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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak First post First post First post
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Garviel Tarrant

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 2,240

#4661 - 2012-10-14 22:55:04 UTC

Noemi Nagano wrote:

Jorma Morkkis wrote:

Noemi Nagano wrote:

the complete removal of Caldari missile PvP in medium and large hulls which is incoming.

Heavy missiles need to be nerfed so CCP can rebalance ships around new stats so those missile ships will be used in the future too.

You can't say Drake isn't OP when that hull gets used in lowsec and nullsec a lot.

It gets used, but not more than other hulls in lowsec, and nullsec we will see what the Zealots will do. So according to your line the Zealot, Cane, Naga, Loki, Nado are all OP too?

Btw, 14th of October says:

1 Zealot 55779
2 Drake 45373
3 Hurricane 27594
4 Naga 26584
5 Loki 25543
6 Tornado 23159
7 Tengu 21838
8 Maelstrom 16372
9 Rokh 13099
10 Stabber Fleet Issue 12411
11 Thrasher 11908
12 Oracle 11884
13 Sabre 11448
14 Cynabal 10552
15 Talos 10203
16 Huginn 9943
17 Legion 9676
18 Manticore 8752
19 Apocalypse Navy Issue 8729
20 Hound 8676

And I tell you something more. The most OP ship in Eve atm is not even in this list. But thats because its got a price tag which will not let everyone use it in numbers in PvP.

about this stupid BS Lili Lu keeps to post - just one. I never said Drakes are not used in low. And most probably all the rest she/he says is as valid as this obvious lie. There is no need for more proof Lili, you show yourself how wrong you are over and over again :)

mostly irrelevant...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Torg Fireforge

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1

#4662 - 2012-10-14 23:14:21 UTC

Well with the amount of drakes i have lost to PVE I do not see the reason to make the change my range is fair it is only at close range does my DPS seem to go up. Not the other way around ..my max range so far is only 58 km but even then I am not alsways hitting my target. I does the better when my targets are at 48 km or less and the lower the range the better the DPS due to the targets lack of latter movement. But what do I know i have been just playing for the past year and just got be able to use the drake for the past three months and I still lose ships to the game and some times to the players. So i will do what I can with what you give me... For I know I may never find that right ship to stop me from being killed by players.

lovebus

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 12

#4663 - 2012-10-15 01:12:20 UTC

Quote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35%
-Base velocity increased by 14.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%

Quote:

Granted the range is being nerfed but since the velocity is being increased this actually makes them more viable for fleet engagements due to less volleys being lost to the winds once a target dies.

on the flip side of that coin it kinda takes away from what missiles are. If we start looking at how to mitigate this fundamental isue with the missiles then it will eventually just be another turret platform. I have very mixxed feelings about these changes but then again i'm cross trained into every race and dont use missiles

Zyella Stormborn

Green Seekers

Likes received: 633

#4664 - 2012-10-15 06:10:10 UTC

lovebus wrote:

Quote:

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35%
-Base velocity increased by 14.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%

Quote:

You forgot about the other part:

Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)

I have been a laser bunny for a while, so am rusty with the T2 missiles by name, but isn't this buff on T2 missiles making up for the damage reduction on the launchers?

~Z

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Noemi Nagano

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 122

#4665 - 2012-10-15 06:43:00 UTC

Zyella Stormborn wrote:

No, unfortunately its not. Although the numbers in this posting may seem like an overall buff, in fact this "+35% damage bonus" for fury HM is not absolute, but relative. Means, with the lower base numbers for t1 HM the post-patch Fury will have less damage than it does now, and in addition on a much shorter range. Explosion radius increase is also a nerf, not a buff, same with explosion velocity. Someone else already did the maths, it will result in

1) less damage

2) far less range

3) far worse projection of this already reduced damage

@ Lili, so, if I post here with Psycho, will you once and for all keep your mouth shut? :)

Noemi Nagano

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 122

#4666 - 2012-10-15 06:50:27 UTC

Takeshi Yamato wrote:

This development is very interesting. It's the first time that the Drake isn't #1 by a large margin. Psychological effect of impending HML nerfs? Or is it the T2 plates as Lili Lu is suggesting?

