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More buffing, less nerfing

Author
Tanthos
Tanthos Corp
#1 - 2012-10-15 21:40:58 UTC
When dealing with balance issues, I'd rather ccp buffed ships and mods, rather than nerfed them. For example, buffing other ships to match the drake and hurricane, rather than nerfing those ships, or buffing other ammo and tech to match missile advantage, rather than just nerfing missiles.

It would enhance immersion, and provide a feeling of tech advancement. For example, due to the Hurricane's success, other manufacturer's finally manage to reverse engineer and duplicate its power grid layout. It would also provide a better impression of the game going forward, rather than back. Also, getting better ships for free is always a good feeling, and might be better received than nerfing popular ships.
Nanatoa
#2 - 2012-10-15 21:43:16 UTC
Yeah we need an endless buff cycle so we can get more Infinity+1 items. ((Warning: tvtropes.org link))

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#3 - 2012-10-15 21:43:52 UTC
Tanthos wrote:
When dealing with balance issues, I'd rather ccp buffed ships and mods, rather than nerfed them. For example, buffing other ships to match the drake and hurricane, rather than nerfing those ships, or buffing other ammo and tech to match missile advantage, rather than just nerfing missiles.

It would enhance immersion, and provide a feeling of tech advancement. For example, due to the Hurricane's success, other manufacturer's finally manage to reverse engineer and duplicate its power grid layout. It would also provide a better impression of the game going forward, rather than back. Also, getting better ships for free is always a good feeling, and might be better received than nerfing popular ships.

Most of the ships that have been rebalanaced so far have been/are being buffed considerably. BC's were pretty out of whack not only with each other but with the rest of the ship classes.
Most of the Missiles are being buffed as well, the only one being brought into line with all the other weapons in game are the heavy missiles.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#4 - 2012-10-15 21:51:32 UTC
It's easier to nerf the one or two things that are "out of line" with everything else than to bring everything else up to the same level.

Oh yeah... "power creep" is something best avoided.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#5 - 2012-10-15 21:52:13 UTC
Isn't a buff just a nerf to everything else?

Also, haven't most of the rebalances so far been buffs?
Reicine Ceer
Aurora Empire
Brotherhood of Spacers
#6 - 2012-10-15 21:59:05 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
"power creep"


CCP said in... something/somewhere/somewhen.... that "power creep" was something they specifically wanted to avoid. Plus, by buffing certain things, you'll end up eliminating a ship's worthiness in comparison to others, when buffing ends up with overlap.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#7 - 2012-10-15 22:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Nerfing and buffing leads to the same outcome across the board. Nerfing just leads to all items with lesser values. One thing EvE is not short on, place values.
Either is acceptable for a balance goal, yet the path chosen tends to be which one requires less work. Do 95% of items need a buff, or just 5% of items need a nerf.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2012-10-15 22:13:24 UTC
Tanthos wrote:
When dealing with balance issues, I'd rather ccp buffed ships and mods, rather than nerfed them. .


you realize that ccp buffed almost every ship up to cruisers after the retribution patch?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-15 22:16:45 UTC
power creep, this is a bad idea

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Katsami
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-10-15 22:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsami
Ship balancing in my EVE?

I'd much rather more clothing for my Bar... err avatars.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#11 - 2012-10-15 22:41:59 UTC
Nerf HML missiles.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-10-15 22:54:35 UTC
Tanthos wrote:
When dealing with balance issues, I'd rather ccp buffed ships and mods, rather than nerfed them. For example, buffing other ships to match the drake and hurricane, rather than nerfing those ships, or buffing other ammo and tech to match missile advantage, rather than just nerfing missiles.


-Missiles are getting buff, not nerf.

-Hurricane despite some kind of apparent "nerf" is actually getting also a nice buff as long as you look at it differently.

-Drake/Tengu are getting a tremendous buff at the point you actually might forget the "shoot from there" from now on and actually avoid to get closer if you don't want to taste the huge buff short range missiles are getting.

Quote:
It would enhance immersion, and provide a feeling of tech advancement. For example, due to the Hurricane's success, other manufacturer's finally manage to reverse engineer and duplicate its power grid layout. It would also provide a better impression of the game going forward, rather than back. Also, getting better ships for free is always a good feeling, and might be better received than nerfing popular ships.



On this point and at least at this right moment, only attack and support cruisers next revamp eventual changes are available on dedicated dev blog.
Until battlecruisers dev blog is out, and information related to these other than the already more or less stated changes that will hit some popular ships, no one can predict something else than a much needed small nerf to battlecruisers over all efficiency, and for some of them (T1) probably enough changes so they become actually worth flying.
T2 battle cruisers are also in need of deep changes, be it in boosting, dps, tanking and of course important mobility.

Next T1 cruisers seem already in the good route to become a nice and valuable choice for multiple purposes, I'm waiting for BC changes expecting at some point their mobility/dmg projection nerf and after this the most important part for me, because this was my first goal: Battleships revamping! yey

brb

Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#13 - 2012-10-15 22:56:30 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Nerf HML missiles.


Yeah, cause, like, they are totally overpowered. Like, totally.

Another unnecessary nerf to missiles, for whatever reason. For player driven, CCP likes to break things on the car.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#14 - 2012-10-15 23:19:44 UTC
Nerf buffs, then buff nerfs. Problems = solved.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-10-15 23:29:55 UTC
I've made this exact argument that the reason drakes are used so often is because other races (minus the Hurricane) lack the ships in the same class to compete.

It's quite simple:

Buff the Harbi with more CPU and better cap efficiency.

Buff the myrm so it has more drone bandwith and can field 5 heavies or sentrys.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#16 - 2012-10-16 04:19:21 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
...and after this the most important part for me, because this was my first goal: Battleships revamping! yey

This. Oh yea. Remembering the days of when the pirates we feared were rolling around in rofl stomping battleships and then finally getting up there myself. Was one hell of a goal to reach and felt worth the effort put into it.

Yea. Battleship revamp. Looking forward to seeing these on gates again instead of the standard flavor today of, "Oh look. Yet another gang of drakes and hurricanes on gate."

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#17 - 2012-10-16 05:20:29 UTC
Smiknight wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Nerf HML missiles.


Yeah, cause, like, they are totally overpowered. Like, totally.

Another unnecessary nerf to missiles, for whatever reason. For player driven, CCP likes to break things on the car.

Yeah... that's why nobody ever uses them.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#18 - 2012-10-16 05:32:40 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Smiknight wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Nerf HML missiles.


Yeah, cause, like, they are totally overpowered. Like, totally.

Another unnecessary nerf to missiles, for whatever reason. For player driven, CCP likes to break things on the car.

Yeah... that's why nobody ever uses them.


No need to feed the troll, Ranger 1

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#19 - 2012-10-16 05:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Tanthos wrote:
When dealing with balance issues, I'd rather ccp buffed ships and mods, rather than nerfed them. For example, buffing other ships to match the drake and hurricane, rather than nerfing those ships, or buffing other ammo and tech to match missile advantage, rather than just nerfing missiles.


Don't worry, after the nerf, we can start our "nerf them now" campaign. After that is done, they can start their petitions to nerf us back. Like the old UO forums, the fighting can just rage, flame, and grow with calls for nerfs until the forums are simply shut down while the player-base is at each others throats. Meanwhile other broken things remain broken, like FW and defenders.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#20 - 2012-10-16 05:47:11 UTC
^ Sadly only most players fly OP drakes and canes around, not all.

So that scenario probably won't happen, but good luck.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

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