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How Do We, The Noobs Get In???

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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#81 - 2012-10-14 20:41:22 UTC
I have a great deal of empathy and sympathy for new players in Eve. I had a terribly rough time when I first started. Joined a corp that regularly got me killed and the older players knew little to nothing about the game at the time.

Things really got interesting for me when me and a friend jumped in our first PvP ships and tried to do some PvP. Upon getting absolutely slaughtered we had a chat with the guy who killed us who asked us if we wanted to join his corp. We did join and ended up in a lowsec pirate corp. From there they moved to nullsec, ended up fighting in blob warfair, moved back to lowsec, back to nullsec, out to NPC nullsec, and then back to highsec, and then back to nullsec, etc etc etc.

Eve is an overwhelming experience, things will often seem like too much, like your always behind the curve, and the thing is, you will always feel like that. Eve will throw you a lot of curve balls, make you want to cry, scream, jump up and down for joy and occasionally feel really really bored.

Find someone who seems nice, join an ACTIVE corp with experienced leadership, and stick the corp out. Dont jump ship as soon as things get boring or difficult. Help out any way you can. You get out what you put into a corp. Finding a good corp is difficult, but you need to find one that specialises in something you find interesting. Ask loads of questions, no matter how stupid they sound, and ask them over voice coms if you can.

That's pretty much the best advice I can offer.
Also:
- Dont trust anyone.
- Dont fly anything you can't afford to lose.
- When **** gets bad, it can always be worse.
- Set objects for yourself, and actively pursue them.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-10-14 20:45:05 UTC
Join a corp.
Yes, some corps are better than others but ANY corp is better than muddling through on your own.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#83 - 2012-10-14 20:47:41 UTC
Arduemont wrote:

That's pretty much the best advice I can offer.
Also:
- Dont trust anyone.



Trust but verfiy -
Ronald Regan
Sugar Von MurdererTits
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#84 - 2012-10-14 20:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Von MurdererTits
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
You won't last long in this game ... and that's probably not even a bad thing ...



See this is what I'm talking about. Right here.

"YEAH, I'M BIG BAD EVE PLAYER, AND I CRUSH U NOOBS. YOU WONT LAST LONG HERE. GRRRRRR"


You're probably some 120 pound ginger with freckles dude, f**k out of here with that elitist, tough guy crap dude.

All I'm asking for is information. If that makes me "weak" then so be it, but please can the tough guy **** man you're not fooling anyone. I bet if we go back, we'd find out you got helped when you started out. No idea why punk asses like you go around acting like you were flying titans after 5 days of play when you started.


I think you got the wrong end of the stick here. Eve is a complicated game and you will never get it all handed to you in neat little soundbites no matter what you read or which alliance you join. If that's what you want then maybe it isn't the right game for you. For a lot of people it's the attraction. It's not about weak vs strong, really. It's more about what you want from a game.

My advice would be to find a good crew to fly with and pick it up as you go along. Unlike others I wouldn't recommend RvB for a newbie. It's a great Eve institution but I didn't learn basic pvp there.

Here are some useful links to help you along:

Eve wiki


Eve Fitting Tool (for setting up fits for ships -- really useful) -- personally I learned a lot by looking up fits on battleclinic, feeding them into this tool and playing around

Eve mon (skill planner)
shadowhearth Eto
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#85 - 2012-10-14 20:52:43 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
What now man??? I did those horribly uninformative training missions...what now? Those things cover like, 2% of the info you need in EvE.

For starters are there any OTHER large scale training corps like EvE University? Respect to what they do but the application process to my real life university was quicker and simpler.

Is there a streamlined, one stop shop site to go to to learn the game? Damage types, ships, glossary of terms, etc??? Seems like there are like 5,000 diff resources and many of them conflict. It shouldn't feel like I'm studying for the friggin LSAT while trying to learn a video game....this ridiculous. I don't mind taking time to learn but holy crap.

(Fully expect SOME exp players to flame for this. I'm used to it. People get exp then act like they've forgotten how it is to be new and get some sort of ego boost from trashing new players. I deal with losers like this IRL all of the time, so it's no big deal).

So yeah...I'm basically just trying to streamline this whole learning process. What are some good Corps to join to learn? Good places to go to learn the VERY basics of the game.

