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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#621 - 2012-10-12 22:17:51 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Can someone please explain why "bad" comes about when someone put's a bounty on your head? Or your Dad's head??


That is the initial reaction. You see, if you see someone with a bounty placed on him, the first reaction is... what did he do to get that bounty on him? However, if almost everyone has a bounty on top of him, you'll be special if you don't have one, so then people will doubt you even more, I guess.

Regardless. That's not the intention of the bounty system is it? It's designed for you so that you can put a bounty on whomever pisses you off the most, or slap on a bounty on the person responsible for destroying your latest ship etc. This I can understand. But allowing it to be placed on everyone out there completely makes the proposed bounty system pointless.

A: it is put on too many people making a bounty meaningless.
and
B: it gives the wrong message to new players that the first thing they can get is a bounty on their head.

What's the use of putting a bounty on a noob you say? EXACTLY, what's the point? It remains on that character if he doesn't seek out risky situations and doesn't get himself shot. And the reward for destroying the noob in his small frigate is not worth the cost of destroying him in high-sec. So why would you be able to put a bounty on him in the first place? People have money to burn and they do stupid stuff. I can imagine idiots slapping bounties on any player they see in the local of a rookie system, just "for fun". And that is not an intended outcome of this proposed bounty hunter system. I'm sure the CCP developers did not think about this one when they designed it.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

And this is EvE.... everyone already does doubt your motives or actions.... or they are a moron...


Hehe, fair enough. Roll
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#622 - 2012-10-12 22:36:28 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Alexander Renoir wrote:


ALL you forget is the FACT that my main char is a nice guy who likes to help other players. Now imagine a new player I want to help and who sees my bounty because of some other dumb player gave me a bounty!
How should I explain an absolute new player, WITHOUT ANY knowledge of this game, that I really just like to help him? I have 300 Mill ISK bounty on my head. I must be a bad guy. No one will have help from a man with a high bounty.

You at CCP do not really play ALL possible situations before you make an decision. So I will stop helping other players. Perhaps I will gank especially new players! Why? I will have alrady bounty on my head after this crap. It is useless to take care of my reputation.

ABSOLUTE BAD IDEA CCP!


hey I already told you I'm not a game designer, I don't know why you care so much about my opinion on itBig smile but I like that you're a nice guy and help new players, it's really cute :3

Punkturis has bounty on her head on TQ now, I hope that doesn't mean people don't see me as a nice person!



To prove CCP Punkturis' point about not being annoying on the forums means you're less likely to get bounties I'm going to rat all day the saturday after the expansion comes out and put it all as a bounty on Alexander Renoir.

I reckon that'll be at least 200mil or so.

Lesson today children: Eve Game Devs think that the community should decide what is acceptable and what isn't in a game and then dish out their own punishments.

Currently player justice can only be dealt out to those who gank people in high sec etc. Now there is an incentive to dish it out to people who make me lose IQ points by reading their posts too.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#623 - 2012-10-12 22:49:17 UTC
Anton Zuber wrote:
Sorry if I'm duplicating, but 31 pages of mostly nothing is more than I'm willing to read.

Anyhow, I like the direction you are going with these changes. There are some really good ideas in this. Limiting bounties by the value of the ship (or pod) that is lost is rather brilliant. I like. I do have a couple concerns however.

My first concern, is the kill rights for sale. This could be a HUGE griefing tool if it is done wrong and I didn't see much in the way of details on this one in the dev blog. If you can randomly buy kill rights on anybody for a mere million ISK that's gonna happen constantly. Nobody will be safe. This idea scares me a lot.

My other concern is the issue of bounties. We're suddenly going to be able to place a bounty on anyone. Not just the bad people. And here's kind of what I see is going to happen with that.

Bob: Hi
Griefer "Moneybags": Bob BOUNTIED! 100k
Frank: what?
Griefer "Moneybags": Frank BOUNTIED! 100k
Joe: hey wtf?
Griefer "Moneybags": Joe BOUNTIED! 100k
.
.
.

