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Specific Examples of Where Risk Should Be Inserted Successfully Into High-sec

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#581 - 2012-10-15 09:19:35 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Safety:
9 years ago, CONCORD didn't exist (see m0o).
After its introduction, it was initially tankable (see Zombies smartbombing Yulai).


Profitability:
The introduction of l4s
Exhumers instead of mining in Battleships
Incursions


HS is significantly safer and more profitable than it was 9 years ago.

My my, your strawman is pretty damn flimsy if people can basically see though it.

Highsec: The way of the future.

You do realize those items listed under profitability are also available in low and null sec right? And more profitable.

yeah good point marlona, why don't you just autopilot over to the nearest nullsec incursion system in your marauder and start raking in the fat loot

in your case, that'd be located in malpais

Courteous, helpful, and concise!

I especially like that it is also factual! Lol

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#582 - 2012-10-15 15:43:44 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Safety:
9 years ago, CONCORD didn't exist (see m0o).
After its introduction, it was initially tankable (see Zombies smartbombing Yulai).


Profitability:
The introduction of l4s
Exhumers instead of mining in Battleships
Incursions


HS is significantly safer and more profitable than it was 9 years ago.

My my, your strawman is pretty damn flimsy if people can basically see though it.

Highsec: The way of the future.

You do realize those items listed under profitability are also available in low and null sec right? And more profitable.

yeah good point marlona, why don't you just autopilot over to the nearest nullsec incursion system in your marauder and start raking in the fat loot

in your case, that'd be located in malpais


I know you are trying to paint this grim picture of null sec income being so bad that everyone there is dirt poor and everyone in high sec is showered with ISK by simply logging in. It may work for those who don't know better, but I have no issue chiming in and pointing out where you or anyone else is stretching the truth or flat out lying.


I don't mind suggestions to the game that encourages players in high sec to willingly want to put their ship in harms way for some PvP action. Just be honest about the facts in this game when you are trying to support an idea.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#583 - 2012-10-15 16:11:54 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
~terrible pubbie posts~


Way to miss what the thread is about. The problem is highsec risk has been ever decreasing and its reward ever increasing. Lots of us want highsec to either have more risk or less reward. I'll let you read the title of this thread and try to figure out what its about.

Maybe you should ask Elo Knight to read it to you though, NC. is only competent/literate when Elo Knight is around.

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Josef Djugashvilis
#584 - 2012-10-15 17:27:49 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Shocked

Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all.


My, what a large space you seem to have between your ears. Your head seems to be full of null-secSmile

I just do not understand the 'pixel hardman' obsession with hi-sec.

Don't like hi-sec?

Don't go there.

Just do whatever it is you do in null and have a good time.

Easy really.

This is not a signature.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#585 - 2012-10-15 18:14:28 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Shocked

Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all.


My, what a large space you seem to have between your ears. Your head seems to be full of null-secSmile

I just do not understand the 'pixel hardman' obsession with hi-sec.

Don't like hi-sec?

Don't go there.

Just do whatever it is you do in null and have a good time.

Easy really.

Don't like what's being posted in a thread about the benefits of adding risk to high-sec?

Take your own advice. Don't go there.

You're liable to just form a baseless, insubstantiable claim of generality about an entire group of players.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#586 - 2012-10-15 18:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

You do realize those items listed under profitability are also available in low and null sec right? And more profitable.

yeah good point marlona, why don't you just autopilot over to the nearest nullsec incursion system in your marauder and start raking in the fat loot

in your case, that'd be located in malpais


I know you are trying to paint this grim picture of null sec income being so bad that everyone there is dirt poor and everyone in high sec is showered with ISK by simply logging in. It may work for those who don't know better, but I have no issue chiming in and pointing out where you or anyone else is stretching the truth or flat out lying.


I don't mind suggestions to the game that encourages players in high sec to willingly want to put their ship in harms way for some PvP action. Just be honest about the facts in this game when you are trying to support an idea.

Speaking of 'being honest about the facts', why don't you answer my question? It wasn't rhetorical.

Again, why don't you climb in the most expensive ratting ship you have and fly over to the nearest nullsec incursion (Malpais) and start grinding away? Like how the highsec pilot can with any incursion located in highsec. According to you, doing so would be 'more profitable' then doing a highsec incursion. So your course is clear, Marlona.

I'm just painting a vivid portrait of someone who claims that nullsec and highsec incursions are interchangeable.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#587 - 2012-10-15 19:21:34 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

You do realize those items listed under profitability are also available in low and null sec right? And more profitable.

yeah good point marlona, why don't you just autopilot over to the nearest nullsec incursion system in your marauder and start raking in the fat loot

in your case, that'd be located in malpais


I know you are trying to paint this grim picture of null sec income being so bad that everyone there is dirt poor and everyone in high sec is showered with ISK by simply logging in. It may work for those who don't know better, but I have no issue chiming in and pointing out where you or anyone else is stretching the truth or flat out lying.


