EVE General Discussion

CCP has made it quite clear that they are unwilling to make the aggression maps that transferring LE status would require.





So you're saying that the new killrights are only balanced because people in HS are too incompetant to deal with a one way Free for all with CONCORD protected Logistics? What happens when they figure out that all they need is a point, a moderate tank (local or remote), and right click > Invite to fleet.

By the way, funny story, it seems that since killrights will be frontloaded (so you can still shoot back and get a killright even if you survive), anyone in LS is gonna be picking up a huge number of them.



Someone posted a comparison between current killright acquisition.

People in lowsec wont be getting killrights much at all, as they can only incur one from firing at a pod, which (if you know what your doing in a pod) is really really really difficult in lowsec. So in short, this is false.

Edit: The only people who will have killrights against them will be suicide gankers, and pod shooting low seccies.



They've already said putting a bounty on someone will not be anonymous. Dont ask me where I read that, if memory serves a Dev said it somewhere on the forums.



If you have killrights against you, you'll know about it and therefore you should be prepared whenever you go into highsec. In which case you'll be just as likely to succeed and kill people yourself as someone traveling through hostile nullsec. Man up.

Who does that anymore? Random a ship, don't be greedy.



Suicide ganking is literally the easiest form of PvP around, with no risk (losing your ship is not a risk when it is fit to die and only cost 5m ISK).



Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong.



Too bad, can't remember. Look harder, I cant be bothered.

I don't know why I bother, your responses to each post are terrible. I fully expect another bunch of terrible replies to this one.

Catch pods? Anyone with a point. If I catch your pod in LS, why shouldn't I ransom you?



Suicide ganking is exactly as difficult as the target makes it. The fixed cost of a suicide gank is certainly a risk. For one, there's the high probability that the loot/salvage from your target will not cover that fixed cost (especially in the case of ganking miners).
Besides that, you can't claim that losing a ship with a probability of .005 (or whatever the probability per hour of getting a Mack ganked) is more risky than losing a ship with a probability of 1.

By the way, I did the math in another thread, assuming there are an average of 1700 Exhumers mining in HS at any given time, the amortized risk of Suicide ganking throughout the period of HAG was about 500k ISK/hr (you accept this risk in order to mine and return with X isk). Losing 2-3 dessies per hour is an amortized risk of 10-15m per hour (you accept this risk in order to gank and return with hopefully more ISK). Also, a T1 fit Destroyer could not reliably solo gank an Exhumer, but I get how lying about that makes you feel better.

Do the math with more realistic numbers (during HAG, using a T2 Catalyst which, by the way, could only gank untanked Hulks, assuming 3 ganks/hr because more is unlikely):
Miner: Risk 500k isk/hr, Reward 15m isk/hr (every hour). Profit: 14.5m isk/hr
Ganker: Risk 45m isk, Reward ~60m isk/hr (on average, over a number of ganks). Profit: 15m isk/hr. Divide by the 2 accounts you need (Scout/Looter + Gank) and you get 7.5m ISK/hr.
Higher risk, lower reward, and greater uncertainty for the ganker.



Friends with ECM
Friends with DPS
ECM Drones
Mining aligned
Tanking your ship
Scouting
D-Scan

All things you can do to effectively fight back or otherwise avoid being the victim of a successful gank. Choosing not to do anything and complaining that you "couldn't fight back" is ridiculous.



Why should I have to provide evidence for your claim?

You can ask ransom, the only idiot in this affair is the guy who pays because he will get killed 99% of the time anyway.

Who's fault?

And I'm saying that punishing people for catching (not killing) pods in lowsec the same way you punish killing pods is idiotic.



By the same token then, losing your mining ship to a suicide gank is not a risk, as you should have accounted for it when you decided to mine in an untanked Exhumer.

Reread the Soundwave quote. Suicide ganking bare hulls is not meant to be profitable. As it happens, it never was. Only Fit but untanked Exhumers were ever profitable.




If your ship isn't worth a button press to notice the incoming fleet of Catalysts in time to escape, that's your choice.
ECM Drones absolutely do work. Set them on aggressive and they will auto aggro Suicide Gankers.
Just about every profitable gank relies on DPS that takes the whole 20s to apply, plenty of time for your Seboed friends to lock them up and destroy/jam them.
If DPS or ECM friends mean nobody makes an attempt on you, MISSION ******* ACCOMPLISHED.
If you tank your ship, you aren't profitable to gank, so you won't get ganked. Want to claim otherwise, find a killmail that shows a brick tanked hulk getting ganked. I have never seen one.
Scouting works. Your choice not do scout your expensive ship/cargo is exactly that, your choice.

