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Mission ship for amarr space, nightmare?

Author
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-17 08:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: EGHuK
I'm thinking of doing lvl 4's in amarr space. (I will only encounter NPC which are weak versus EM/THERM, correct?)

I thought that the nightmare would be the best ship to do so... not sure though. But if so, what kind of fit would you recommend. I've tried some fits in EFT but I'm not sure if they're nice. This one for instance:

[LOW]
4x faction HS
1x TE II

[MID]
2x Faction invuln ?
Faction heavy cap booster +800's
2x TC II (Or faction?) + tracking speed
Shield boost amplifier ?

[High]
4x tachyons, blablabla.

[RIGS]
2x Semi conductor memorycells
1x... ?

But that would make it slow like ****? Not sure if you need to move allot in these amarr missions, but most mission ships I've flown flew like 600m/s.

Would appriciate some input<3.

Thanks in advance.
Aamrr
#2 - 2011-10-17 09:23:39 UTC
Semiconductors are interesting, but do remember that they do nothing to improve the capacitor coming from your capacitor boosters. A fully skilled nightmare has just under 8700 capacitor in its reservoir -- but it carries 16000 capacitor in its cargo hold. Improving the former by 15% pales in comparison to conserving what's coming in from your capacitor booster. Especially when the alternative gives a larger bonus.

T2 Elutriation Discharge rigs give a 25% reduction in capacitor cost for your Tachyons. The effect is so significant that a pair of them will get even T2 tachyons to near stability with your shield booster off -- and this lets you conserve your capacitor charges for the when you need tank -- rather than needing to use them as soon as the capacitor in your ship runs out.

Speaking of tank, notice the medium capacitor booster. With the elutriation rigs making the lasers run off native cap recharge, a medium capacitor booster is sufficient to run the shield booster. Even with everything running, you could run the shield booster about 80% of the time as long as charges hold out. And a medium booster runs through charges a lot slower than a heavy does. More importantly, the medium capacitor booster conserves enough powergrid to allow fitting an afterburner, a nice luxury on many many missions.

Putting it all together, here's what I've got. There's a few modules that change situationally -- I'll switch hardeners or fit an afterburner for some missions -- but this gives you the general idea:

[Nightmare, TachBoost]

4x Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Auto Targeting System II

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Imperial Navy Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed

Tracking Enhancer II
4x Imperial Navy Heat Sink

2x Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-17 09:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Smith
Mission composition varies as I understand it, but where I fly, I mostly get those without travel time, apart from one that is called “score” or something. Bar this exception, I never move the nightmare, ever. Range on tachs is great even with MF crystals. That’s why I also suggest using sentries.

Below you’ll find my not so pimped fit. It still works like a charm. You could get a lot more (but unneeded) tanking performance with dead space stuff, but will become a juicy target as well.


[Nightmare, blood/sansha_range]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Imperial Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Auto Targeting System II

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
[empty rig slot]


Curator II x2
Hobgoblin II x5


edit: one more advice, if its the first tach/100% dmg bonus ship you fly. don't group your guns and shoot frigs first.
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-17 10:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: EGHuK
Thanks allot for the input guys! I'm not sure which of your two fits I might like more since I've never flown either yet, but I'll guess I'll just test around a bit.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#5 - 2011-10-17 16:09:56 UTC
that fit is a bit too much suicidegankworthy for empire use
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#6 - 2011-10-17 17:24:14 UTC
Stupid question from a silly PvPer who doesn't do missions...whats up with the auto-targeter?

I may get into mission running while I'm traveling for work and on a hotel inter-web connenction...so whats the deal with that Autotargeter?

Also what are the thoughts on a Mega Pulse @s with Scorch VS Tachs? Better range and paper DPS on the tachs but even with scorch, better tracking and cap usage with the mega pulse 2s...

Thoughts?

Lugalzagezi666
#7 - 2011-10-17 17:28:37 UTC
With t2 auto targeting system you can lock 10 targets instead of 7.