People with more money than sense are going to slap bounties on anything that moves. Now, since this doesn't give kill rights in itself maybe that's not such a problem for the recipients of this undirected rage. But for the bounty hunters, it will be. You'll suddenly be stuck with the task of sorting out which potential targets have a bounty worth chasing down, and which do not. And there will be lots and lots and lots of bounties to sort through right from day one. And if you're stuck clicking on names in space all the time to do that, it's going to be bad.

So we're going to need a way to sort targets on overview by the value of a bounty, preferably sorting them by several levels so we can see high bounties, good bounties, decent bounties, and just prune out the ones that just aren't worth noticing. This should all be user configurable because my definition of what is worth chasing down may differ from yours.


You mean it will just be like everything else in Eve? He with the highest tolerance for tedium wins?

Sounds like its working as intended.
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#624 - 2012-10-12 22:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Anton Zuber wrote:
[quote=CCP Punkturis]

This is another fine example of CCP being ridiculously naive. Where do they keep you guys? Have you even seen the internet before? seriously? You are COMPLETELY WRONG!

To combat your extreme ignorance of the world around you I demand that you now go to a chat room in EVE. Do so anonymously as just an average user. Talk about things. What the subject is, is irrelevant, just talk. I GUARANTEE YOU that before an hour is up? someone will BLOCK YOU and flag you (RED) with -10 status. Odds are, it will happen more than once before the hour is up.



I would dare to say, anyone who trys to subject any chat channel to a whole hour of them just blatantly rambling or trying to force conversation on people or just injecting in general, isn't particularly very nice at all. I'll even dare to say they deserve a couple of blocks and red flags just for being obnoxious.

No one should have to be subjected to that. Sometimes, the kid getting picked on the bus isn't actually getting bullied. Sometimes, the kid is just a little jerk, and will have to deal with people taking it out on him his whole entire life, never realizing and always blaming the nature of the world.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#625 - 2012-10-12 22:53:53 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:
However in your example 5 freighters have gone boom and would have had to be replaced, thats isk payed into other players wallets and 5 freighters that need building rather than isk disappearing into a CONCORD shaped void and a large amount of bugger all happening. From a purely industrial standpoint I know which one I would prefer, especially if I'm the one building the ships for you.

Actually, I build my own freighters and other ships, so I get them at cost.

True though, for those that buy their ships their out-of-pocket loss is a bit higher.

The other point is, there is a guaranteed payout of over 200m on an empty freighter. Add in 1b of cargo and say 50% drops, then that same freighter is worth (1b + 1b * 50%) * 20% = 300m bounty reward, add 500m cargo dropped = 800m to gank that freighter.


So it shifts down the chain to the people who supply your materials, the point is isk is still flowing from player to player rather than simply disappearing. The other thing is if you can do it under the 'current' (ie new) system as it is now then whats the incentive for them to spend developer time making it easier for you, especially when it goes against what the system is being designed to do (ie make bounties actually mean something).

One final point i wanted to mention is this, think of the opportunities for player driven gameplay in that bounty ditching scenario you proposed. Theres plenty of them, from interdicting your supply routes so you cant build the five freighters you need to ditch that bounty to gatecrashing the freighter kills so you dont get a share of the bounty money and lose more ISK than you planned to. I think anything which gives those kinds of opportunities should be left as it is, provided that it accomplishes what it was designed to do (which i believe this new bounty system does).

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#626 - 2012-10-12 23:43:39 UTC
Quote:
I forsee a future where every EvE player has a bounty on their heads...

And it's gonna be pretty awesome.

The new bounty mechanic provides all sorts of new gaming tools. You could put a bounty on a high-sec POS you want removed and then hire mercs to take it down; their final payment is delivered when the POS is destroyed. Corps and alliances can place bounties on other corps and alliances to incentivise action against them. Industrialists can make their competitors jucier gank targets. Bounty-up bad posters on the forums. And probably a ton of other meta-gaming **** I can't think of right now.

