EVE General Discussion

I don't really care what's done, but I do like to see CCP mix up the balance of resources in null and empire. It gives me plenty of speculative market activity to profit from.

If you call "decent income" 25 to 30M an hour playing for the regular player, and not the nerd with his alts all day long in front of the computer because plex cost 600M+...



Well this is not a big news, every one knows the gazillions lp/isk exploit leading to nega wallets because exploit and a fake fix that made it less milk cow but it's still ridiculous at the point all the null sec alts previously running high sec and null sec incursions are all speed tanking FW sites.
Hope at some point CCP just does what's right and make it so wallets get hurt enough to make sort some players understand that instant gratification with no effort should be in high sec and not for null sec alts (notice direct sarcasm to some loud mouths always claiming their innocence in this very same forum)



As hard to believe this might actually seem to random low sec/high sec pawn, this is a pure truth. If you're not the over gazillions rich players rating mazes with your 5+billions Tengu+other alt you can barely, get out of a +5 upgraded system belt rating 15M with about 10 belts and have to deal with rats jamming/scraming/webbing+eventual hostile logging or jumping in the system.
Risk vs reward in null sec is absolutely ridiculous in this important part that the reward for the regular grunt killing some rats has to work thousand times more than the one doing rare sites or the one running lvl3 in low sec or FW sites. Null sec grinding is a business of already well established guys, other are grunts and have grunt rewards with higher taxes overall than random low/high sec pawn. Those rare extreme profitable sites/officer/omega implants farmers are of course the already highest alliance/corporation leaders who already pay the lowest tax thx to all the "pay"&"free plex" system.



Thing is that without some sort of "CTA" or massive player engagement to clean up the place it's just impossible for the random grunt to go over there and do some stuff. Far too many empty space in null sec because no one wants it (why? -because there's nothing to win there), then NPC space is the paradise land of OMEGA+high grade implants, it's just a billions reward with little effort for locals protected by NPC stations to stay there for ever and wait with no consequences other than loosing a couple LP.
Random Null sec grunt once again, has no chance whatsoever to get in to some place, stick for a couple hours and get enough isk to cover his week losses. Random grunt has to grind poor bounty/isk/loot rabbits for hours and days before he can recover a single B loss unless it's an unemployed dude playing 12hours a day. (at least)

This being said, doesn't mean you can't win isk when you're a random grunt with couple hours week playing, but for sure you're income is ridiculous considering the risk and the effort you need to put in to ever make out of it something decent.

Over all, Zadgul, despite some of my points looking somewhat different of yours I mostly agree with your point of view and ideas to make null sec a better place for the random grunt that should be. This would probably require a lot of revamping, far too much revamping because you know already as I do the actual system already profiting to players that can afford with not even a second thought to buy titan pilots+ship is the same that aloud those dudes to tax at criminal rates the regular grunt that can barely offer himself the pleasure to fit a simple faction web/point because he will not be reimbursed for whatever stupid reason.
Corporation/alliance holding should give players in it a much better control than this ridiculous "I'm better than you because I deserve better than you but I log in just to tell and yell crap at you, then go play world of tanks. Cya next week"

It's funny, because this has been a topic of discussion on the forums since 2004!

My own perspective (haven't played continuously since then, but played from 2004-2007 and then on and off since then) is that it isn't that people are driven by greed so much as it is that people are very much of very different personality types when it comes to appetite for risk. Most people, even most EVE players, are not lovers of risk. Sure, there are many, many, many things you can do to lower the risk when you are in null or lowsec. But many players are not going to take the risk because they do not like being blown up, or they do not like having to worry about being blown up that much, or they do not like having to dodge and safespot and watch their backs and so on. It's all about risk appetite. I honestly do think that if you de facto nerfed hisec by making the rewards in losec and null so profitable that hisec is basically one big waste of time in terms of market prices and so on, many people will just leave rather than moving into losec and null. Personally, I've done the hisec, losec, nullsec thing, and these are my observations of the playerbase of the game over the years. It's not so much about greed -- it's about risk appetite, enjoyment (or not) of that kind of risk and so on.

These numbers are questionable, since a pimped tengu running anomalies gets about that much. Unless you mean "when I got that 10 million ISK faction spawn I got 60m/hr". But eh, whatever. You're right that the reason ratting bounties have been nerfed was to curb inflation: CCP should consider adding other unique resources to nullsec. I've proposed something like nerfing rat bounties and adding CONCORD LP for every NPC kill (with a buff to CONCORD store options) as an idea to deal with inflation. CCP could do something else, but a flat increase to bounties is clearly not what they want.



Yes, unique resources that have demand could help, simply pumping more won't. See how well wormholes have it in terms of income: that's risk/reward done right, especially since the content itself is more challenging. The ore imbalance thread is a better topic for the particulars of mining, there's an issue that the grav belts in nullsec give these highends only, even when players might like lowends to do industry.



