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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

First post First post
Author
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#641 - 2012-10-12 23:42:16 UTC
Oh yes! I am so glad you are bringing back the circle damage indicators instead of the 3 bars we have now! for anyone who wasn't around 8 or so years ago these targeting icons is similar to how EVE used to look (minus the flashes and targeting range stuff)

it looks great!

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Luka Datitties
Star-Gate Command
#642 - 2012-10-13 00:13:15 UTC
I would vote for counter clockwise. To me this makes the most sense. When you have something positive like shields and armor, it makes sense that the bar would light up clockwise when I am gaining HP and counter clockwise when I am losing HP. Much like fuel tank in your car. To me a direct relation to real life scenarios and the perception that develops really helps the argument for what is intuitive and what is not.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#643 - 2012-10-13 00:19:28 UTC
Luka Datitties wrote:
I would vote for counter clockwise. To me this makes the most sense. When you have something positive like shields and armor, it makes sense that the bar would light up clockwise when I am gaining HP and counter clockwise when I am losing HP. Much like fuel tank in your car. To me a direct relation to real life scenarios and the perception that develops really helps the argument for what is intuitive and what is not.


yahh but when you're gaining speed in a car in real life a speedometer goes clockwise and when u crash and die the speedometer goes counter clockwise or through ur face....

...just sayin.
Sariton Xavian
Mercado Mercator Partners and Associates
#644 - 2012-10-13 04:04:06 UTC
For me, seeing the hit notifications in the overview would be more valuable than screen space. Screen space shows you a very small proportion of the battlefield and stuff that is represented on its edges in the direction of its off-screen-ed-ness tends not to be readable.

It would be nice to be able to represent cumulative recent damage received as a dynamic bar in the overview also (perhaps as a background underlay rather than a column of its own), and have it a metric by which you could sort the overview. I realise the high customisability of the overview could make integrating that feature tricky - but this would by far be the most readable way to identify the greatest threat to you on the battlefield.
Panchatantra
Bunnie Slayers
#645 - 2012-10-13 05:46:13 UTC
Great work.. now make it optional! :)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#646 - 2012-10-13 05:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
+1 for 1 or 2 decimals in the lock/ewar timer countdowns, as crazy as it sounds we're dealing with very small margins in some pvp occasions.

.

Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#647 - 2012-10-13 06:43:51 UTC
devs,

This is in-fight intel. It's good but don't forget...

When you're taking damage 99% of the eve fights are already decided!

What we really need is pre-fight intel, like for example ship velocity vectorsCool

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Jermaine Lafisques
Lightning Tech
#648 - 2012-10-13 07:37:26 UTC

It's great to see Team Pony Express engaging the community at the concept stage. Thanks!

I do not like the circular damage indicators. The current system is easy and intuitive - the shields are on top, underneath them is the armour, and underneath that is the hull. This makes perfect sense. The debate about whether to have damage creep clockwise or counterclockwise is a good illustration of how confusing the round thing is.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it!  (Yogi Berra)

SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
#649 - 2012-10-13 08:59:56 UTC
And what are u doing in a circle for targets that only have two bars not three!

The square icon with three/two layers makes more sense. Surely with all the new effects you know when you are taking damage.

A more important add on would be notification that your drones are taking damage.
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#650 - 2012-10-13 09:05:17 UTC
This looks like we "want you to tell us what you think but we will do what we want anyway".

What is purpose of this blogs when you ignore all negative feedback and just look nice ones?

If you are asking people for sake of asking than dont bother ,it is boring and just giving chance to people that are forum fans to write here.

Through all this pages players noted numerous times that they dont like this ,or they just ask to have option to have old UI to choose when they log in.No you dont give **** you just ignore that.

CCP Fozzie is only start of your team and guy that is really reading feedback ,rest of team this is just sad.It was same with inventory ,now with crime watch (that is epic fail),and lets us not forget bot heaven you made with mining barges together with farmwill named FW (that you needed 6 freaking months to see it is broken what is really sad).

I am really sad that I have both my accounts payed for one year more.

Point is you are not asking for opinion you are just trying to be nice,but you will just continue being stubborn and f... all we will do what ever we want to do,cause we are awesom.

Dont bother to reply ,cause I learned something from you too. I dont care anymore !
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#651 - 2012-10-13 09:15:17 UTC
Ana,

you are ignoring the fact sthat most of the feedback is indeed positive and that the devs react to feedback and adjust things.

.

Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2012-10-13 09:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Fox
Roime wrote:
Ana,

you are ignoring the fact sthat most of the feedback is indeed positive and that the devs react to feedback and adjust things.



Yes cause saying any against is getting ignored and than why to bother at all.

With all respect to you Roime but people are a bit tired of that,they will say on first pages and than they will just say it is waste of time.

I know I sound to bitter but that is cause every time is like this.You have like tons of posts it is cool only cause it looks nice,but is it functional?Why they are so stubborn to give people option to choose.Like I want simple look of inventory and so.

