EVE General Discussion

I don't think they're unintelligent. They're simply misguided and/or dishonest about the direction they want to take.

Players like Lin-Young and Touval claim that the changes in their proposed form will lead to an increase in/betterment of pvp. I am not sure whether they think that sincerely, or whether saying something like this simply promotes their own agendas, whatever they may be. Either way, they refuse to even acknowledge our argument for why they are wrong. So, I will type it out here, in nice bold letters, so that they have no excuse to not address this point. Ready, everyone?

These changes will not affect us because will use alts to engage in criminal activities. We will use alts to suicide-gank, and we will use alts to flip peoples' cans.

In the case of suicide-ganking, our usage of alts will prevent loss and inconvenience because these alts are used in such a manner that they are only exposed to neutral players for very short periods of time, as in the couple of seconds they remain on grid after warping in but before CONCORD blows them up. These alts are already outlaws, and are disposable (as in, we do not care about further security status losses or killboard stats). Their ships are also disposable, so even if the alts get hit by players before CONCORD arrives, the loss is minimal and negligible.

In the case of can-flipping, the alts will flip miners'/missioners' cans, then transfer the entire contents to their own cans, at which point our mains will take from our alts' cans, and then transfer the contents to new cans. This way we will still be able to remain suspect-neutral on our mains, while at most risking a shuttle or a frigate on our alts to accomplish the same thing that can be done today using our mains alone.

This is why these changes will not result to increased/better pvp. Our mains will never gain those suspect flags, and no one will be able to openly shoot them. The only people who will legitimately suffer are low-sec pvpers who travel to high-sec. In fact, that might cause some of them to rethink their low-sec pvp habits. This would lead to a net decrease in pvp.

The reasons given above are why you are wrong. I am not saying this as a bystanding speculator. I am saying this as a person whose activities have been 99% pvp for almost a decade. We have absolutely no incentive to perform these criminal activities with our mains if they result in such unbalanced consequences. Therefore, you will never see us with suspect flags. Unless we are baiting, in which case you won't win anyway.

I didn't mention disposing of them anywhere.

You are correct on all other counts, however.

Okay I see what you mean. It's really a matter of semantics. When we call them disposable, we mean that losing sec status or getting loss mails on those characters is not detrimental to our interests, like it might be with our mains.

When those gank alts hit -10, we continue using them.

Sounds like someones easy mode is getting broken . Of course someone elses easy mode is getting easier, ccp giveth and ccp taketh away.

Let me tell you about a little Law of EVE that some guy once discovered.

One of them gets attacked and the others can't attack the opposition unless the opposition attacks them as well :P

No respect for you at all Destiny Corrupted. Your worse than all the carebear whiners with your similar "I must win at all costs" mentality.

It's quite possible because the rookie would be shooting a legal target; a suspect can be shot by one and all.

None of your excuses prevent more pvp. Your alt will be legal to shoot at by more people with these changes than they are today. Currently gankers and flippers are only ever legal to the guy they target, and that guy rarely ever has the means to fight back. I don't know where you get the idea that you'll just be able to suicide yourself to make the flag go away. Did CCP state somewhere that the flag is removed if you die? I was under the impression that the public killrights would effectively work as an individual contract that is available for anyone to take. If I accept one on you, I have 15 miutes to blow you up; not you're main or alt.

I was under the impression that if you kill someone you get blown up, get some flag that lasts some amount of time and gankee gets killrights for like 24 hours. He can than set the killright so that anyone AROUND YOU can choose to accept a 15 minute pvp flag that makes you both legal to each other, until THEY blow you up. Am I missing something here?

Who cares if it's your main. Who cares if you'll log your alt off or use disposables. You have every right in the world to play like a pansy.

The only people this effects are people that, today, who's only threat is concord, and are pissed that soon they'll actually have to worry about other players. You know damned well that this will lead to more pvp, and that you'll be exposed to more people who are allowed to shoot at you, and that is your problem.

None of this has anything to do with outlaws. Guys under -5 have their methods of getting around high sec, and they should. Are these guys not already legal targets as long as they're red in high sec?

This is attaching short term concensual pvp timers onto activeties that many people take part in. It's basically only effects yellow blocks. Some of them will now have short term pvp flags. I could have swore that this change only means that if you gank someone than for 24 hours every person you are near is a possible pvp target, and if you flip a can you get a what, 15 minute ffa flag? How does that not have the potential to create more pvp?


I hope that with the flipping, if I go into a belt with several ships mining and they have combat drones out to deal with rats, that if I touch a can that those drones will come at me if they're set to aggressive; making the owner of the drones a legal target for me to shoot. Miners should need to pay attention if they have drones out, and I see a lot with drones out; not paying attention.



Edit: WTF