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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#541 - 2012-10-12 16:59:18 UTC
Alexander Renoir wrote:


Why this? Someone who never played offensive and just wants to play WITHOUT beeing a pirat, ganker or a$$hole and just wants to fly his missions, build ships or mines will now get bountys. WHY?


A missioner kills thousands and thousands of innocent people everyday. Face the consequences.

Bounties are a way to exact revenge on other players. Different players have different motives.

I don't place bounties on people who blow up my spaceships, I give them goodfights in local.

I will place bounties on badposters.

.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#542 - 2012-10-12 17:00:38 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


So what if chribba gets a 10b isk bounty on his head??? How is that really going to hurt Chribba??


It limits his movability since he gets a bounty on his head just because he is famous, never because he specifically wronged the anonimous yokel that put a bounty on top of him.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Theoretical situation: What if I feel Chribba slighted me during a supercap trade.... enough so that I'm willing to GIVE AWAY 10 billion isk in the hopes someone will attack him more readily?? Why would this be a bad thing?? Chribba now has to explain why he has a 10b isk bounty, he has to be more careful when flying easy-to-gank or low gankcost-to-payout ratio ships. This is a GOOD thing... it encourages more suicide ganking, it creates a means of social retribution for your slights...


This I can agree with. There is specific reason for you to put a bounty on Chribba. However, what I am against is the fact that several hundreds of other people can also put a bounty on Chribba while he never wronged any of them.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

And so what if people post on an alt, or kill with an alt... Alts are easily identifiable


Not as much as you would think. A forum-troll alt can be just about anyone. There is no way for a player to know which alt belongs to which other characters (other than mere guessing). Only CCP has access to that information.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#543 - 2012-10-12 17:11:18 UTC
Quote:
Modular Work

New modules are much less of a focus this time around for team Super Friends, but there are a few things here we’re doing:

Adjust the ASB to be more reasonable. The ASB is a little on the strong side right now. We want to adjust that while maintaining the overall functionality of the module.
Micro Jump Drive. The classic ‘blink’ ability, allowing ships to maneuver around the battlefield in a new way (with some hefty limitations of course) . We’ll try to get this out on a test server as soon as we can. It’s still some weeks away, but stay tuned.
Salvage Drone. As the name implies, this is a drone. That salvages. Need I say more? Ok, a bit. This is a small drone. It’s a bit worse at salvaging than the modules, but has the advantage of course of having longer range while saving precious slot. Again, we’ll get this out on a test server as soon as it is ready.


Cool stuff, but what about the Reactive Armor Hardener?

Also removal of active armor tanking rig penalties and buffing rep amount of medium and large armor reppers should be considered high priority.

.
CCP Paradox
#544 - 2012-10-12 17:14:41 UTC
Roime wrote:
Quote:
Modular Work

New modules are much less of a focus this time around for team Super Friends, but there are a few things here we’re doing:

Adjust the ASB to be more reasonable. The ASB is a little on the strong side right now. We want to adjust that while maintaining the overall functionality of the module.
Micro Jump Drive. The classic ‘blink’ ability, allowing ships to maneuver around the battlefield in a new way (with some hefty limitations of course) . We’ll try to get this out on a test server as soon as we can. It’s still some weeks away, but stay tuned.
Salvage Drone. As the name implies, this is a drone. That salvages. Need I say more? Ok, a bit. This is a small drone. It’s a bit worse at salvaging than the modules, but has the advantage of course of having longer range while saving precious slot. Again, we’ll get this out on a test server as soon as it is ready.


Cool stuff, but what about the Reactive Armor Hardener?

Also removal of active armor tanking rig penalties and buffing rep amount of medium and large armor reppers should be considered high priority.


Once SoniClover is back from GDC, I will make sure to ask him about the Reactive Armor Hardener.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#545 - 2012-10-12 17:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
This I can agree with. There is specific reason for you to put a bounty on Chribba. However, what I am against is the fact that several hundreds of other people can also put a bounty on Chribba while he never wronged any of them.


Now how do you expect CCP to code in the "only if he wronged them" aspect of this?