The real problem here is killrights purchasing and how it is done. This really needs to be iterated on NOW rather than after release. Bounty-hunting and killrights activation needs to be handled through the LE mechanic rather than some BS gangbang scenario where anyone can shoot at your target. Others have said it better than I can, but you need to make bounty-hunting a real contract profession. It can be so much better, why settle for a terrible, easily gamed mechanic?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#627 - 2012-10-12 23:51:11 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
but we want to add an option to show pilots with buyable kill rights in there too, with some specific icon and color (I already mentioned pink, I WANT PINK)


But for us poor lost colour blind souls, pink look tend to look grey :/

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#628 - 2012-10-12 23:53:13 UTC
Gris X wrote:
Furthermore, I think that if/when used, the suspect flag needs to be more crippling: Someone with a suspect flag should get aggro from guns near a gate, and be prevented from docking in stations. Buying the kill right and activating it can be done from Local window.


That's so easily exploitable it's not even funny. You dislike person A: you stalk him and make sure he is constantly aggressed and can't dock, 100% death ensured. Hey, you might not even dislike him, you just do this for fun (am pretty sure I'd do this, I been known to suicide gank people not for profit, just for the laughs).

No, their suggestion is pretty solid. Plus, the post above you by Bubanni, even highlights how the suspect flag alone (in a 'weaker' state than your suggestion) still can be abused quite heavily.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#629 - 2012-10-12 23:55:41 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Thanks for the dev blog CCP.

But one thing that is worth mentioning that I don't like one bit: it will be able to place a bounty on anyone.

Now, I know that the -1.0 sec rating doesn't work. 0.0 sec players that rat usually end up with high sec ratings and bounties should be placed on those players as well if others want to do it. But you are also targeting the neutrals, the high-sec dwellers, the PvE specialists roaming incursions. These players are potential targets as well, which is a problem. This could lead to grief-issues.

A group does an incursion, but one rich player player/corp, not part of the fleet suddenly puts a bounty on one of the fleet members and bang, he becomes a target while the fleet may need to rely on his skills/knowledge to see the incursion being run successfully.

As such, one additional rule needs to be added:
Bounties can not be placed on NPC alliances, corporations, or their members. This can not be used to escape bounties as such. If a player in a player corp acquires a bounty on top of his head, it will remain active even if he joins an npc corp later.

To make things fair and square. Players that are part of an NPC corporation/alliance can not acquire kill-rights, even if they are targeted in high-sec. They are part of an NPC corporation that acts as protector, but also as constrictor. If you stay in an NPC corp, you are safe, but you can not reap the benefits of being able to sell kill-rights either.



You're suggesting that people should be 'safe' from risks that others take. You're playing the wrong game, how did you end up in EVE to begin with? It's people like you that makes me wish we could bring back the days when you could kill people in highsec and then run from CONCORD.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#630 - 2012-10-13 00:01:39 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Josef Huffenpuff wrote:


yes, this is the whole point. You can indeed place bounty on a hi sec freighter pilot. BUT
- a high sec freighter pilot still has to have a flag before you can agress him
- if you choose to suicide gank him anyway, then yes you can take less of a loss on the gank by claining bounty
- but SOMEBODY still has to pay.



And it still leads to grief issues. How exactly is this going to encourage new players to join EvE online? The moment they get out in their pod on their way to their noob ship, they are a potential target to have a bounty placed on their head. Of course. attacking them makes the attacker a criminal. But what if you just have a few alts that you don't care about? You can grief new players with this.

I agree that it's also possible to do this now. But right now, there is no incentive. A new player has no negative sec rating, a new player can not be wardecced. A new player is just there to enjoy the first moments of the game. And that's how it should be. Don't give others incentives to collect bounties on targets that should never be included in this bounty hunter system.

So CCP, add immunity to all NPC starter corps and all NPC default corps (players are not part of a player-corp, but no longer in the noob corp). That's it. Respect the new players and those that favor PvE rather than PvP.