Moving towards predominantly pos-based production with highsec and lowsec station industry facilities being as limited as nullsec ones? Hell, it's a solution that could work. Our finance team has really wanted to have VFK (goonswarm's capital) be even bigger in terms of market transactions. If people were selling minerals & components and stuff at VFK instead of only ship equipment, ammo, and hulls shipped in from highsec we'd get more revenue from there.



Once again ratting income was nerfed allegedly because of inflation, solution is to buff ratting in a way that doesn't just introduce more raw ISK.

But I would prefer a comprehensive approach, and I and many nullseccers do actually enjoy the industry side of the equation. Perhaps there are less in the "elite pvp" alliances, but considering a good amount of member corps in goonswarm draw from out of game we get all kinds of folks. If nullsec industry was viable one of my character's 12 million science SP and 5 million industry sp might be actually used for something. I'm honestly considering a highsec POS in an unaffiliated corp to do some actual industry with how bad things are now.

Something that should be noted is that income related to sov-holding and nullsec industry are the most underwhelming. Moon income is good (though only viable in certain regions), from what I've heard pirate NPC missions are nice if you can run them relatively safely/befriend the locals, and exploration is pretty good but sites are very limited until you go out into the boonies (which is kind of the point of exploration, so that's fine). Wormholes are similarly great from what I've heard. None of this requires taking sov, though. Which is kind of a problem if you want people waging wars to take over space for anything but *****, giggles, and bragging rights.

This right here is the most important part, conflict is one of the things that makes the game attractive. Neglecting nullsec/lowsec in favor of pandering to the red-cross shooting fetishists, apathetic autopiloters, or malignant afk miners is not the way to improve the game. Great wars get people excited and give them reason to come out to nullsec they also generate a lot of free advertising for the game. Unfortunately they won't occur unless there is a reason for them to occur and right now like Zhade said the only reason are social reasons. Basically fix nullsec income on the individual level, fix the sov system and fix non-highsec industry.

If Ordinary Guys would stop playing EvE all by their little lonesomes this wouldn't be an issue.

Got Friends?

1) As a nutcase ex-indy, never used a station to manufacture anyway.
2) What, put noughts and crosses on the roids to see if you can win tic-tac-toe?
3) It is.
4) In highsec. Why? Gankers for example don't show red until AFTER - that's an intrinsic delay. And really. If you hate local. Go live in a WH.

The Incursion might be able to be farmed for hours on end (but i thought they nerfed that in the last expansion and/or patch) but the same cannot be said about Lvl 4s. You want more? Wait until downtime and let everything respawn so you can do it all over again the next day. If you kill the mission complete trigger, too bad, no respawn. There is no farming a 4 for hours, but I'm sure you knew that.

I'll tell you what's downright laughable though...making the claim that all players make 200 million plus per hour with Lvl 4s. You're smoking something, plain and simple. Stop with the misinformation, it's embarrassing to the legacy of this great game. There is minimal reward for minimal risk, pretty much as it should be. We are not all bathing in fountains of isk in empire space, we make some money, and buy some things (often the modules from nulsec, would you like that isk to dry up for you?) and play the game that we pay for. We make enough money to be on par with the ships we fly and the work we do, with no guarantee of safety or protection by a point number designation.

Hatred for us is what drives these tactics, nothing more. I've seen five Hulkageddons, Ice Interdictions, ganks, so on and so forth in hisec for years. You don't want our types, and I understand that. We don't play the game right, we don't engage the sandbox as we are thought that we should. This is nothing new, and after 4 plus years, I recognize these posts when I see them. And slowly, you are winning.

Lvl 4 income has been nerfed, drops have been nerfed, and empire swims in a sea of scrap metal. And the day when what I and mine do carries no point whatsoever to continue doing, it will be off to another game. Why this is so difficult to understand is beyond me. Your continued assault upon a way of life for many is seeing results, the effects are noticed...



We noticed it, and many other things, months ago, and while we were upset that sand was being removed, we continued to play. We continued our game even as the Littles continued unabated in their quest to bring down the sky. If one of us made complaint of such things upon these pages, ten of our counterparts swooped in and claimed that we were trying to break the game and make it "safe". Quoting archaic phrases that are so meaningless now to be obsolete, some holy tome is being thumped violently in an attempt to convert the masses and pull the wool blanket up further and further. But we aren't stupid, and why catch phrases are still being employed to "lure" people to fabled riches baffles me.

I suppose it weeds out the simple minded and brings to the forefront the simple worker willing to work for peanuts as his master enjoy all the rewards with very little of the risks.

Har har. I bow before your cleverness. I actually do live in W-space. It's so good it needs to happen Everywhere.

EvE is interesting because of conflict. Empire is to conflict what a fat girl is to her hot friend you're trying to chat up. **** block.

If risk and reward is to be compared to a stick and carrot. Empire is a twenty pound carrot cake dangling from a chopstick.

Empire needs more stick and less carrot. As you can see all the fat kids go where the cake is.

The disgusting fat-bodies need some exercise.

Ironic, a member of the most entitled alliance calling hi sec players entitled, and shitlord as well, talking with a goon is like being in high school all over again and having to deal with knuckle dragging teenage boys, fun times.