to CMV is only a 4.16% increase in missile DPS (125%/120%), while going from Caldari BS IV to Caldari BS V is a 6.67% increase in missile DPS (80%/75%).

If OP is already going down the missile route, getting both skills eventually is virtually a must. If not, stop training cruise missiles immediately.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-10-16 20:46:22 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:

Faction ammo will still be better. By miles.

Faction launchers and Faction ammo always for PVE unless you're a smelly tramp.

This is false.

Furies with 3 Rigors and a Painter do full Dmg to Battleship sized targets and great Dmg to Battlecruiser sized targets which is higher then faction ammo currently and will do an addition 5% after the expansion. At the same time it is cheaper to fire.

If you are dealing with a chain of Battleships / BC it is faster and cheaper to switch to Fury Missiles.



Meanwhile the CNR can carry plenty of scout drones to deal with frigates and even start nomming on cruisers.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Threshner
#19 - 2012-10-16 21:49:33 UTC
Most of the information in this thread has been a great help! I am still going for cruise missile to 5 and plan to do battleship 5 next. Although its no mach or nightmare, the CNR allows you to hit any rat in the game at very good damage at a very far range. I consider it possible (in my opinion) the best PVE boat in the game but that's just me, i like the thing!

I have made my decision but feel free to keep posting! The more information the people get from this the better =).