There are a thousand ways for someone to "wrong" someone without it affecting their security status. What if I am a miner and I feel that Chribba has wronged me by flooding the local market with Tritanium, or emptied the local belts of Veldspar? To me he has wronged me and a bounty to encourage potential suicide ganks (because remember, a bounty is not a kill right) against him is one way to exert pressure on him.

If I have outraged you with my responses on the forums, and you don't feel that your posting skills are up to the task, you can seek justice by placing a bounty on my character. Of course, to my mind that bounty is in effect a "contract" placed upon me by a vindictive criminal, not a badge of shame.

I will need to play my character accordingly. Since this character stays in high sec, and tends to fly heavily tanked ships there that would be cost prohibitive to suicide gank, that wouldn't be much of an issue.

I would not mind a mechanic be put in place that might allow detecting just who put the bounty on my head. Perhaps a new agent type that I could pay to do the footwork for me and deliver my answer after a period of time has passed. If that happened I could then return the favor, if I was so disposed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#546 - 2012-10-12 17:15:25 UTC
Ponder Yonder wrote:


Actually two questions: will a kill-right be expended when the target is ship-killed or only when pod-killed?


This was covered in the blog. You must have read too fast.

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#547 - 2012-10-12 17:16:52 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:

Once SoniClover is back from GDC, I will make sure to ask him about the Reactive Armor Hardener.


Sweet, thanks for the reply :)


.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#548 - 2012-10-12 17:22:16 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:

2. When a corp or alliance is disbanded, all remaining bounties on it are returned to those who placed the bounties.

How much is returned in a case like this:

I place a 10 mil bounty on a corp. You place a 20 mil bounty on the same corp. 6 million is redeemed from the pool. Then the corp disbands.

Who gets how much back?

That's a good question actually.
I would assume everyone gets a proper percentage back depending on how much they contributed to the pool.

At the moment, 80% is returned from the contribution you made. It's last come, first-served. This means the people that most recently placed a bounty are paid their share first, and so on until the bounty pool is empty.

In your example, you would get back 6.4 Million. You were the first person to give them a bounty, they got killed because of it. So you paid the bounty hunter appropriately.

(Disclaimer on the 80%, nothing is yet finalized, hence the dev blog for feedback and discussion)

A small issue: I place a bounty on an entity. Then I wait. Nothing seems to be happening, no one is collecting my bounty. Well, it turns out that's not true. Bounties on that entity are being collected, just from a previous bounty setters. My offer is buried under previous bounty setters. I want retribution, but Im not seeing it!

If I place a bounty on someone and that someone dies, I want to know, even if none of my isk got paid out.

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#549 - 2012-10-12 17:24:25 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


So what if chribba gets a 10b isk bounty on his head??? How is that really going to hurt Chribba??


It limits his movability since he gets a bounty on his head just because he is famous, never because he specifically wronged the anonimous yokel that put a bounty on top of him.


His mobility is not exactly limited... He can still go where he wants, fly what he wants, etc.... Sure, the bounty might tip the balance between profitably and unprofitably ganking him in a JF or industrial or hulk, but no bounty is going to make it worthwhile to gank his Veldnaught, or CNR, or Kronos... And in almost all of these cases, it's the blling he fits on the ship, and the bling he puts in the cargo hold that really determine gank worthiness. This principle doesn't change, no matter what his bounty is!


Singulis Pacifica wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Theoretical situation: What if I feel Chribba slighted me during a supercap trade.... enough so that I'm willing to GIVE AWAY 10 billion isk in the hopes someone will attack him more readily?? Why would this be a bad thing?? Chribba now has to explain why he has a 10b isk bounty, he has to be more careful when flying easy-to-gank or low gankcost-to-payout ratio ships. This is a GOOD thing... it encourages more suicide ganking, it creates a means of social retribution for your slights...


This I can agree with. There is specific reason for you to put a bounty on Chribba. However, what I am against is the fact that several hundreds of other people can also put a bounty on Chribba while he never wronged any of them.