I used t1 version in pvp on tackle inties if i wasnt able to fit sig amp - to be able to lock the target and full flight of drones.

Also mwd on l4 tach nightmare? Seriously, no.
Aamrr
#8 - 2011-10-17 17:39:38 UTC
EGHuK wrote:

Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
100MN Microwarpdrive (Core-C ?)


Your mids are a little off. Caldari Navy Invulns are notoriously expensive -- to the point where they're considered budget-conscious options for supercapitals. Two of them correlates to about a 58% reduction in incoming damage, once stacking penalties are considered. Two T2 hardeners will give you a 55% resistance to two damage sources -- but they'l do it at about 0.2% of the price. Nightmares are already gank-worthy targets as it is. There's no reason to make yourself any juicier.

Pith shield boosters are great for throughput, but their capacitor efficiency sucks. Gist shield boosters have dropped in price quite dramatically, and you should find them quite a bit more affordable than they were a year ago. If you must spend money, this is an area to look at -- not invulns. The medium capacitor booster works in part because the gist shield boosters are so much more efficient.

The microwarpdrive is just...counter productive. There's no reason you should ever need to microwarp ANYWHERE in a nightmare. You've got an effective range of about 65 kilometers with Multifrequency. Afterburners are more than adequate if you should ever have to move to a gate, and you'll ALWAYS have enough range to hit whatever's at a distance with a simple crystal swap. A MWD is a wasted midslot and a drain on your capacitor. Not a good thing.

Regarding rigs, you should be able to fit two T2 elutriation discharge rigs without issue -- you'll have 50 calibration left, which is more than enough for a T1 shield rig, such as resists or capacitor safeguard.
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-17 17:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Smith
Dark Pangolin wrote:
Stupid question from a silly PvPer who doesn't do missions...whats up with the auto-targeter?

I may get into mission running while I'm traveling for work and on a hotel inter-web connenction...so whats the deal with that Autotargeter?

Also what are the thoughts on a Mega Pulse @s with Scorch VS Tachs? Better range and paper DPS on the tachs but even with scorch, better tracking and cap usage with the mega pulse 2s...

Thoughts?




- concerning the autotargeter I may add to what has been said before, that its especially important when there are a lot of frigs spawning. you basicly 1 shot them and having to wait for a new lock may get them under your guns.

- tachs esp. on a nightmare and with the generally long engagement ranges in blood/sansha missions have excellent dmg projection. transversal is not a problem here, range is though. in this case tachs with multies give you better dmg than pulses with scorch.

- cap usage is not a problem. mission rooms are completed so fast, that I seldom even have to use the booster.

edit: I also advise against using a mwd. you simply dont need it.
Cypher Decypher
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-10-17 18:07:57 UTC
If you want to reduce your aforementioned "gankability" and fitting expenses, use 2x Faction heatsinks and 2x T2 heatsinks . You only lose about 20dps at max skills (slightly over 2%).

Lugalzagezi666
#11 - 2011-10-17 18:25:11 UTC
Best way to reduce "gankability" is to drop 2x 550m faction invuls in this case. C-type booster is only 200mil, so it shouldnt be big issue. Not that it offers much over t2 for l4 mission nightmare, but if it makes you feel better, fit it.
Sturmwolke
#12 - 2011-10-17 22:24:37 UTC
There are several ways to conserve/improve cap on the Nightmare.