I also notice that this game, unfortunately like many MMOs is very exclusive. The exp players have all of the money, items, influence and pretty much make it impossible for newer players to get in and learn through them. So we pretty much have to figure it out. My SP aren't even in the 7 digits yet....some corps are asking for 50 million SP minimums??? How high does it go?

You basically can't join a decent corp until you have that much SP??? So I basically have to play by myself until then? If so then this'll just be a little side hobby until something else comes out. A friend of mine referred me to this game, but he stopped playing. Not going to pay just to log in, put some skills in queue then log off, which is basically all I do now., and have been doing for the last 2 weeks. If this is how it is up until the millions point in SP then...yeah....not for me.


right....


My pilot is 25 days old ( my character ), so i cant give you much info on it, but i can just say what did i do and what did i though of the experience so far.

EVE has a learning curve in a shape of brick wall, which you hit with your face then scrape your face up and up, but you newer reach that top. Eve is complicated, dinamic and constantly changing, which is a damn great thing.
Before i started EVE i knew one thing - its not an mmorpg, which will hold your hand, clean your poop cannon and give you a candy when you **** up badly and then give you 3 candies, when you do it right. If you really really want to learn how to play eve, you got to get finger out and do some stuff yourself.
First of all, this is the game, where you have to make your own story, entertainment, goal. This is the beauty of sandbox game like this, you dont rely on content being feeded to you, you make your own content.
the tutorial is a great first step in to EVE. I tried to start eve years ago, when it did not had this tutorial system and i gave up on a great game like this. Me being more mature now and tutorial combination made sure i would stick to EVE. Just keep in mind, that tutorial is only here to teach you baby steps of basics like eating and walking, all the rest has to be done by yourself.

With all doom and gloom, here's what is great about EVE and being a noob:
EVE community is great ( forum can be dodgy though ), there are always plenty of people in local solar systems or in rookie channel to help with any stupid question you got. I was spaming channels with stupid questions and people were more then willing to help me out. So your next tutorial - ask your fellow EVe player in GAME.

Now before you really want to enjoy EVE you need to do research and find out what you want to do in EVE. Its not like other mmorpgs where you have to be a flipping warrior and kill 20,000 boars in a woods. Here you can be a non combat character and enjoy EVE to its most! Look what sort of proffesion out there and what would you like to do most. When you have a rough idea what you want to do, you should find a casual corp, which is noob friendly and go from there. Remember, that most Corps, will be happy to help out to fellow pilot. You have to remember that the most valuable thing you can get from your corp - knowledge. "dont just give persoan a fish, better teach him how to catch it".




Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#86 - 2012-10-14 21:09:53 UTC
You have found the sandbox. You are now looking for the paths most traveled because you are used to being a rat in a maze. It won't make EVE a maze but you aren't used to the sandbox.

I don't want CCP to turn EVE in to a maze for little white rats to run around in. So with all due respect, either decide you like the sand box or GTFO. Also, EVE learning curve is not that hard. Simple rule: Nothing trumps in EVE. Nothing. Anything that leads you to think that is situational and misinformation. Most of what you are going to find from the wiki warriors is misinformation.

Carve your own patch in the sand box or just go.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#87 - 2012-10-14 21:23:04 UTC
Kai Wong-Tong
Hippity Hip Hip
#88 - 2012-10-14 23:33:42 UTC
As a fellow complete noob, I think the main thing has been to look at something that is interesting to figure out and go from there. Sometimes certain things are hard to figure out, some things you just need to research.

Eveonline wiki is quite good to get the stats portion of things. In your example for ammo, you can look at the various types and compare the stats on each and pick according to what you want to do.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Carbonized_Lead_S

vs

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Depleted_Uranium_S

All the relavant stats can be found there.

I'm finding that I need to focus on one thing and figure that out slowly (started with exploration to look for a way to earn some ISK) and then more onto something else.

In game rookie chat has actually been really good for me, usually someone on there has an answer for what specific questions I have.
Marie Trudeau
Trudeau Industrie SA
#89 - 2012-10-14 23:45:40 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Ismol Tyl wrote:
I just returned to Eve after some time away. When I first played in 2005 or so the first tutorial was imo the best. But very little info as far as excelling at PvP was given.
These new tutorials (if you really did them all you would know) give so much equipment and skill books away, not to mention the vastly increased initial attribute points, that I understand why some folks say Eve has been dumbed down alot as far as PvE goes. Everything you can do in PvE, short of market manipulation is shown to you in an almost childlike way in these tutorials.
Still there is no tutorial at excelling at PvP.