It's a great way for the noob to learn the game. First couple of days I was flying around in highsec, there was this pirate sitting off the gate by some bit. I landed 15km from the gate, as we could not warp to zero on gates back then. While slowboating towards the gate, he locked me and my brother, and killed my brothers ship. I warped off in panic, and saw the pirate flee to safety away from CONCORD. I learned a valuable lesson that day: you're not safe anywhere, and you should always be able to defend yourself.

It would be good if our lazy carebears who don't understand this game, would learn this lesson as well. It's something CCP failed to teach them with the extremely safety-catering environment we currently have in this game. I guess more subscriptions > games history and future. (and as reference: you do realise that a constant isk inflow, with low expenses, that NPCing highsec players do, is really bad for economy? I got four years of basic economy study and it was quite obvious straight away that there is no way you can ever 'print money' and get away with it).

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Anton Zuber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2012-10-13 00:03:06 UTC
Bodega Cat wrote:
Anton Zuber wrote:
[quote=CCP Punkturis]

This is another fine example of CCP being ridiculously naive. Where do they keep you guys? Have you even seen the internet before? seriously? You are COMPLETELY WRONG!

To combat your extreme ignorance of the world around you I demand that you now go to a chat room in EVE. Do so anonymously as just an average user. Talk about things. What the subject is, is irrelevant, just talk. I GUARANTEE YOU that before an hour is up? someone will BLOCK YOU and flag you (RED) with -10 status. Odds are, it will happen more than once before the hour is up.



I would dare to say, anyone who trys to subject any chat channel to a whole hour of them just blatantly rambling or trying to force conversation on people or just injecting in general, isn't particularly very nice at all. I'll even dare to say they deserve a couple of blocks and red flags just for being obnoxious.

No one should have to be subjected to that. Sometimes, the kid getting picked on the bus isn't actually getting bullied. Sometimes, the kid is just a little jerk, and will have to deal with people taking it out on him his whole entire life, never realizing and always blaming the nature of the world.


I think you're missing the point. I didn't say to try to control the subject. I didn't say be obnoxious. I said just talk. Be as careful as you like. Agree with everyone, be polite. Odds are you'll get BLOCKED and RED flagged within the first hour anyhow. The simple hard truth here is that simply using the public chat channels in eve, can be hazardous to your health.

Which is exactly my point. With this upcoming bounty system. You can expect that a lot of people are going to get bounties on their head for no reason at all. Welcome to EVE. Welcome to the internet. I raped your mother. Have a nice day.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#632 - 2012-10-13 00:04:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Nice to see this finally getting updated, it's long overdue (nearly a decade now). Good stuff tho. P

* Buyable killrights is something we players requested since launch of this game, it's long loooong overdue, and you could never have added changes to the bountysystem without adding this. Good that you did. While tying it to the CW-update has some benefits (personally I like that you can do it on the fly, in space), it also has risks - currently if someone has killrights on you, you could easily add them to address book and/or keep an eye out while travelling. With the new system..
- how/will there be any kind of indication for the bad guy, that a killright on him has been sold? Let's just make it clear, I like that there's "more" consequences, but this effectively locks people out 100% from even a quick answering-phone session, anyone with killrights on him must 100% dock or cloak up everytime anything might interrupt him, at all, especially in highsec. It's quite a major change.

* The bounty pool, and payout as portion of isk value, seems like a damn good solution to many potential exploits. Expanding it to corp, alliances, and (in the future) specific structures is really nice.

Tho, here comes the critisism:

* How will anything of this make "bounty hunter" a viable career choice in EVE? The only thing that allows you to hunt down people is the buyable killrights system, which obviously has some limits. You'd have to basicly have an updated asset-like list that show people where the potentially targets is, which in itself would be bad because it virtually would be more powerful than locator agents. But a bounty-hunter would need to know where there is targets, he'd have to move ships, possibly scout the target (especially if he's not in highsec), etc. I.e. this is far far from newbie friendly, and a good waste of time for an older player.