Choosing not to use mechanics does not mean you can claim that those mechanics don't exist.

The fact that the targets CHOOSE to make things easy for their attackers, despite months of opportunities to learn isn't relevant to game mechanics discussions.


And the DevBlog makes no mention of people being able to learn who placed a bounty on their head. Ergo, per the DevBlog, there will be no way to learn who placed a bounty on your head. You claim something contrary to what the Devblog says, and claim you read it somewhere. I ask you, where did you read it?

My 2 iskies :

has it occured to some ppl that some of eve's player base dont like pvp ? i am one of them !

the onlyway i see bounty working is if its tru agents as missions : taget x is in y system go kill and you get z reward
and like was said if you dont block "alts" from collecting then bouties are moot .

tho i read the crimewatch in progress and i think it will go along well with transferable killrights.

as for killrights transfer : i say you already have killrights on you why do you care ? unless you are a noob ganker ... way to introduce player to eve... (dumb&/"$)


as for putting bouties on anyone : this is where i leave the game once again ... i like pve and that is what highsec is for . so leave me the f*** alone !


as for hulkageddon ,suicide gank,gate camps and the likes: having fun is suposed to be for all players not just one that bashes the others ...

thats all i have to say

Pipa makes two reasonable points.

1: It is entirely possible to make it difficult to succeed with a suicide gank. The flip side of that is that the suicide ganker needs to be able to see what precautions have been taken and avoid that target in favor of a suitable one.

2: My understanding is that placing a bounty is anonymous as is putting a kill right up for sale, however both stances are up for discussion and could change at any time.

Kill rights have always been awarded to the victim of a suicide gank, the only difference is that now they are awarded for a suicide gank "attempt".

Both situations are fairly irrelevant in the larger scheme of things as the suicide gank character is rarely in space any longer than it takes to grab a ship and warp to the target. It will only be relevant if the person is taking the time to raise that characters sec status to use in other ways, or if he screws up. Yes, it will happen once in a while, but won't be the norm.

In low sec if you are quick enough to grab a pod you can still ransom, you'll just do so with the knowledge that you should avoid high sec for 30 days afterwards unless you are looking for a fight or are willing to pay to pop yourself (assuming the right has a price tag) to shed it.

Pipa, you are over thinking and what if-ing this thing to death.

There are nearly as may ways to turn this against a high sec citizen as there are ways to punish someone for criminal behavior... and that is a good thing. It opens up new careers on both sides of the law, is simpler to understand in practice (especially with the new easily visible Icons incorporated), and allows former victims at least the possibility to exact revenge or compensation even if they are hopeless at PVP themselves.

Yes, there is value in going over ways this system could be exploited by either side.

Yes, there is value in probing for flaws in the system.

But the concept is sound, and with a little fine tuning will be vastly, vastly superior to the joke of a bounty/kill right system we had before... as well as laying the ground work for further steps that will place even more control over the game environment in the hands of the players on both sides of the law.

If we can get mechanics put in place to determine who the anonymous bounty placer / kill rights seller is we will be pretty close to being there.

A lot of people feel that way about Pipa. Not because he is right but because its like arguing with a radio, and most of what he says is silly and unrealistic.

LOL@pipa splitting hairs about what the dev said about how ganking shouldn't be profitable in order to fit his own personal indention.

Sorry Pipa, you are still wrong. High sec is high sec for a reason. Try to find a game you don't feel the need to constantly complain about. Obviously you don't understand what EVE is supposed to be.

Perhaps Retribution is the start of the end of EVE.

Here's how I interpret the new bounty hunting system:

You place a bounty on someone - anyone - perhaps a guy that accidently bumped you. The same second you've placed your bounty on the pilot, he/she is a valid target for anyone to shoot and kill.

Or lets say you just scanned another pilots ship and you like the contents of his ship. So you place a bounty on him and now you're free to shoot him down and take whatever modules survive.

Or you place a bounty on a corporation or perhaps an alliance - just because you think they have stupid names or come from a certain country. No more wardec. Bounty on and kill for free.

Is this how it's ment to be? Because if this is the case, CCP has just ruined EVE for everyone.

I hope you guys have thought this through.