Even now the tutorials aren't that great, even for PVE. Take the award of the Destroyer (and skill book) for example: no mention is made about what Destroyers are for, or why a player would want to use one instead of a Frigate, or what skills are useful to have for using a Destroyer effectively. (Racial skills, for example, like armor tanking over shield tanking, or projectile turrets over hybrid turrets.) Should you shield-tank or armor tank? Which is better? Which modules do you use? How do enemy strengths/weaknesses matter to your ship's fit? Should you use an active hardener or a passive resist module? How about the nine different kinds of projectile ammo -- which one to use for which enemy?

It goes on and on and on like that. The tutorials don't get into much of that at all. You find once the tutorials are complete that you've actually learned almost nothing about how the game is really played.



THis is true, but EVE has always been like this. It's much more tutorialized now than it ever was (I first played in '04 and there was almost nothing then). EVE is a hellishly complex game, but that's really one of the main attractions of it -- scaling the learning curve is a part of the enjoyment of the game. It's true that this enjoyment is tempered considerably for a new player coming in now, almost ten years in, when you have players who began in '03 and '04 who have scaled the learning and SP curves -- that's a built-in issue EVE has also always had, frankly. I think CCP continues to make things slightly more new player friendly while at the same time leaving the "scaling the learning curve" aspect of the game intact so that players can enjoy that aspect as a part of the gameplay. I fully well understand that many people don't enjoy that -- but I think that if you take that completely away by laying it out clearly at the outset for all players, the game becomes less interesting more quickly, given what it is.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-10-14 23:52:34 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Athena Themis wrote:
This is one of the reasons why eve is such a good game. It weeds out the instant-satisfaction players.



Where in my post did I ask for instant satisfaction?

"Weed out"???

Feel like one of the "Cool Kids" now huh?

"Take THAT you jocks and cheerleaders from High School!!!"


Have sex dude.

Why in God's name would someone WANT people to be excluded in an MMORPG??? Wouldn't you WANT new players to be able to learn more efficiently (which is all I asked for)?

If not for us, who are you going to shoot at? Sell to? Pirate? (I'm seeing countless threads of exp folks complaining about how empty nullsec is). Don't you want to ATTRACT more people??? I just don't get this "I only want 10-20 special snowflakes like me to play this game" mentality.




Some older players around are complete jerks to new players and will always be. They will scam you they will can bait you to kill your ship and mock you in local (often with alts of course), gank your poor T1 light mining frigate/mining barge while you're training or making some isk and then pretend they're saving idiots from themselves.

Welcome to Eve online, you've just learned the first lesson: Eve is not for every one.

brb
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#91 - 2012-10-15 00:08:43 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
What now man??? I did those horribly uninformative training missions...what now? Those things cover like, 2% of the info you need in EvE.

For starters are there any OTHER large scale training corps like EvE University? Respect to what they do but the application process to my real life university was quicker and simpler.

Is there a streamlined, one stop shop site to go to to learn the game? Damage types, ships, glossary of terms, etc??? Seems like there are like 5,000 diff resources and many of them conflict. It shouldn't feel like I'm studying for the friggin LSAT while trying to learn a video game....this ridiculous. I don't mind taking time to learn but holy crap.

(Fully expect SOME exp players to flame for this. I'm used to it. People get exp then act like they've forgotten how it is to be new and get some sort of ego boost from trashing new players. I deal with losers like this IRL all of the time, so it's no big deal).

So yeah...I'm basically just trying to streamline this whole learning process. What are some good Corps to join to learn? Good places to go to learn the VERY basics of the game.

I also notice that this game, unfortunately like many MMOs is very exclusive. The exp players have all of the money, items, influence and pretty much make it impossible for newer players to get in and learn through them. So we pretty much have to figure it out. My SP aren't even in the 7 digits yet....some corps are asking for 50 million SP minimums??? How high does it go?

You basically can't join a decent corp until you have that much SP??? So I basically have to play by myself until then? If so then this'll just be a little side hobby until something else comes out. A friend of mine referred me to this game, but he stopped playing. Not going to pay just to log in, put some skills in queue then log off, which is basically all I do now., and have been doing for the last 2 weeks. If this is how it is up until the millions point in SP then...yeah....not for me.