So Roime and I am aware that people will like it ,but you need to take care of people that dont like it too.So give us just that tine option no one will have any butthurt out of that.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#653 - 2012-10-13 10:17:33 UTC
Why do you speak like you represent many people?

Maybe you just go against the tide and don't like changes in general?

This new idea is functional, compresses horizontal width of targets, and brackets will offer new information. Current targets look really dated and don't do anything better than this suggestion, so why the hate?



.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#654 - 2012-10-13 10:45:26 UTC
Ana Fox wrote:
This looks like we "want you to tell us what you think but we will do what we want anyway".

What is purpose of this blogs when you ignore all negative feedback and just look nice ones?

If you are asking people for sake of asking than dont bother ,it is boring and just giving chance to people that are forum fans to write here.

Through all this pages players noted numerous times that they dont like this ,or they just ask to have option to have old UI to choose when they log in.No you dont give **** you just ignore that.

CCP Fozzie is only start of your team and guy that is really reading feedback ,rest of team this is just sad.It was same with inventory ,now with crime watch (that is epic fail),and lets us not forget bot heaven you made with mining barges together with farmwill named FW (that you needed 6 freaking months to see it is broken what is really sad).

I am really sad that I have both my accounts payed for one year more.

Point is you are not asking for opinion you are just trying to be nice,but you will just continue being stubborn and f... all we will do what ever we want to do,cause we are awesom.

Dont bother to reply ,cause I learned something from you too. I dont care anymore !

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

The main reason we don't want to offer both is that it's a pain to maintain.... every time you need to update or fix something, you need to make sure you are not messing up the other thing. Dealing with special cases eats up our time. Also, the code is old. Sometimes parts of it need to be restructured so it makes more sense, and that can even result in better performance for you. But it gets harder and harder to keep the new code and the old code compatible if you need to make those changes.

Of course I like being nice (I'll even put a smiley here to demonstrate that Smile), but we are actually asking for feedback and taking it in. That does not mean we are going to do everything people suggest, or completely change our feature, but we taking it in and evaluating it. We actually spent most of yesterday talking this over, looked at screenshots people posted and discussed many of the suggestions.

I don't see the need to keep responding to people who say the are confused by the health bars, because I've already stated that we acknowledge that people are confused about it and that we are working on it. And in some cases I don't know what to say, because I might not have the answer right now or can't comment on it... it doesn't mean we are not reading it (or should I maybe comment on every single post I read "Roger"?)

On a more personal note it just makes me sad when people act like this. Fozzie is indeed doing a great job, but so is a whole lot of other people I work with. We come here to talk to you guys but it's like your damned if you do and damned if you don't.... and the more people that act like that, the more likely is that we will just not bother and just go watch TV or something.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Soden Rah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#655 - 2012-10-13 10:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Soden Rah
I would like to start by saying that I like the idea of these changes very much.
They put more information "in the world" rather than in a spreadsheet.

I realise that a lot of people are "asking which is shield" but that doesn't seem to me to be much of an issue
as you can easily work that out once you start shooting stuff and as long as it's standardised as
shield armour hull (going around clockwise starting from 12 o'clock) then once learned it's very intuitive and
easy. (you can put in toggle-able tool tips/labels for noobs if needed)

One thing I do note, for those that are colour blind switching the colour from yellow to red might not actually be
helpful. I would recommend also changing the shape as well as colour (basically make sure everything works
in black and white and I think you should be ok). [EDIT: when a ship goes from targeting to agressing]

However for those with colour vision...

As shown you have white targeting elements (the rotating chevrons ect) which I think could be colour coded
according to your overview settings so that they appear red or orange around hostiles and blue/green/purple
around allies/fleetmates. This would help enormously while doing logistics in combat and ensure you don't
accidentally rep the enemy and shoot your fleetmates.... Cos nobody has ever done that before...

Also on the subject of the UI/overview...

My beef with the overview is that it has to be far bigger than it needs to be to show all the info you need.
And in situations where there are more targets than you have screen hight for it becomes incredibly clunky to use.

My thought for improving it is this. (and this should be optional so you can stick with the old overview, at-least initially)

Use abbreviations to condense multiple columns into one or two narrower ones. and allow for multiple sets so you can have
enemy's and allies separately next to each other.
It could look something like this (with tags and symbols as well but I can't type them.