I don't mind suggestions to the game that encourages players in high sec to willingly want to put their ship in harms way for some PvP action. Just be honest about the facts in this game when you are trying to support an idea.

Speaking of 'being honest about the facts', why don't you answer my question? It wasn't rhetorical.

Again, why don't you climb in the most expensive ratting ship you have and fly over to the nearest nullsec incursion (Malpais) and start grinding away? Like how the highsec pilot can with any incursion located in highsec. According to you, doing so would be 'more profitable' then doing a highsec incursion. So your course is clear, Marlona.

I'm just painting a vivid portrait of someone who claims that nullsec and highsec incursions are interchangeable.

Can't answer for her, but personally my lack of experience in how to get there alive and keep alive along with the fact that I don't have a trusted group to do it with make it prohibitive. That said there were goons who, prior to the escalation patch made out quite well annihilating NCO's in legion fleets in low/null incursions. I'm sure not having the ~30% (if i recall correctly) reduction that highsec gets helped quite well to. I must admit to not knowing if this is feasible now though.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#588 - 2012-10-15 19:24:59 UTC
Your frame of reference seems to indicate that the risk is higher in low/null than it is in high-sec and that it pays more to boot.

That's actually quite helpful indeed.

I guess they are not equivalent, after all.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#589 - 2012-10-15 21:22:25 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Speaking of 'being honest about the facts', why don't you answer my question? It wasn't rhetorical.

Again, why don't you climb in the most expensive ratting ship you have and fly over to the nearest nullsec incursion (Malpais) and start grinding away? Like how the highsec pilot can with any incursion located in highsec. According to you, doing so would be 'more profitable' then doing a highsec incursion. So your course is clear, Marlona.

I'm just painting a vivid portrait of someone who claims that nullsec and highsec incursions are interchangeable.

Can't answer for her, but personally my lack of experience in how to get there alive and keep alive along with the fact that I don't have a trusted group to do it with make it prohibitive. That said there were goons who, prior to the escalation patch made out quite well annihilating NCO's in legion fleets in low/null incursions. I'm sure not having the ~30% (if i recall correctly) reduction that highsec gets helped quite well to. I must admit to not knowing if this is feasible now though.

All I know is that goons aren't running incursions in legion fleets Catch or Malpais right now, and probably weren't pre-escalation patch either. Probably for the same reasons you don't.

(Spoiler: this is because ratting in pimp ships in hostile space is beyond stupid, and ratting in disposable ships effectively negates the 30% increased profit from just doing it in highsec)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#590 - 2012-10-15 21:48:37 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Speaking of 'being honest about the facts', why don't you answer my question? It wasn't rhetorical.

Again, why don't you climb in the most expensive ratting ship you have and fly over to the nearest nullsec incursion (Malpais) and start grinding away? Like how the highsec pilot can with any incursion located in highsec. According to you, doing so would be 'more profitable' then doing a highsec incursion. So your course is clear, Marlona.

I'm just painting a vivid portrait of someone who claims that nullsec and highsec incursions are interchangeable.

Can't answer for her, but personally my lack of experience in how to get there alive and keep alive along with the fact that I don't have a trusted group to do it with make it prohibitive. That said there were goons who, prior to the escalation patch made out quite well annihilating NCO's in legion fleets in low/null incursions. I'm sure not having the ~30% (if i recall correctly) reduction that highsec gets helped quite well to. I must admit to not knowing if this is feasible now though.

All I know is that goons aren't running incursions in legion fleets Catch or Malpais right now, and probably weren't pre-escalation patch either. Probably for the same reasons you don't.

(Spoiler: this is because ratting in pimp ships in hostile space is beyond stupid, and ratting in disposable ships effectively negates the 30% increased profit from just doing it in highsec)

Regardless of the specifics of the tools used there is no doubt that pre-escalation, there were nullsec entities, including goons probably, doing low/null incursions. I'm not claiming that everyone packed up and went halfway across the map to do them, which means those they had access to were possibly limited at any point in time, but evidence suggests they were done.

This evidence came in 2 forms: Nullsec/lowsec incursions with significant influence reduction and claims by individuals that the escalation nerf killed any possibility of them being feasible to run in those areas afterwards.

If they didn't run them why did they claim they did or give feedback that their ability to do so was severely diminished where feedback was solicited? And why did some claim that legions were used?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#591 - 2012-10-15 21:57:08 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The AFK Mining as EULA violation comes from CCP's insistence that AFK PVE Activities are EULA violations.

You on this again?

The EULA states using automated processes, code, macros ad nauseum is against the EULA.

Taking a **** or watching TV while playing Eve is NOT a violation - for the 1000th time.

Do we need a GM to clarify this for you?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#592 - 2012-10-15 21:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Regardless of the specifics of the tools used there is no doubt that pre-escalation, there were nullsec entities, including goons probably, doing low/null incursions. I'm not claiming that everyone packed up and went halfway across the map to do them, which means those they had access to were possibly limited at any point in time, but evidence suggests they were done.