And when Chribba calls me a liar, who are you going to believe? You really can't verify someone's reason for the bounty...
And what if Chribba, or more likely the Mittani, uses his fame to publicly encourage someone to commit suicide, or to public promote some social taboo.... why shouldn't their fame work against them, and allow hundreds of offended people to donate isk to anyone willing to blow them up (i.e. a bounty).... You can't really verify which bounties are valid or invalid by any game mechanics without gimping bounties to be limited to outlaw type criminals... which are really a minor fraction of EvE's notorious population.

Allowing bounties on Everyone is a great thing... and it allows people to state with their isk who they'd like to see destroyed! It's not like bounties enable killrights... it's just a minor incentive that says "please kill this person if you get the chance... "
Kreed Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#550 - 2012-10-12 17:25:15 UTC
i would like to see a identification option added to overview setting so that i can see players with bounties on them/ buyable kill rights on them so that the hunting of these criminals is easier and quicker,, dont need to go thru 10 steps to find out if i can pop some outlaw passing thru my system
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#551 - 2012-10-12 17:27:12 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
Quote:
Modular Work

New modules are much less of a focus this time around for team Super Friends, but there are a few things here we’re doing:

Adjust the ASB to be more reasonable. The ASB is a little on the strong side right now. We want to adjust that while maintaining the overall functionality of the module.
Micro Jump Drive. The classic ‘blink’ ability, allowing ships to maneuver around the battlefield in a new way (with some hefty limitations of course) . We’ll try to get this out on a test server as soon as we can. It’s still some weeks away, but stay tuned.
Salvage Drone. As the name implies, this is a drone. That salvages. Need I say more? Ok, a bit. This is a small drone. It’s a bit worse at salvaging than the modules, but has the advantage of course of having longer range while saving precious slot. Again, we’ll get this out on a test server as soon as it is ready.


Cool stuff, but what about the Reactive Armor Hardener?

Also removal of active armor tanking rig penalties and buffing rep amount of medium and large armor reppers should be considered high priority.


Once SoniClover is back from GDC, I will make sure to ask him about the Reactive Armor Hardener.

What is GDC and when will he be back exactly?
CCP Paradox
#552 - 2012-10-12 17:28:43 UTC
Kreed Ellecon wrote:
i would like to see a identification option added to overview setting so that i can see players with bounties on them/ buyable kill rights on them so that the hunting of these criminals is easier and quicker,, dont need to go thru 10 steps to find out if i can pop some outlaw passing thru my system




This is already in the overview, and visible in the selected item window too.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Cid Tazer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#553 - 2012-10-12 17:31:26 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Roime wrote:
Quote:
Modular Work

New modules are much less of a focus this time around for team Super Friends, but there are a few things here we’re doing:

Adjust the ASB to be more reasonable. The ASB is a little on the strong side right now. We want to adjust that while maintaining the overall functionality of the module.
Micro Jump Drive. The classic ‘blink’ ability, allowing ships to maneuver around the battlefield in a new way (with some hefty limitations of course) . We’ll try to get this out on a test server as soon as we can. It’s still some weeks away, but stay tuned.
Salvage Drone. As the name implies, this is a drone. That salvages. Need I say more? Ok, a bit. This is a small drone. It’s a bit worse at salvaging than the modules, but has the advantage of course of having longer range while saving precious slot. Again, we’ll get this out on a test server as soon as it is ready.


Cool stuff, but what about the Reactive Armor Hardener?

Also removal of active armor tanking rig penalties and buffing rep amount of medium and large armor reppers should be considered high priority.


Once SoniClover is back from GDC, I will make sure to ask him about the Reactive Armor Hardener.

What is GDC and when will he be back exactly?

Game Developers Conference and it is occuring this weekend iirc.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#554 - 2012-10-12 17:33:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:

2. When a corp or alliance is disbanded, all remaining bounties on it are returned to those who placed the bounties.

How much is returned in a case like this:

I place a 10 mil bounty on a corp. You place a 20 mil bounty on the same corp. 6 million is redeemed from the pool. Then the corp disbands.

Who gets how much back?

That's a good question actually.
I would assume everyone gets a proper percentage back depending on how much they contributed to the pool.