Has been explained a bit ... but it shows for sure those stats are not a good point for those "nerf Drake23" people.

Takeshi Yamato wrote:

It's worth noting that HMLs are still #1 weapon system by the way.

Yes. They are the only weapon system in this list too which can be used with success by Caldari medium and large missile hulls. So an entire races signature weapon type is represented by HML. Hence the numbers. Care to do the addition for the gunnery pendants? Just take numbers of place 2 and 4 or 3 and 5 together, and you end up with significant more lasers and projectiles than HML, and that was just rank 2-5 ... so no, I dont think HML are a problem, the complete absence of t2 Torps and CM is a problem, same with HAMs. But you cant blame HML for the crappy performance of the other medium and large missile systems.

Btw, , the only other missile system in this list is what bombers usually fit, which are pretty equal in all races.

Jorma Morkkis

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 455

#4667 - 2012-10-15 08:12:40 UTC

Noemi Nagano wrote:

Takeshi Yamato wrote:

It's worth noting that HMLs are still #1 weapon system by the way.

There's only 4 ships with lasers. Actually some of those Legions might be HAM* fit. Two of those laser ships (Oracle and NApoc) use mega pulses. Zealots are there only because of that war. Do you see Harbinger there? I don't.

* = "why would you fit HAMs!?"

Because they own. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSoFCC26KGw

Noemi Nagano

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 122

#4668 - 2012-10-15 09:15:58 UTC | Edited by: Noemi Nagano

Jorma Morkkis wrote:

Noemi Nagano wrote:

Takeshi Yamato wrote:

It's worth noting that HMLs are still #1 weapon system by the way.

I dont deny HAMs might be worth it on Legions. They are atm not on Caldari hulls though. And yes, Lasers are also not overrepresented ... but still more there than missiles. Or will you deny this?

See, your point with this Legion/HAMs is really a fair bit OT, when we talk about how much all medium and large Caldari missile hulls suck for PvP except the Tengu and Drake with HML. It would be like I say the Dominix owns for missions with Garde II when you talk about how bad Minmatar BS perform with long range missiles.

Btw, the fact you see no Harbingers there but Drakes ... it could be (and to a certain ratio it will be) because atm the Harbinger is not the first choice in PvP BC class. It doesnt suck completely, but it is not the best either. Its a solid ship which you can fly and no FC will send you home with it (if it somehow fits to gang ofc). But: Amarr have a great AHAC, which does some things so much better, so there is a *viable* alternative in many cases. Same with Amarr BS: they are not bad at all.

For Caldari its exactly the opposite: Cerberus would be there also a lot more if it wouldnt suck so hard (and admitted, if Drakes ability to do "real" sniper fits like the one Onictus posted would be cut down a bit). And if there would be a missile BS which is Caldari and worth flying, you would see far less Drakes. And a fair bit less HML overall. And this would be without a single nerf for the system, just by giving OPTIONS. Viable, working options. And not options which will get you a high rank in most ridiculous killmails.

btw Jorma, I still miss *your* combat alts .. is this credibility thing everyone here seems to talk about for the last 20 pages only a one way thing? :)

Bouh Revetoile

In Wreck we thrust

Likes received: 554

#4669 - 2012-10-15 09:48:50 UTC

Congrats : comparing HML Drake to Pulse Zealot ! I don't think HAM are so bad, and I don't think HAM Drake is bad either. As I said, there is no HAM drake because HML are so much more versatile for too much proportion of the power of HAM. You can do a lot of things with HAM, but you can do a lot more with HML, so why fitting HML ? This is because HML are OP : HML are not a short-medium range weapon system, but a long range one. They should be balance around long range medium size weapons.

And please, stop using stats of ONE day of EVE !!! It is an insult to intelligence. Use relevant data, and if you don't know what is a relevant dataset, don't use statistics.

Jorma Morkkis

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 455

#4670 - 2012-10-15 09:56:27 UTC | Edited by: Jorma Morkkis

Noemi Nagano wrote:

Cerberus would be there also a lot more if it wouldnt suck so hard

Why would you choose ship which needs more SP to fly than Tengu when Tengu does everything Cerberus does and a lot more?