Evidence like the proliferation of Revenant-class supercaps? (right now there are more Impocs out there then Revenants lol)
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#593 - 2012-10-15 21:59:22 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

The price drop of ice will demonstrate this clearly. Look it up.

Do your homework.

Look it up.....

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#594 - 2012-10-15 22:01:34 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Touval, you are the most cognitively impaired poster in recent memory. Please stop posting. Think of the children. Think of the world they will have to grow up in, filled with your words. Stop posting for their sake.


This is an important post.

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#595 - 2012-10-15 22:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Regardless of the specifics of the tools used there is no doubt that pre-escalation, there were nullsec entities, including goons probably, doing low/null incursions. I'm not claiming that everyone packed up and went halfway across the map to do them, which means those they had access to were possibly limited at any point in time, but evidence suggests they were done.

Evidence like the proliferation of Revenant-class supercaps? (right now there are more Impocs out there then Revenants lol)

Last check Revenant BPC's don't drop in null and they require someone willing to build/fly one. Considering the complaints about the ship the later may be lacking.

Edit: Selective quoting for the win I guess?
Asaryuu
Liquid Words
#596 - 2012-10-15 22:19:19 UTC
How come the Hardcore Null/Low sec elite pvpers are so worried about what a bear is doing in Hi Sec? Sandbox game FTW!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#597 - 2012-10-15 22:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Asaryuu wrote:
How come the Hardcore Null/Low sec elite pvpers are so worried about what a bear is doing in Hi Sec? Sandbox game FTW!


Single shard, its because what's done in highsec affects us out in nullsec. So when highsec becomes too rewarding and almost risk-less it adversely affects nullsec/lowsec. People are forced out of nullsec/lowsec because its far to easy to make what they were making in their old home. This cuts down on targets and leads to these vast swaths empty systems that people whine about.

Don't forget that lots of low/null people are aggravated because CCP has been neglecting those areas of the game in favor of highsec. While were on this subject the part that bothers people is that CCP has been decreasing the ways that highsec dwellers can be affected via agression nerfs.

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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#598 - 2012-10-15 22:28:15 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I know you are trying to paint this grim picture of null sec income being so bad that everyone there is dirt poor and everyone in high sec is showered with ISK by simply logging in. It may work for those who don't know better, but I have no issue chiming in and pointing out where you or anyone else is stretching the truth or flat out lying.


I don't mind suggestions to the game that encourages players in high sec to willingly want to put their ship in harms way for some PvP action. Just be honest about the facts in this game when you are trying to support an idea.


You must have noticed both are actually forgetting the important thing: one in high sec is actually an unemployed/student/whatever person playing far more hours a day than he should so indeed over all almost 100M in high sec IS SO FECKING HUGE....
The second (in null) scams in high sec/trades (in high sec of course) ganks freighters (in high sec again) uses high sec facilities with alt corporations and alts, then criticises all high sec..... but then gets his faction/ded fitted gank machine with a couple alts to clean Mazes in less than 30min, kill officers (noticed those are almost the same doing it?) and running pirate npc missions with other alts.

Indeed, high sec it's far too much profitable...for them. Not for the random grunt/player getting in to those regions who often loose more isk arriving there than they can win with a normal gaming time.

brb
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#599 - 2012-10-15 22:58:39 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

You must have noticed both are actually forgetting the important thing: one in high sec is actually an unemployed/student/whatever person playing far more hours a day than he should so indeed over all almost 100M in high sec IS SO FECKING HUGE....
The second (in null) scams in high sec/trades (in high sec of course) ganks freighters (in high sec again) uses high sec facilities with alt corporations and alts, then criticises all high sec..... but then gets his faction/ded fitted gank machine with a couple alts to clean Mazes in less than 30min, kill officers (noticed those are almost the same doing it?) and running pirate npc missions with other alts.

Indeed, high sec it's far too much profitable...for them. Not for the random grunt/player getting in to those regions who often loose more isk arriving there than they can win with a normal gaming time.


I don't even know what this is try again please this time with brevity and soundness.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#600 - 2012-10-15 23:47:59 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

You must have noticed both are actually forgetting the important thing: one in high sec is actually an unemployed/student/whatever person playing far more hours a day than he should so indeed over all almost 100M in high sec IS SO FECKING HUGE....
The second (in null) scams in high sec/trades (in high sec of course) ganks freighters (in high sec again) uses high sec facilities with alt corporations and alts, then criticises all high sec..... but then gets his faction/ded fitted gank machine with a couple alts to clean Mazes in less than 30min, kill officers (noticed those are almost the same doing it?) and running pirate npc missions with other alts.

Indeed, high sec it's far too much profitable...for them. Not for the random grunt/player getting in to those regions who often loose more isk arriving there than they can win with a normal gaming time.

I don't even know what this is try again please this time with brevity and soundness.

He means nullsec needs more nerfing, I think.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?