* And the effect of this is that it effectively makes the "leaderboard" and 'see old bounty claims' essentially.. useless. The only people you'll see on top of those lists is highsec wardeccers (Jita campers etc), and possibly lowsec vultures preying on their own. You won't see any players dedicated to this at all. Which is a shame, I'd love to actually give it a shot myself, but it needs an intel tool.. and same time it needs to not be too powerful either. Extremely delayed, or just a plain list of names and we'd have to locate and do all research etc ourselves. Billboards won't cut it, and CQ frankly is a really ****** idea, not a single player I know has that stuff turned on as it's zero-content and just slowing down ship-swapping, as is. You need an ingame tool, like the market or map.

There's more to it, but that's the more important stuff, and a starters. You have made a decent platform, but really, you need to work on the intel tool, and it would be nice with a clarification on how the guy being hunted will have updates about his present situation.. Pirate


hey the first dev blog you comment on and don't mention how terrible UI I make is the dev blog for the team I make UI for!


It's because I don't hate you, I just think you have such a horrible horrible taste when it comes to the UI. Or you might just be running on an 800x600 Win95 setup? Plus, who knows, you might be very good at content rather than graphics, maybe you got the wrong job! P

(I'll even give you a cookie: out of the three CCP employees I constantly give smack on the forums, you're the only one of those I don't flat our dislike. But I'd buy either of you three a beer if I'd ever meet you away from the screen. I'm quite chill. But since a) this is your job, and b) I'm an old customer who spent alot of time/provided you with income, I also feel you guys should be getting critisism when you do a poor job. And, in your case, you just happened to be responding to me smack in-CCPs-general-direction, so since then, you have been a constant target - as you seem to take it very personal, I just assume you're responsible for these horrible changes!)

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#633 - 2012-10-13 00:06:31 UTC
EmmaFromMarketing wrote:


What's a Frighter?


A very scary ship?

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#634 - 2012-10-13 00:16:48 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
It is interesting that a person with a kill right for sale on their head actually needs to be aware of whether there is a defensive fleet in the area. If you warp into a belt where the miner has alert friends waiting, they could well activate the kill right and start targeting the second you come out of warp. You could be dead or half dead before Concord arrives, meaning your gank is much more likely not to be successful (Suicide ganks rarely are a one salvo affair).

The flip side of this is that if despite the interference from the defensive fleet your suicide gank is successful and the defensive fleet kills you before Concord arrives (or at least gets the final blow), you still get your insurance payout.


I think, the first couple of weeks after this introduction, I'll be lurking around highsec ice fields, looking for people with buyable killrights.. Blink

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#635 - 2012-10-13 00:20:42 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/10/kill-rights-kinder-gentler-highsec.html

The march towards a kinder gentler highsec continues today with the full explanation of kill rights, one of the new features for the Retribution expansion, by CCP.

Transferrable Kill Rights
The only useful thing coming out of the kill rights section of the devblog is that kill rights will now be transferable This has been a long time coming.

Except that they're not really transferable. Rather, you can purchase the ability to activate a kill right for 15 minutes. This ability can be now purchased in space, with a right click, when you're on top of your target. If you happen to kill the target, the kill right expires immediately.

There's a big but coming, though. We all like big buts, right?

Highsec Gangbang
Kill rights are really gangbang rights. The one-on-one affair that kill rights used to be. No more. Activating a kill right means that anyone can attack and kill, without consequence. Activating a kill right is to apply the suspect flag onto that person.

The Punishment and The Crime
The punishment needn't fit the crime. Unlike the current system, where you actually have to blow something up for a victim to get a kill right, under the new system, simply aggressing a non-outlaw, non-suspect in highsec will give the "victim" a kill right.

Failed ganks are to punished, according to the new mechanics. Let's say you fail on a highsec gank. CONCORD kills you and you lose your ship (not too mention getting ridiculed in local for being fail.) CCP says that's not quite punishment enough, and will give the surviving victim the right to kill you anywhere anytime for the next month. But that's not punishment enough either, since a kill right is actually a license to gangbang. You'll also get a special icon (shaped like a target) that tells everyone that you can be killed anywhere anytime, and with a simple right click (and maybe payment of some ISK) the kill right on you can be activated.

