These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Mach or Nightmare?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
zatazon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-10-14 13:47:50 UTC
I know there are other posts out there comparing these 2 ships but everything I have seen just says what are you shooting at, or its weak to EM/Therm go Nightmare, or it resists EM/Therm go Mach. Well I want the fun answer.

I have Caldari BS 5 and Gallente 4 and while I enjoy flying my SNI, N Domi, and Rattler I am ready to go play with something else but I cant decide what. I have pretty decent gunnery skills shocking I know since I fly missile boats mostly.

I am not worried about what I will be shooting with these more just which would be more fun to fly or more all around useful. I can be in either one in about 4 days, I can put T1 guns w/ either T2 shield tank or a 50/50 T1/T2 armor tank on either ship. I am a little closer to getting T2 Arty and ACs than lazors but I'm not too worried aboutt he training time difference.

If you got any questions let me know, otherwise I look forward to hearing feed backs.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2012-10-14 14:24:18 UTC
Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts.

Let's face it, all the gun-focused pirate BS are fun to fly. And each if them is superior in it's own niche. Sansha Pirate Invasion? Long range EM-weak rats mean that Nothing will touch the Nightmare. Angel Extravaganza? Mach > all for getting up clase and personal with Angels. Warping in the Vindicator to Guristas Assault or Serpentis Extravaganza will bring you win. And so on. If you want a "one size fits all" Pirate BS, then the Mach is obviously it. But hey, if you're cheaping out here, just get a damb CNR, right?


[Vindicator, Windicator]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Internal Force Field Array I

Core B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Domination Stasis Webifier
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x4

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
zatazon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-14 14:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: zatazon
Hadn't considered a vindicator I will have to check the training time and see what skills id need for it too.


Actually I believe you have helped me decide, if I get Minmatar BS then I can fly a Vindi which I can completely T2 fit already and then I can start working on a T2 fit for the Mach.
Hongus Gwag
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-10-14 15:39:27 UTC
nice, the NM vs mach topics usually last a whole lot longer than this and rarely come to a conclusion.
zatazon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-10-14 16:58:52 UTC
Yea they do usually seem to go forever with no one deciding anything just really at each other.


I mean we can go and drag this one out longer if need be?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-10-14 17:43:17 UTC
What is fun:

The mach is the fastest battleship, the nightmare is one of the slowest.... fast > slow for fun
Sorting out ammo supplies is not very fun, NM> mach
Managing cap... may not be very fun (or maybe you like flying on the edge, pulsing mods and such)
Selecting specific damage types may provide a bit of fun, but so may rapidly wapping out crystals as range and tracking dictate.

While the mach can snipe with arty, its targetting range is not as nice, if sniping is fun for you, NM > mach
In some lvl 4s, the mare never needs to move, as it can target and snipe everything on the grid

If PvP in such an expensive boat is what excites you, the mach will be a lot more fun, as it will perform a lot better in PvP

The NM can't be armor tanked very well, but the mach can do both types of tank

If you like using drones, the mach can carry more.

So in summary:
Speed vs sniping
Unlimited ammo and cap management vs limited ammo and damage slecting

Capable of both tank types - Mach
Pvp capability - Mach
Drones - Mach

Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach
zatazon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-10-14 17:52:08 UTC
not only is this Mach vs Nightmare getting stretched out, very valuable info is coming to light.

Thank you very much for the break down Verity, I will have to get them both i think. I very much enjoy flying my assault frig in L3/L4s because it requires attention and if i screw up im prob gonna pop. At the same time sitting back in a CNR launching cruise missiles at targets 150km out is pretty cool or using rails on a rokh.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#8 - 2012-10-14 18:49:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts.


That's really dumb advice did you actually ever flew one n missions? (it looks like the op is interested in pve)

With a vindi you'll spend the entire day chasing after each target as you do need to get point blank range to do any decent damage, whereas with a Nightmare or (my favourite) Navy Apoc you can just sit still and kill everything.
Worpout
Quafe Racing
#9 - 2012-10-14 19:12:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts.