At the moment, 80% is returned from the contribution you made. It's last come, first-served. This means the people that most recently placed a bounty are paid their share first, and so on until the bounty pool is empty.

In your example, you would get back 6.4 Million. You were the first person to give them a bounty, they got killed because of it. So you paid the bounty hunter appropriately.

(Disclaimer on the 80%, nothing is yet finalized, hence the dev blog for feedback and discussion)

A small issue: I place a bounty on an entity. Then I wait. Nothing seems to be happening, no one is collecting my bounty. Well, it turns out that's not true. Bounties on that entity are being collected, just from a previous bounty setters. My offer is buried under previous bounty setters. I want retribution, but Im not seeing it!

If I place a bounty on someone and that someone dies, I want to know, even if none of my isk got paid out.


Exactly! If my name is in the bounty pool I want to at least have the option to be notified via mail, with a link to the kill mail.

This also ties into why if I place a bounty or sell a kill right I would like my name on the kill notification somewhere, preferably in a "This Kill sponsored by" field at the top. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#555 - 2012-10-12 17:36:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:

2. When a corp or alliance is disbanded, all remaining bounties on it are returned to those who placed the bounties.

How much is returned in a case like this:

I place a 10 mil bounty on a corp. You place a 20 mil bounty on the same corp. 6 million is redeemed from the pool. Then the corp disbands.

Who gets how much back?

That's a good question actually.
I would assume everyone gets a proper percentage back depending on how much they contributed to the pool.

At the moment, 80% is returned from the contribution you made. It's last come, first-served. This means the people that most recently placed a bounty are paid their share first, and so on until the bounty pool is empty.

In your example, you would get back 6.4 Million. You were the first person to give them a bounty, they got killed because of it. So you paid the bounty hunter appropriately.

(Disclaimer on the 80%, nothing is yet finalized, hence the dev blog for feedback and discussion)

A small issue: I place a bounty on an entity. Then I wait. Nothing seems to be happening, no one is collecting my bounty. Well, it turns out that's not true. Bounties on that entity are being collected, just from a previous bounty setters. My offer is buried under previous bounty setters. I want retribution, but Im not seeing it!

If I place a bounty on someone and that someone dies, I want to know, even if none of my isk got paid out.


Pay attention:

1.) Corp A has a bounty put on them by John (1rst), Jack (2nd), Jill (3rd), and Jane.... (100m each)....
2.) All bounties go into a bounty pool, so Corp A has 400m on their member's heads...
3.) I kill Pilot A (from Corp A) while he flies a 500m Cynabal. I get paid 100m bounty for this kill (20%).
4.) Corp A now has 300m bounty on all their member's heads.
5.) Corp A dispands... so the remaining 300m is returned.
6.) Jane gets 80 m back (80% of her 100 m), leaving 220m remaining.
7.) Jill gets 80m back (80% of 100m), leaving 140m remaining.
8.) Jack gets 80m back (80% of 100m), leaving 60m remaining.
9.) John gets the remaining 60m.

Pretend your Jill.. guess what, you paid me 20m to gank that cynabal.... thank you... So you did get retribution (the cynabal kill), and even payed part of the bounty!!!

Now, whether you get notified of the cynabal kill is another story..... you can monitor Corp A and see if their bounty decreases, and when it does you know you paid someone to kill one of their ships. You can monitor their killboard to see if what they lost and who killed them, but I don't think ccp is going to evemail you every lossmail they have.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#556 - 2012-10-12 17:36:32 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Kreed Ellecon wrote:
i would like to see a identification option added to overview setting so that i can see players with bounties on them/ buyable kill rights on them so that the hunting of these criminals is easier and quicker,, dont need to go thru 10 steps to find out if i can pop some outlaw passing thru my system




This is already in the overview, and visible in the selected item window too.

If I may, I believe some people don't realize what you mean when you say "selected items window".

It is the box at the top of your overview that contains commands (Orbit, approach, target, jump, etc.) specific to whatever you have selected on your overview. I believe there was a picture of what the kill rights icon looked like in it in the Dev Blog.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#557 - 2012-10-12 17:37:19 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Now how do you expect CCP to code in the "only if he wronged them" aspect of this?