Hostile Column | | Allied column
Distance | velocity | angular | Target info | | Distance | velocity | angular | Target info
12.6km | 105m/s | 0.0023 | GAL-BSH-DOMI-IVY-{N00b} | | 5,274m | 3750m/s | 0.2573 | GAL-CRU-TRAX-EVIL-{Badie1}
15.7Km | 57m/s | 0.0004 | CAL-CRU-BLAK-IVY-{Stufee} | | 27.4Km | 54m/s | 0.0001 | MIN-BSH-MAEL-EVIL- {Badie2}

Now you can see the ships Race-Class-Type-Alliance/Corp-Name all in one column (with the ability to sort by any of the above in the options.) and you can have both allies and hostiles sorted however you like to allow you to both shoot the enemy and do logistics easily. (the target info column would be a bit like the mouse over ticker info currently, but condensed)

Of course this would require a standardised 3~4 letter abbreviation set for all ships/objects in the game but that shouldn't be to difficult to sort out (most ships/classes have abbreviations in common use anyway).
The item description of items could be updated to include their abbreviations.
Which could also be used for searching for items, which would help with some of the more hard to spell ships.
Shemmy
The Order Of Entropy
#656 - 2012-10-13 10:46:49 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
devs,

This is in-fight intel. It's good but don't forget...

When you're taking damage 99% of the eve fights are already decided!

What we really need is pre-fight intel, like for example ship velocity vectorsCool


So what you're saying is that you want more ways to decide if a fight is worth engaging before you commit?

Did you post this from the wrong character? It's not exactly RvB mantra.
Bubanni
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#657 - 2012-10-13 10:56:31 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Ana Fox wrote:
This looks like we "want you to tell us what you think but we will do what we want anyway".

What is purpose of this blogs when you ignore all negative feedback and just look nice ones?

If you are asking people for sake of asking than dont bother ,it is boring and just giving chance to people that are forum fans to write here.

Through all this pages players noted numerous times that they dont like this ,or they just ask to have option to have old UI to choose when they log in.No you dont give **** you just ignore that.

CCP Fozzie is only start of your team and guy that is really reading feedback ,rest of team this is just sad.It was same with inventory ,now with crime watch (that is epic fail),and lets us not forget bot heaven you made with mining barges together with farmwill named FW (that you needed 6 freaking months to see it is broken what is really sad).

I am really sad that I have both my accounts payed for one year more.

Point is you are not asking for opinion you are just trying to be nice,but you will just continue being stubborn and f... all we will do what ever we want to do,cause we are awesom.

Dont bother to reply ,cause I learned something from you too. I dont care anymore !

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

The main reason we don't want to offer both is that it's a pain to maintain.... every time you need to update or fix something, you need to make sure you are not messing up the other thing. Dealing with special cases eats up our time. Also, the code is old. Sometimes parts of it need to be restructured so it makes more sense, and that can even result in better performance for you. But it gets harder and harder to keep the new code and the old code compatible if you need to make those changes.

Of course I like being nice (I'll even put a smiley here to demonstrate that Smile), but we are actually asking for feedback and taking it in. That does not mean we are going to do everything people suggest, or completely change our feature, but we taking it in and evaluating it. We actually spent most of yesterday talking this over, looked at screenshots people posted and discussed many of the suggestions.

I don't see the need to keep responding to people who say the are confused by the health bars, because I've already stated that we acknowledge that people are confused about it and that we are working on it. And in some cases I don't know what to say, because I might not have the answer right now or can't comment on it... it doesn't mean we are not reading it (or should I maybe comment on every single post I read "Roger"?)

On a more personal note it just makes me sad when people act like this. Fozzie is indeed doing a great job, but so is a whole lot of other people I work with. We come here to talk to you guys but it's like your damned if you do and damned if you don't.... and the more people that act like that, the more likely is that we will just not bother and just go watch TV or something.


I think you guys are doing a good job with taking in feedback, like I am sure you will take in my 1 decimal in countdowns under 10 sec (9.9 and down)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Shemmy
The Order Of Entropy
#658 - 2012-10-13 10:58:45 UTC
FWIW - I think this looks awesome and I for one have no problem comprehending how a rotating damage bar divided into three sections works.

Eve players have been bitching about the UI on and off since time immemorial and frankly this is a huge step forward in appearance. I've been kind of expecting something like this for a while based on some of the trailer videos that have come out and it's going to look pretty shiny when it's implemented.

Small targeted engagements will benefit immensely from being able to work out who's dealing the most damage and thus focusing their fire accordingly. 500 v 500 fleet fights, not so much, but vOv for them tbh as it's no worse than now.

Finally, what is it with this "make it optional" crap that comes every time CCP come out with a change? There was one thing that needed to be made optional for performance reasons (CQ) but it seems to be a new mantra that people jump on just because they don't like change. Do you really want a client that balloons even further in size because you want to continue to live in 2006? Really? Do you think building in two different visualisation mechanics for bits of the UI at a time is really a way to build maintainable, robust, performant code? *sigh*
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#659 - 2012-10-13 11:02:16 UTC
Bubanni wrote:

I think you guys are doing a good job with taking in feedback, like I am sure you will take in my 1 decimal in countdowns under 10 sec (9.9 and down)
Thank you Smile
I'm taking it in but I might not do itP I think I actually changed the string so it only has 1 decimal and I think it's probably best to keep it that way for all times.... but we'll see Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#660 - 2012-10-13 11:05:19 UTC
Quote:
But it gets harder and harder to keep the new code and the old code compatible if you need to make those changes.


EVE 2.0? Cool