Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Can I get 5mill missile skillpoints refund on my missile boat alt? Now she is useless as DPS in incursions, after Fury cruises changes she will be completely useless as sniper as well. 110km paper range for missiles isn't enough to reach NPCs orbiting at 100-120km + DPS loss (due to flight time of missiles) is tremendous already.

I just pulled down a set of EFT dat files that purportedly uses the proposed numbers.

ASSUMING the numbers and calcs in these files are correct, then the Hurricane is completely trashed as an arty platform (which is funny given you called it that in your original post).

A plated cane with 720's if going to be 20% over PG with an RCUII. To actually use armor, you literally need to fill up the rig slots with ACRs. Did you really intend to make the hurricane require four fitting devices to use artillery?

A shield cane, as you noted will require one ACR and one RCUII.

Contrast this with an armor harby with 7 vs 6 turrets. It has over 50K EHP and dishes out nearly 100DPS more than the armor cane, while using an RCUII and one ACR.


While the dual medium neuts probably need to be addressed, they're hardly as game breaking enough to require you to completely dumpster the hurricane as an arty ship. You'd be better off leaving the PG and reducing the highs by one (not that I'd want that).

I would suggest holding off on this change until after the BC revision period arrives. Work on the class as a whole without trying to hodge podge the changes for one platform.

Heavy missiles need to be nerfed so CCP can rebalance ships around new stats so those missile ships will be used in the future too.

You can't say Drake isn't OP when that hull gets used in lowsec and nullsec a lot.

True.

It gets used, but not more than other hulls in lowsec, and nullsec we will see what the Zealots will do. So according to your line the Zealot, Cane, Naga, Loki, Nado are all OP too?

Btw, 14th of October says:

1 Zealot 55779
2 Drake 45373
3 Hurricane 27594
4 Naga 26584
5 Loki 25543
6 Tornado 23159
7 Tengu 21838
8 Maelstrom 16372
9 Rokh 13099
10 Stabber Fleet Issue 12411
11 Thrasher 11908
12 Oracle 11884
13 Sabre 11448
14 Cynabal 10552
15 Talos 10203
16 Huginn 9943
17 Legion 9676
18 Manticore 8752
19 Apocalypse Navy Issue 8729
20 Hound 8676

And I tell you something more. The most OP ship in Eve atm is not even in this list. But thats because its got a price tag which will not let everyone use it in numbers in PvP.

about this stupid BS Lili Lu keeps to post - just one. I never said Drakes are not used in low. And most probably all the rest she/he says is as valid as this obvious lie. There is no need for more proof Lili, you show yourself how wrong you are over and over again :)

Well CCP should just make all weapons the same, exact same range, exact same damage.
Then we have a balanced weapon system, but do we really want that ? same for all 4 races ?

Had any luck on the Jita undock this weekend Noemi? If not, maybe you should have chosen a slightly less obvious name for your NPC-corp remote sensor boosting ganglink Vulture alt.

I was going to post this earlier but there was a jump from the edge of space that was way more interesting than arguing with Noemi.

There's two ways to do this:

1) They rebalance ships and tweak missiles after all ships have been rebalanced.
- Problem with this is if they go with new missile stats most of the ships would appear as "broken".
2) Tweak missiles when they are going to rebalance first ships that use those missiles. The way they seem to be doing it.
- Problem: weapon system would appear as "broken".

Actually there's a third way:

3) Rebalance missile ships after everything else is done.
- Problem: way more work for devs.

No its Goons backing themselves in a corner with doctrine and not being able to react, and thus getting themselves farmed by NC.

A zealot gets basically a 50% damage reduction against drakes by virtue or being a zealot, likewise if you can land right in the middle of an alphafleet with zealots....lol 1400mms tracking AB AAAAAAAARRRRRRMMMMOOOOOORRRRR HACS at close range? Yeah, good luck with that.

Evekill being hosed means I can't really prove it atm....but trust me those numbers are the war going on in the north.

While T2 armor plates received an increase in principle amount. There's no fundamental difference between AHACS now (2012) and AHACS during Pandemic Legions war with Northern Coalition (2011).

The reason Pandemic Legion moved from Zealots toward Abaddons are still there. However, in those days there was a near complete focus on Drakes and numbers, instead of battleships. Bring enough hml-Drakes and thier ability to do damage to AHAC's dissapears. So, alot of Drakes were and are a counter to Zealots.

Abaddons were used as counter to the sheer numbers, tank and damage (volley) of hml-Drakes. Why? Because Drakes have battleship damage projection and defenses. Once Drakes were clearly countered by Abaddons. Other entities started focusing on long range battleships like Maelstroms. The benifits of these ships were limited training time to achieve effectiveness because you only needed to train for meta 4 large artillery and battleship damage and tank. Maelstroms were not a counter to Abaddons, but provided they were used correctly they could defeat a equal number of Abaddons.

So, entites went back to AHAC's to directly counter Maelstroms (long range battleships). However, these fleet now rolled around with ALOT of Huginns. Meaning you had to go threw all of those before you could start using Zealots effectively. AHACS were almost dead @ this point. Insert Rokhs here because they're superior to Maelstroms.

Now! Navy Apocalypse are suppose to be a hybrid of Abaddons and Rokhs. They have better range and tracking enabling them to engage AHACS as well as Abaddons, but cannot be out ranged so easly by Tengus and Rokhs. Also, Navy Appocalypse use started in low security space by the powerfull and innovative there (like many things in this game). Navy Apocalypse are good but, are inferior to Abaddons @ 60,000m and below. So, Provided a fleet of hml-Tengus are within Abaddon optimal; A fleet of Abaddons was and is still able to MELT those Tengu's. Once hml-Tengus pulled and maintained range @ 80 - 120,000m from a fleet of Abaddons,damage drops of dramatically. Navy Apocalypse has optimal damage and similar tracking well up to 100 - 110,000m. A fleet of Tengu's are STILL superior to a fleet of Navy Apocalypse; provided there's equal to a slight lean of numbers towards the Navy Apocalypse in terms of numbers.

Navy Apocalypse can be countered or it would be better to say; they can be matched by a fleet of Rokhs.

Note: I remember when I first brought up the fact that those Evekill stats reflected 0.0 fleet doctrines. Players like Gyp who has a post not to far above this one said "how so?" and many others thought that statement was daft too. I was saying that for a year before it became a common fact. When it became truley commonly accepted was when PL started using ROKHS. 1 large entity using a new fleet doctrine and that did massive amount of damage determined what was on that EVE-kill list.

Anyway, AHACS have NOT changed significantly. Black Legion/NCDOT/Nulli are just dealing with alot less numbers compared to what PL was dealing with ALONE versus the old northern coalition. The CFC has lost alot of there numbers and have split into 2 smaller entites much more capable of handling wars on 2 different fronts but, it seems the north is weaker than the south. Which has alot more to do with PL's involvement in the south (Pl being the real leadership of the south (the puppet master)).