* A DCII will harden your shields without a stacking penalty - better shield booster efficiency as you waste less cap on repping. You also get an emergency GTFO timer.
* Faction tachyons use less cap. T2 tachyons doesn't really give you much advantage until you hit L4 (or above) in beam specialization.
* T2 EDE rigs.
* Complex shield amp. Pithum C-types or better. You also can mix and match Pith hardeners with faction shield amp.
* Gist LSB/XLSB. Faction/T2/Pith don't work well. Pithum is best, but that's too much bling.
* General implants : Lancer G0-G2.5 Beta, Squire CC2-8

The choices for rigs depends on your playstyle :

- Full gank fits won't usually fit EDE or cap rigs to maximize dps. These builds rely heavily on cap boosters.
- Std fits will include at least 1 T2 EDE, the choices for the 2nd and 3rd rig will depend on your implants (2x CCC being the most optimal for most mission scenarios). These builds have the ability to skim/siphon off cap periodically during missions because of their cap stability with only guns firing. They use cap boosters sparingly as backups and in long missions.
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-10-18 06:49:00 UTC
Ok, so I found a way to fit this with my skills: (Without cap/cpu implants, just the two 5% damage implants)

[Low]
Imperial Navy Heatsink
Imperial Navy Heatsink
Imperial Navy Heatsink
Imperial Navy Heatsink
Tracking Enhancer II

[Mid]
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Imperial Navy Medium Capacitor Booster - 800
Domination 100mn Afterburner
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster (Gives 325ish shield recharge with this fit)
Tracking Computer II - Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range

[High]
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Auto Targeting System II
Small Tractor Beam I

[Rig]
Large Energy Discharge Elutrination II
Large Energy Discharge Elutrination II
Large Anti-Em Screen Reinforcer I

My character has large pulse spec V though, and beam spec 4. But I guess tachyons are better for most missions.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-18 08:00:32 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
snip


With so many concessions made for tachs, why not just use pulse w/ scorch?
Aamrr
#15 - 2011-10-18 08:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
Simple. Tachyons do about 18.6% more DPS than Mega Pulses do.
Tachyons: 977 DPS to 42.9+41km
Mega Pulse: 824 DPS to 58.5+16.4km

In a mission where I can use Mega Pulses with Multifrequency (Damsel comes to mind), I will. But on a mission like Mining Misappropriation, where enemies spawn anywhere from 45 to 85km out? I'll take Tachyons any day. And...maybe an afterburner so I can use Multi a little sooner.

Edit: That second fitting looks very good, EGHuk. You won't need the afterburner on every mission, but you'll find it helpful on quite a few of them. If you find yourself needing more tank, a shield boost amplifier is a good way to get it. This might be a good option on missions like Stop the Thief, where incoming DPS is extreme and comes in multiple damage types.
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-18 08:57:31 UTC
Alright, thanks allot for your advise:-)! I guess I could just make a pulse fit for those certain missions as well. Although I guess that a pulse fit would use different rigs, optimaly speaking.
Aamrr
#17 - 2011-10-18 08:59:00 UTC
Simple. Swap the Tachyons for the Mega Pulses.

And while yes, it probably would use different rigs (something along the lines of Locus Coordinator II's, probably), it's barely worth the effort to switch your turrets -- much less worry about suboptimal rig choices on a ship that's already stacking penalized down to 4 heat sinks and 3 tracking modules.
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-18 09:02:59 UTC
I was thinking that if it's some close range brawl mission like the damsel, I might as well fit 2 heavy nos so I can permarun the tank? Not sure if that'll be needed though.

(As the pulses free up for NoS usage)
Aamrr
#19 - 2011-10-18 09:14:36 UTC
Oh, sure. It's hardly necessary, but you're welcome to do it. You'll probably want a tractor beam for pulling in any mission completion triggers, though.
EGHuK
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-18 19:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: EGHuK
So I just did my first mission in amar space somewhere in a 0.5 system for a security devision in amarr space (For the ministry of war). And the first mission I get offered is angel extravaganza, the first few rooms they all spawned at like 20km distance, and gist/angels take more explosive damage instead of EM/therm. Did I do something wrong? Am I supposed to cancel those, or...? (I'm a total noob at missioning:P)

Could use some advise here as well;-).

Edit; I have the feeling that pulses would be better at this mission, or what?

Edit 2: The second is the damsel... lol^_^.
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