Alts Voiding Kill Rights
Undock in a shuttle. An alt activates the kill right. Blows up shuttle. Kill right completed.

CCP will fix this cleverness quickly, since it voids the entire kill right system on zero day.

Kill Right Baiting
We can expect to see this nerfed in the future.

Load a blingy-ship up with warp stabs. Wait for someone to buy the kill right off your alt. Warp to station. Wait out the fifteen minute timer. Watch them curse. Earn ISK. Rinse and repeat for the rest of the month.

We'll see this done with blingy PvP fit ships and nearby logis, as well. I'm sure lots of different tactics to kill right bait will appear over time.

This is all perfectly, fine, but it will upset carebears, and CCP will respond. Carebears are naturally quite stupid, and CCP has determined it is their job to protect them.

Boiling a Frog
As I wrote previously, this is another step towards sunshine and rainbows in highsec. Kill rights, rather than encouraging PvP in highsec, will effectively reduce it over the long haul. There'll still be those people who don't give a **** about the mechanics, but there'll be more people who will give up their highsec criminality, because being gangbanged at any time and any place is not desirable.

CCP still gets to say that they have mechanics that allow highsec PvP. Wardecs. Bounties. Kill rights. But those systems also actively discourage highsec PvP, through mechanics that weigh far more in favour of the victims than the aggressors.

CSM7
Kudos to CSM7 for failing to recognize CCP's new philosophy for highsec development. For not speaking up. For rolling over and taking it. Nary a criticism from these clowns. Why? Because they fear loss of access to CCP devs. Access to development gives them a sense of power. Chatting up a celebrity dev nou doubt gives on a warm special feeling inside. Access alone is power, they'll tell us. But it's a false power, because they've nothing to back it up.

CCP tells the CSM that they plan to offer transferable kill rights. Someone on the CSM yells "Ship it now!" No questions asked. Just cheerleading.

The only the power the CSM can wield is that of public opinion. If the CSM cannot get the support of the playerbase behind them, they've zero leverage against CCP. It'll just be a few dudes, who think they're special, banging their head against a wall.

Better to be buddies with the devs while the game slowly gets ****** over, than to not be buddies. At least the CSM is making new friends. Extra Christmas cards in December.


Nice summary. I personally like that the buyable killrights has a (fairly short) time limit, tho, but apart from that: gave you +1

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#636 - 2012-10-13 00:23:17 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
So you can only use an alt to void a kill right on you if that kill right has been made public. And to do so, your alt has to pay isk to the one who offered the kill right to the public. And that's basically the same as paying recompense to the guy you attacked.
Carebears will end up giving away kill rights for free most of the time. The same as they let allies (before the change) onto their wardecs for free.

Carebears generally just want quick revenge, and giving away kill rights for free is what most of them will end up doing.


They probably even would like to pay people to do it for them, so if CCP wanted to give the ultimate boost for carebears, they'd let them set negative numbers on the killright cost (but it'd only trigger if it was successfully claimed).

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#637 - 2012-10-13 00:23:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Kreed Ellecon wrote:
so as of right now i can go to my overview settings and tag every player with buyable kill rights and select them to be color coded in my overview,,, that option does not exist right now,,,


there's a show pilots with bounty's option (which currently only works in the overview, not in local list - but we're fixing for the expansion) but we want to add an option to show pilots with buyable kill rights in there too, with some specific icon and color (I already mentioned pink, I WANT PINK)

(I had already replied to this question here - does nobody notice my posts??????????)


Hey... I don't know if you guys have acknowledged this issue with the overview...

But the filtering is totally completely "whack". As in, it is totally nonsensical in how you filter things. It shows things based on UNION logic, so it won't show corp members, it will only show CORP members with bounties, if there is a bounty clicked, or for example... it won't show corp members with NEUTRAL standings if you don't have neutral standings checked. Meaning, you can never ONLY see corp members, you can only ever see CORP members AND NEUTRALS.

Does that make sense? Can you please seriously look into that functionality (at least ackowledge it's working as intended or not please?)