Correct, which is why the proposed bounty system by CCP is flawed. It will give anyone the ability to put a bounty on anyone else. And that's why I am against it. And not just me, but others too.

Bounties are monitored by CONCORD. This organization only responds to criminal offenses in the form of active violent behavior. Contract scamming is part of EVE, but no criminal offense as such. I can agree with all the people in favor of this new system that these players should receive a bounty on their heads as well, but then this should be limited based on their PvP skills/actions. This means they (the contract scammers who will likely never leave the station anyway) can receive a bounty, but that it is only a small amount. Which is as it should be. CONCORD does not see these players as criminals.

A PvE player can receive a bounty, but it is capped. Once he starts to PvP however, the cap is increased dramatically to a point where the cap no longer exists. I think this would be a fair solution to both the players in favor of random bounties and those against it.

Oh and I still think that players within 30 days upon creation of their account should be immune to any bounties to properly protect them and to prevent griefing issues. We all want more people to play this game. Yet the ability to put a bounty on top of their heads would leave many newcomers clueless as they won't understand why they received it in the first place.
Aron Fox
Tranquillian Imperial Navy
#558 - 2012-10-12 17:39:41 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
Bounties. We all want to know more about how the upcoming iterations on them and how it will all work. CCP SoniClover from Team Super Friends explains the fundamental mechanics behind this upcoming (non-chocolate) bounty hunting system in this devblog.

Read it to bits here

As always, we want your constructive feedback and thoughts in the comments below.


Quote:
More selective kill right selling – this is similar to the one above, only for kill rights instead of bounties. This basically allows the owner of the kill right to select more carefully who can purchase the kill right.


Have you guys allready figured out how this would work or are you interested in a suggestion in how it could work?

in case you havent, perhaps killrights selling could maybe work the same way as location bookmarks. that you can drag and drop it into a container then set up a contract containing the killright as an item.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#559 - 2012-10-12 17:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
Now, whether you get notified of the cynabal kill is another story..... you can monitor Corp A and see if their bounty decreases, and when it does you know you paid someone to kill one of their ships. You can monitor their killboard to see if what they lost and who killed them, but I don't think ccp is going to evemail you every lossmail they have.


You could have a point there, they are trying to cut down on EVE mail spam (as they did with the new kill notification system). However I would still like a notification sent somehow. Either to the kills/losses section of my character sheet, or even a pop up in the corner that could be clicked on, like a convo request. Heck, even a notification in a section on EVE Gate would be okay.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#560 - 2012-10-12 17:45:34 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:


On one side it's a nerf against all the cowards,
on the other side nobody seems to think of the noobs.

Noobs are totally discouraged to steal cans to make money,
but instead get pushed into carebear activities.



This is a very interesting perspective. However I think having a reasonably safe place for noobs is important. There is a huge learning curve in this game and I think often vets forget about that. Many new players come into this game and wind up victims of game mechanics that there is no way they can be expected to fully understand. further they have no recourse currently or I should say nothing that they can do given their current understanding and in some cases skills to bring a sense of active participation to the situation.

The bounty system and transferable kill rights goes a long way to change that. At least now you can earn enough isk to pay someone to handle a situation that you have no way of handling yourself given your current skills and knowledge of the game.

I like the progression of PvP into low and null sec. I think luring people into low sec and null with increased incentives is a much better way to encourage that progression than forcing people into it in high sec.

You have to understand very few people enjoy feeling like a powerless victim. If we insist on maintaining a game mechanic that provides easy prey for the few that like to enforce their will on the powerless then we will continue to have a very high washout rate in this game.

I fail to see how discouraging noobs from stealing cans to make isk in high sec is a bad thing? Would it not be better to incentivize more people to mission in low and null so that players that would previously can flip in high sec would now hunt missioners?

What I think many people are failing to see is that gankers, griefers and can flippers benefit more from concord protection than anyone else. The risk reward thing needs to work on both ends of the scale. So instead of bringing more victimization to high sec why not bring more carebears to low/null ?

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