Btw, there's 4 pure missile ships on that list. Huginn is split 3/3.

And yes, HAMs work with Caldari ships like Drake and Tengu. Tengu's offensive missile subsystem is actually a bit better than Legion's Assault Optimization subsystem.

flind

The Dozen

Likes received: 1

#4671 - 2012-10-15 10:08:46 UTC | Edited by: flind

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Nah, it's because you can't fit Battlecruiser with a 20km range weapon. It just doesn't work.


Bouh Revetoile In Wreck we thrust Likes received: 554	#4672 - 2012-10-15 10:11:50 UTC 3 flind wrote: Nah, it's because you can't fit Battlecruiser with a 20km range weapon. It's just doesn't work. Oh, yeah, I understand, kind of like the the Hurricane, or the Brutix, or the Harbinger, or the Myrmidon, or the Cyclone...

flind

The Dozen

Likes received: 1

#4673 - 2012-10-15 10:30:31 UTC | Edited by: flind

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

flind wrote:

Nah, it's because you can't fit Battlecruiser with a 20km range weapon. It's just doesn't work.

Oh, yeah, I understand, kind of like the the Hurricane, or the Brutix, or the Harbinger, or the Myrmidon, or the Cyclone...

Lol, man, check Hurricane's shooting range with Barrage and a couple of TEs.. Even ultra close Brutix with Null and 2 TEs has 22km fall-off. And you may add to this 5 medium drones as well.

And don't forget that HAMs take much more PG than HMs. You need RCU to fit them.

Jorma Morkkis

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 455

#4674 - 2012-10-15 11:15:44 UTC

flind wrote:

And don't forget that HAMs take much more PG than HMs. You need RCU to fit them.

[Drake, Max HAM]

Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]

Medium Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-603

Onictus

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 952

#4675 - 2012-10-15 12:30:16 UTC | Edited by: Onictus

Jorma Morkkis wrote:

flind wrote:

And don't forget that HAMs take much more PG than HMs. You need RCU to fit them.

Slightly more tanky

[Drake, ham]

7x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile)

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II

3x Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

1.91% over grid so you still need the EG-603

Gypsio III

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,264

#4676 - 2012-10-15 12:34:16 UTC | Edited by: Gypsio III

Plus you won't need the PG implant or fitting mod after the patch, with the HAML PG reduction.

Edit: to laugh at kitey Hurricanes:

[Drake, lol TD]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Republic University Minmatar Republic 0
Durkuh Durka Republic University Minmatar Republic Likes received: 0	#4677 - 2012-10-15 16:47:23 UTC So CCP Fozzie, were you just trying to troll the drake/cane fanbops into frothing anger or do you plan on returning to respond to the issues being mentioned?

Buzzy Warstl

Quantum Flux Foundry

Likes received: 602

#4678 - 2012-10-15 17:07:39 UTC

Durkuh Durka wrote:

So CCP Fozzie, were you just trying to troll the drake/cane fanbops into frothing anger or do you plan on returning to respond to the issues being mentioned?

Seems like the "issues being mentioned" were already addressed.

Maybe not to your satisfaction, but someone is always disappointed.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Durkuh Durka

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 0

#4679 - 2012-10-15 17:10:49 UTC

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

Durkuh Durka wrote:

So CCP Fozzie, were you just trying to troll the drake/cane fanbops into frothing anger or do you plan on returning to respond to the issues being mentioned?

Seems like the "issues being mentioned" were already addressed.

Maybe not to your satisfaction, but someone is always disappointed.

Maybe I missed in in all the rageposting but I haven't seen any new Dev posts. I'd appreciate a link if you don't mind providing.

Amalgamated Cockroach Corp 2
Enya Enaka Amalgamated Cockroach Corp Likes received: 2	#4680 - 2012-10-15 17:56:07 UTC 1 Durkuh Durka wrote: So CCP Fozzie, were you just trying to troll the drake/cane fanbops into frothing anger or do you plan on returning to respond to the issues being mentioned? Here is CCP Fozzie getting the Tengu 'Fanbops' frothing (all in good fun) at the Thursday Austin Meet where he nerf bats a 100MN Tengu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD-3qTVo8c8