Thank you.

Where I am.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#638 - 2012-10-13 00:27:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
So you can only use an alt to void a kill right on you if that kill right has been made public. And to do so, your alt has to pay isk to the one who offered the kill right to the public. And that's basically the same as paying recompense to the guy you attacked.
Carebears will end up giving away kill rights for free most of the time. The same as they let allies (before the change) onto their wardecs for free.

Carebears generally just want quick revenge, and giving away kill rights for free is what most of them will end up doing.


No, carebears are usually looking to make a profit. Only the newest of noobs would give it away.

If the carebear is lucky, the person with the kill right on their head will be skillful enough to kill their attackers or evade being killed by them many times. Even a relatively low payment for the kill right could add up to a nice profit if it is invoked repeatedly over the 30day period.

Even if the target uses and alt to pay for the kill right and lets himself get popped right away, he had to pay at least partial compensation.

Carebears are all about business you see, especially if it is at someone else's expense. Revenge is just icing on the cake.


Dunno man, I've had plenty of carebears pay me to suicide gank and/or wardec and/or AFK cloak and/or deny-space on random people they dislike (for various reasons, everything from a business enemy to someone who had killed the carebear previously). I honestly know more pure carebears that'd willingly pay so someone kills this guy, no matter the cost, no questions asked.. than the opposite (those who'd try to make a profit off it). I could see both sides existing, but most pure carebears I know are very possessive, and want to 'own/control' space/markets. They'll even drive their own business into the ground if they take someone with them.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Anton Zuber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#639 - 2012-10-13 00:47:37 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
So you can only use an alt to void a kill right on you if that kill right has been made public. And to do so, your alt has to pay isk to the one who offered the kill right to the public. And that's basically the same as paying recompense to the guy you attacked.
Carebears will end up giving away kill rights for free most of the time. The same as they let allies (before the change) onto their wardecs for free.

Carebears generally just want quick revenge, and giving away kill rights for free is what most of them will end up doing.


No, carebears are usually looking to make a profit. Only the newest of noobs would give it away.


Dunno man, I've had plenty of carebears pay me to suicide gank and/or wardec and/or AFK cloak and/or deny-space on random people they dislike (for various reasons, everything from a business enemy to someone who had killed the carebear previously). I honestly know more pure carebears that'd willingly pay so someone kills this guy, no matter the cost, no questions asked.. than the opposite (those who'd try to make a profit off it). I could see both sides existing, but most pure carebears I know are very possessive, and want to 'own/control' space/markets. They'll even drive their own business into the ground if they take someone with them.


I agree, I think you fail to appreciate the power of revenge as a motivation. People will pay every dime they've got just to make sure that bastard dies. If kill rights can be bought at any price? People will be lined up outside the door...
Anton Zuber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#640 - 2012-10-13 00:50:13 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Kreed Ellecon wrote:
so as of right now i can go to my overview settings and tag every player with buyable kill rights and select them to be color coded in my overview,,, that option does not exist right now,,,


there's a show pilots with bounty's option (which currently only works in the overview, not in local list - but we're fixing for the expansion) but we want to add an option to show pilots with buyable kill rights in there too, with some specific icon and color (I already mentioned pink, I WANT PINK)

(I had already replied to this question here - does nobody notice my posts??????????)


Hey... I don't know if you guys have acknowledged this issue with the overview...

But the filtering is totally completely "whack". As in, it is totally nonsensical in how you filter things. It shows things based on UNION logic, so it won't show corp members, it will only show CORP members with bounties, if there is a bounty clicked, or for example... it won't show corp members with NEUTRAL standings if you don't have neutral standings checked. Meaning, you can never ONLY see corp members, you can only ever see CORP members AND NEUTRALS.

Does that make sense? Can you please seriously look into that functionality (at least ackowledge it's working as intended or not please?)

Thank you.


You're talking about an overhaul to overviews in general. While I agree, that I would like to see overview gain even more functionality, and get cleaned up a bit, That, is an entire patch all in itself. That's a big subject.