You are supposed to make an attempt to go into lowsec and die in a gate camp so those that make this the niche game that it is can relish in your tears.

But asking first, it appears, may have thwarted the plan.


Good luck.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-10-15 00:13:44 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
What now man??? I did those horribly uninformative training missions...what now? Those things cover like, 2% of the info you need in EvE.

For starters are there any OTHER large scale training corps like EvE University? Respect to what they do but the application process to my real life university was quicker and simpler.

Is there a streamlined, one stop shop site to go to to learn the game? Damage types, ships, glossary of terms, etc??? Seems like there are like 5,000 diff resources and many of them conflict. It shouldn't feel like I'm studying for the friggin LSAT while trying to learn a video game....this ridiculous. I don't mind taking time to learn but holy crap.

(Fully expect SOME exp players to flame for this. I'm used to it. People get exp then act like they've forgotten how it is to be new and get some sort of ego boost from trashing new players. I deal with losers like this IRL all of the time, so it's no big deal).

So yeah...I'm basically just trying to streamline this whole learning process. What are some good Corps to join to learn? Good places to go to learn the VERY basics of the game.

I also notice that this game, unfortunately like many MMOs is very exclusive. The exp players have all of the money, items, influence and pretty much make it impossible for newer players to get in and learn through them. So we pretty much have to figure it out. My SP aren't even in the 7 digits yet....some corps are asking for 50 million SP minimums??? How high does it go?

You basically can't join a decent corp until you have that much SP??? So I basically have to play by myself until then? If so then this'll just be a little side hobby until something else comes out. A friend of mine referred me to this game, but he stopped playing. Not going to pay just to log in, put some skills in queue then log off, which is basically all I do now., and have been doing for the last 2 weeks. If this is how it is up until the millions point in SP then...yeah....not for me.




You are supposed to make an attempt to go into lowsec and die in a gate camp so those that make this the niche game that it is can relish in your tears.

But asking first, it appears, may have thwarted the plan.


Good luck.



Here's a pic an ISD posted (methinks) that describes the corporation joining process in Eve. http://i45.tinypic.com/eb7gbm.png

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Skaz
Skazmanian Industries
#93 - 2012-10-15 00:22:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skaz
I so, so want to say something cool and very elitist and contradict the OP.

But he's right, so wonderfully right it hurts.

And that's why I think I love EVE.


But on topic, talk to people in the recruitment channels, help channels and god forbid even local. Eventually you'll get lucky and someone will pity or like you enough to help you.
It's basically a social game with this mini-games like missioning, pvp or mining strewn in there to pass time while you get to know people.

What usually kills the will to play with the new ones is the lack of a pre-defined goal, a mission or an endgame of sorts. So make your own. Really, make.your.own.goals.

edit :
Oh, and don't get scammed. And don't fly something that you can't afford to replace.

Welcome to EVE-Online.

-... ..- -.-- / -- -.-- / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. / --- -. / - .... . / -- .- .-. -.- . - / - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / ... .... .- -- . .-.. . ... ... .-.. -.-- / ... - --- .-.. . -.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#94 - 2012-10-15 00:22:56 UTC
meh surfin' that's how amateurs do it

This is how the pro's do it

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#95 - 2012-10-15 00:39:54 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
You won't last long in this game ... and that's probably not even a bad thing ...



See this is what I'm talking about. Right here.

"YEAH, I'M BIG BAD EVE PLAYER, AND I CRUSH U NOOBS. YOU WONT LAST LONG HERE. GRRRRRR"


You're probably some 120 pound ginger with freckles dude, f**k out of here with that elitist, tough guy crap dude.

All I'm asking for is information. If that makes me "weak" then so be it, but please can the tough guy **** man you're not fooling anyone. I bet if we go back, we'd find out you got helped when you started out. No idea why punk asses like you go around acting like you were flying titans after 5 days of play when you started.


Take my advice: man up, do the research and jetcan the attitude.

Yeah, a lot of us got help in our first days -- but nobody is going to want to help you if all you ever do is get all cranky when you don't get the intel you're expecting.

If you're not willing to chill the frakk out, you won't last long here -- and people aren't going to take you seriously.
Asaryuu
Liquid Words
#96 - 2012-10-15 01:07:01 UTC
Gorgeous Dre wrote:
Athena Themis wrote:
This is one of the reasons why eve is such a good game. It weeds out the instant-satisfaction players.



