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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#461 - 2012-10-14 01:41:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
However, due to this, I'm unironically starting the training of a hisec gank the instant one of my accounts is done with its current training regime. I intend to be locked and loaded come the day CCP unironically tries to turn hisec into hello kitty online, just to spite Stoffer.

I think CCP will try and disarm you even more then. Cool

Soon ganking will go from "never intended to be profitable" to "never intended to be feasible".

You mean like Ghost Training, right? Cool

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#462 - 2012-10-14 01:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
This is quite the oposite of hello kitty online.


It will create pvp were there currently is none. How is that a bad thing exactly?

If you're a pvper, and you're out pvping in high sec, you should want people to pvp with. That's exactly what CCP did.


Having to assign killright contracts to specific individuals would be firgging tedious. The public open sounds like a public contract that is created when you set the killright to public. Not everyone is going to accept the killright.

I think you guys are overestimating the number of people that are actually going to take advantage of this stuff. You might end up with a few more people to shoot at, your'e not going to get bombarded by players who flocked to the system just to kill you.

It's pretty much nothing more than a concensual pvp switch. The carebears get to decide if they want to pvp. Holly ****, have you guys never played an MMO that required carebears to willingly pvp? I mean seriously, they're ******* carebears.

Are you scared of a carebear?


Edit:
Do I have this right? Can flippers are going to become legal targets to everyone for a period of time?

And people are upset that other people can shoot them when they're shooting other people? Goddamn can flippers are hardcore.


Also:
Between this and the bounty system, players will be able to police areas of space. This could actually be very interesting.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#463 - 2012-10-14 02:06:17 UTC
Natsett, you don't sound like you're familiar with high-sec pvp at all.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#464 - 2012-10-14 02:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Natsett, you don't sound like you're familiar with high-sec pvp at all.

How so?

Edit:
And what high sec pvp.

This whole change looks like they're trying to create pvp where there is none.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#465 - 2012-10-14 02:10:39 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Natsett, you don't sound like you're familiar with high-sec pvp at all.

How so?

Edit:
And what high sec pvp.

This whole change looks like they're trying to create pvp where there is none.

Are you? I'd rather not type out a lengthly explanation if I could help it.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#466 - 2012-10-14 02:12:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Natsett, you don't sound like you're familiar with high-sec pvp at all.

How so?

Edit:
And what high sec pvp.

This whole change looks like they're trying to create pvp where there is none.

Are you? I'd rather not type out a lengthly explanation if I could help it.

Yes.

But the only parts that matter are how you get a killright, and who can access that killright. The later part being what people seem to have a problem with.
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2012-10-14 03:11:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Risien Drogonne wrote:
Doesn't that just mean you want to be able to pick who can PvP with you? Just like I said? You only want the involuntary PvP to go one-way?

How would that be "picking who can PVP with [me]" in any way, shape or form?

You're attempting to control who can retaliate against you for your aggression. You want to control the supposedly "involuntary" PVP. If your target has no control, why should you?

How would one control who can retaliate against him when he has no bearing on who buys the kill rights?

He's controlling that it's just one person.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#468 - 2012-10-14 03:13:06 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
However, due to this, I'm unironically starting the training of a hisec gank the instant one of my accounts is done with its current training regime. I intend to be locked and loaded come the day CCP unironically tries to turn hisec into hello kitty online, just to spite Stoffer.

I think CCP will try and disarm you even more then. Cool

Soon ganking will go from "never intended to be profitable" to "never intended to be feasible".

You mean like Ghost Training, right? Cool

Yeah, you evil ganker you.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Keran Set
EVE University
Ivy League
#469 - 2012-10-14 03:26:43 UTC
Actually, its not cool , that i read through almost thsi entire thread and the last two pages kinda seemed like the first two...and everyone else, talking about "discussing"...

My though an this whole thing is, that the mechanics are going to change, people will adapt, it has happened before. And again yes, people might now be favored that werent before and vice versa, also happened before.