Let's face it, all the gun-focused pirate BS are fun to fly. And each if them is superior in it's own niche. Sansha Pirate Invasion? Long range EM-weak rats mean that Nothing will touch the Nightmare. Angel Extravaganza? Mach > all for getting up clase and personal with Angels. Warping in the Vindicator to Guristas Assault or Serpentis Extravaganza will bring you win. And so on. If you want a "one size fits all" Pirate BS, then the Mach is obviously it. But hey, if you're cheaping out here, just get a damb CNR, right?


[Vindicator, Windicator]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Internal Force Field Array I

Core B-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Domination Stasis Webifier
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x4


I'd do a better MWD and perhaps a cap boosters, else the same fit 8)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2012-10-14 19:23:07 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Have you considered a Vindicator? Shield tank it, fit at least 2 tracking enhancers, put a rack of Mega Neutron Blaster II on it and giggle like a schoolgirl on nitrous as stuff just melts.


That's really dumb advice did you actually ever flew one n missions? (it looks like the op is interested in pve)

With a vindi you'll spend the entire day chasing after each target as you do need to get point blank range to do any decent damage, whereas with a Nightmare or (my favourite) Navy Apoc you can just sit still and kill everything.


18+34 falloff with Null.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#11 - 2012-10-14 19:51:20 UTC
nightmare is prettier and doesent look like a masochist dildo...FLY IT
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#12 - 2012-10-14 20:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Exploited Engineer
Romvex wrote:
nightmare is prettier and doesent look like a masochist dildo...FLY IT


Are we talking about the same Nightmare that looks like a cactus after a bad traffic accident?

Hm. Masochist dildo? That sounds like one way to view the Nightmare, with all those spikes.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#13 - 2012-10-14 20:37:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
18+34 falloff with Null.


And that is painfully short-ranged for a mission battleship.

Oh, and don't forget its low targeting range. In some Serpentis missions, you might find yourself reduced to lock ranges well below 10km by all the sensor damping. It might be win against Guristas, though.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#14 - 2012-10-14 20:42:57 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach


Another point for the Machariel: If Marauders are your thing, the skills required for the Machariel overlap well with those required for flying the only Marauder currently worth the trouble, the Vargur.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#15 - 2012-10-14 21:12:58 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Unless you really like lasers and long range targetting, its the mach


Another point for the Machariel: If Marauders are your thing, the skills required for the Machariel overlap well with those required for flying the only Marauder currently worth the trouble, the Vargur.

the paladin would like to speak with you
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-14 22:00:50 UTC
Go for the Machmare or the Nightariel Big smile
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#17 - 2012-10-14 22:16:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
18+34 falloff with Null.


that's a joke

56 optimal with scorch and amarr bs IV in an apoc
over a hundred in a nightmare as the tracking bonus lets you fit tachyons
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#18 - 2012-10-14 22:29:41 UTC
Arch Stanton's Neighbour wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
18+34 falloff with Null.


that's a joke

56 optimal with scorch and amarr bs IV in an apoc
over a hundred in a nightmare as the tracking bonus lets you fit tachyons

he was speaking from the perspective of "fun" not efficiency. personally i dont find missioning, or really any pve other than sleepers and incies even remotely fun thugh, so what do i know
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#19 - 2012-10-14 22:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcosian
Assuming your using it for PVE either ship will work great.

As for my choice I have mainly flown the NM/Paladin with tengu for angel/guristas missions. If you mission in amarr space NM/Paladin will be king with their huge DPS and really long range. And they will plow through missions with ease since you can alpha pretty much anything BC and below.

I haven't flown a mach and really don't have a reason to. Sure it's the "best" all around BS but it uses ammo like no other and I don't feel like carting around/buying 100k rounds every couple of days. But with lasers using faction crystals each one last about 4000 shots and since you only need 4 at a time you can buy 40 or so and literally run missions for months without having to buy new ones.

As for the mach being faster at missions it may be on the ones with long travel times between gates but there are only 2-3 missions like that so most of the time the NM can sit still and kill everything before it even gets 50km from you. Plus you won't be shooting in falloff all the time like the mach.

One other thing, I can't remember where I saw the dev post/comment but I remember them saying they were going to "reconsider" the mach's really long falloff range so winmatar may be getting hit with the nerf bat when BS get re-balanced next winter.