Where in my post did I ask for instant satisfaction?

"Weed out"???

Feel like one of the "Cool Kids" now huh?

"Take THAT you jocks and cheerleaders from High School!!!"


Have sex dude.

Why in God's name would someone WANT people to be excluded in an MMORPG??? Wouldn't you WANT new players to be able to learn more efficiently (which is all I asked for)?

If not for us, who are you going to shoot at? Sell to? Pirate? (I'm seeing countless threads of exp folks complaining about how empty nullsec is). Don't you want to ATTRACT more people??? I just don't get this "I only want 10-20 special snowflakes like me to play this game" mentality.




Eve is a very different game. The people who play on a reg basis feels like it makes them special and as such having more people play and enjoy the game makes them less special. Playing this game is not that great of an achievement and ur probably not going to play very long anyway. Save ur money and bail while u can. Good Luck
Taihbea
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-10-15 02:14:01 UTC
The way you speak looks like you think about yourself as a special flake.
You are not. Don't like it? GTFO.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#98 - 2012-10-15 02:31:43 UTC
Asaryuu wrote:
Gorgeous Dre wrote:

Why in God's name would someone WANT people to be excluded in an MMORPG??? Wouldn't you WANT new players to be able to learn more efficiently (which is all I asked for)?

If not for us, who are you going to shoot at? Sell to? Pirate? (I'm seeing countless threads of exp folks complaining about how empty nullsec is). Don't you want to ATTRACT more people??? I just don't get this "I only want 10-20 special snowflakes like me to play this game" mentality.

Eve is a very different game. The people who play on a reg basis feels like it makes them special and as such having more people play and enjoy the game makes them less special. Playing this game is not that great of an achievement and ur probably not going to play very long anyway. Save ur money and bail while u can. Good Luck

That's a stupid way to do it.

Everyone knows having a half-a-dozen newbies in t1 frigates makes any op better. Automatically.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#99 - 2012-10-15 02:32:33 UTC
Taihbea wrote:
The way you speak looks like you think about yourself as a special flake.
You are not. Don't like it? GTFO.

We were all special snowflakes once.

Then EVE Online took us and ruined us. Now we blob and use ECM like skillness morons.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-10-15 02:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
I've never understood the argument that the more complicated EVE is, the more enticing it is. That's just stupid. There's a difference between deep and complicated -- Chess is a very deep game with very simple rules, as is the game of Go. Simple doesn't mean trivial. Chess is simple to learn, but can take a lifetime to master.

EVE's devs, on the other hand, seem to be of the opinion that if something is fabulously complicated and byzantine, why then it must be good. The PI interface is a good example of that mindset: there is no reason at all, gameplay or otherwise, why this interface has to be such a complicated and roundabout click-fest. It's just bad game design. POS management is another example of bad design.

And players who defend this overly-complex mechanic are a large part of the reason why EVE remains a niche product. They've got a "battered wife" syndrome by now: they had to suffer through the crappy tutorials, obscure (or missing) documentation, and highly nonintuitive UI design; so they think everyone else should as well. Suffering is good for the soul, seems to be the consensus among many bittervets. That it serves no useful purpose to the gameplay seems to escape everyone. It's just pointless and maddening busywork most of the time, a kneejerk MMO developer habit of keeping players in the game for as long as possible.

EVE is by no means a bad game (it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has otherwise), but it has many glaring faults that have gone unaddressed for years and years. At this point I've stopped hoping for basic fixes (like a UI that doesn't look like a bad Linux desktop from 1998) -- for better or worse, EVE is what it is, and it's not going to change much. I've learned to accept it, warts and all, but I can think regretfully on what might have been.

EDIT: A point about documentation (or the lack thereof). How would you feel about a manfacturer who sold you a car without an operator's manual? Yes, you could do the research yourself on how to use the various knobs, dials, switches, levers, and so forth; but why should you? Explaining how the automobile works is the vendor's responsibility. They don't tell you what to use the auto for, but they do tell you how to operate it, and how to maintain it. CCP has never done that with EVE, and it's one of the most frustrating things about the game, and the company behind it. (How sad is it that the players themselves had to write a manual that CCP couldn't be bothered to write themselves?)