New players might approach some ways in the game differently than before. So what. There will still be "crime" in high and i bet you it wont really suffer, just play out in new ways.

("He is not flaming the new mechanics, he must be a safe-hungry carebear" -....there was a comment about bleating sheep somewhere around here.)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#470 - 2012-10-14 06:40:43 UTC
Keran Set wrote:
My though an this whole thing is, that the mechanics are going to change, people will adapt, it has happened before.

I'm sure you've realized by now that that doesn't make this a good change.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#471 - 2012-10-14 08:24:17 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
People who don't PVP in highsec telling highsec PVPers how new mechanics will affect highsec PVP.

Sure is valuable discourse there.

I ain't naw NASCAR driver, but I sure think it would do well for y'all to turn right every once in a while.


Well, in all fairness, NASCAR is to racing what McDonald's is to food, or what professional wrestling is to sports, sooooo...

Ni.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#472 - 2012-10-14 14:24:57 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec.
Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer.
Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears.


The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences.

Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets.


So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#473 - 2012-10-14 17:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:


So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..


There is already a high level of security in hisec.

Thing is, you have to be aware of at least basic mechanics --which are explained extensively in the wiki, among a great many other places-- and halfway awake, and have two braincells to rub together.

EVE isn't big enough, and proportionally, hisec is too big for perfect safety to work.

I can see it happening in a universe the size of what's envisioned for say, Infinity (250mn-plus systems, last I heard), and even there the "Core" systems (think of them like "ultra hisec") will be very, very few compared to the rest, and have minimal rewards/content (just enough to get you started with a small reserve, basically.)

Why should complete willing lack of situational awareness be protected in free-PvP/full-penalty-on-death sandbox?

It's not supposed to work like that.

Ni.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#474 - 2012-10-14 17:06:49 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..

So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..."

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#475 - 2012-10-14 20:14:07 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..

So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..."

Highest security.

Just, you know, preventing all non-safe PVP.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#476 - 2012-10-14 21:20:17 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec.
Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer.
Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears.


The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences.

Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets.


So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..

How novel indeed. Isn't that what you already have?
What you want is risk free highsec, which will be the death of this game.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#477 - 2012-10-14 22:20:38 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..

So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..."



You can now put bounty on everyone from everywhere -> this is a buff to ganking-> more pvp as long as you are willing to take the RISK.

You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none.

If someone don't want to get flag because he's risk averse all he has to do is avoid to get flag. The one liking pvp and actually accepting risk he WILL make sort he gets flag to everyone. This wasn't possible before, therefore this is a buff to high sec pvp.

Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes.

brb
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2012-10-14 22:47:14 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none.

Are you seriously going to pretend that the changes which CCP are putting in aren't going to have a drastic effect on supply and demand?

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes.

I guess that answers that question, then. You are actually going to pretend this.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#479 - 2012-10-14 22:50:12 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec.
Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer.
Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears.


The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences.

Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets.


So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..

Low-risk means low-value. Do the math.

If nobody saves the risk-averse from themselves, they will devour their very relevancy.

Risk is a fundamental tenet of Eve Online because it adds value.

That is a fact even in high-security space, as the tutorials clearly indicate (more than once). Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#480 - 2012-10-14 22:58:55 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none.

Are you seriously going to pretend that the changes which CCP are putting in aren't going to have a drastic effect on supply and demand?


Simple, can flip more, gank more and you give to more players the opportunity to shoot at you. Isn't what you want, more pvp?
And I really don't care about "supply/demand" poor argument. Acting like you do right now will give you more pvp opportunities, that's all it matters.


Lord Zim wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes.

I guess that answers that question, then. You are actually going to pretend this.


There's no question around, just a fact: you're using of all the possible words in your dictionary just to say you don't want to be less safe in high sec. And that, any one with even a low English level already understood.

brb