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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2012-10-12 10:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?

Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.

You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you?

The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone.

So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession?

Also, don't forget that if someone does kill him and tries to profit off of it by scooping his modules, he in turn becomes killable by everyone because he's now a suspect.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#202 - 2012-10-12 10:07:23 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

It's not a fight when you have a suspect flag. Let me know how many kills you get in Jita while being a suspect.



Are you saying that you lose every fight where you get shot first ?


Damb, son! That's gonna leave a mark...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#203 - 2012-10-12 10:08:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?

Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.

You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you?

The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone.

So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession?

Also, don't forget that if someone does kill him and tries to profit off of it by scooping his modules, he in turn becomes killable by everyone because he's now a suspect.


Sounds like fun times, to be honest. Empire is going to be a slaughterhouse.

My advice is to buy minerals.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#204 - 2012-10-12 10:15:37 UTC
Hey is mittens going to do another occupy Jita event to mark this change? That would be keen!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#205 - 2012-10-12 10:29:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.

Do you really think I will suicide-gank someone one day, and then undock a faction-fit Vindicator to "have some of them fun-funz peeveepees" with everyone in Jita the next? No, it simply won't work like that. You might think it's honorable for a pvper to go around seeking 1vs200 engagements, but we think it's stupid.



Aye.

But I don't see this changes as direct against or affecting to much suicide ganking, if the wanted to totally get rid of suicide ganking they had only to buff again some ships tanks, cheapper than implementing a whole set of game mechanics.

This change to me seems more affecting "low rank" high-sec piracy (can flipping, stealing, ninja looting and so on), is there that will create more pvp opportunities. I don't see how giving to people more opportunities to shoot equals to "safeer"

Suicide ganking is different: it requires some effort, skills, coordination, sacrificing ships and has already a risks/benefits challange in it. But, as stated: is done mostly using alts, is easy to get rid of the kill rights and so on, so will not be cleared by this changes.

About this I think if this new system works the next step should be to lower the Concord reaction times, to balance.
Pipa Porto
#206 - 2012-10-12 10:31:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?

Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.

You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you?

The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone.

So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession?

Also, don't forget that if someone does kill him and tries to profit off of it by scooping his modules, he in turn becomes killable by everyone because he's now a suspect.


You forgot that clever little line Masterplan slipped in where if you were legally allowed to shoot someone, you're legally allowed to loot their can.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#207 - 2012-10-12 10:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Shederov Blood
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.
Don't forget, those newbies will probably have new "green-level safeties" on by default, and won't even be capable of gaining a suspect flag until they disable it.

Edit: Unless of course you go flying through the starter systems waving your suspect flag in their faces. How could I forget about that. P

Who put the goat in there?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#208 - 2012-10-12 10:37:38 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.
Don't forget, those newbies will probably have new "green-level safeties" on by default, and won't even be capable of gaining a suspect flag until they disable it.

Edit: Unless of course you go flying through the starter systems waving your suspect flag in their faces. How could I forget about that. P

I might not be the gold standard, but I have a silver tongue.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#209 - 2012-10-12 10:49:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
I mean let's face it, CCP's vision of hisec is that of a risk-free pseudo-themepark where things like 'thought' are optional. All PvP is restricted to wardecs (which are heavily nerfed), risk-free suspect hunting and RvB. By "hisec should be fairly safe" that means that you should be perfectly safe autopiloting your freighter with 50b of loot or your officer-fit Nightmare through Jita.

They believe that by restricting PvP even more, subscriptions will magically skyrocket and EVE will enter a golden age. We'll see about that (it won't)


qft
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#210 - 2012-10-12 11:12:20 UTC
Why are you people so afraid of everything?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2012-10-12 11:14:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sounds like fun times, to be honest. Empire is going to be a slaughterhouse.

My advice is to buy minerals.

So you're thinking these changes will actually be beneficial to bounty hunters?

If so, then I guess this is one of the first times we've actually disagreed about a change. There's always a first for everything, I guess. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#212 - 2012-10-12 11:17:40 UTC
dethleffs wrote:
Why are you people so afraid of everything?

The only thing I fear is a game I love turning into veritable detritus.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Naburi NasNaburi
Doomheim
#213 - 2012-10-12 11:32:08 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .


From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#214 - 2012-10-12 11:34:08 UTC
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .


From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ?

But you can buy them as many times as you want until a kill is actually made.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#215 - 2012-10-12 11:36:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .


From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ?

But you can buy them as many times as you want until a kill is actually made.


There you have a new buissnes model and Scam opportunity
LolLol

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#216 - 2012-10-12 11:41:44 UTC
I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played.

To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?

No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#217 - 2012-10-12 11:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Jint Hikaru wrote:
I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played.

To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?

No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this.

You seem to be under the misconception that just because I view a change as nonsensical and inherently bad for the game, I won't use it to completely ruin the EVE experience of another couple hundred players via completely legitimate, sanctioned game mechanics.

And to answer your question, no, it's nothing like suicide ganking. If the kill right activator immediately loses his ship to CONCORD the second he activates the kill right, then it might be like suicide-ganking. If the kill right activator is the only one able to act on the kill right after activating it, then it might be like suicide-ganking.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#218 - 2012-10-12 11:47:55 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played.

To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?

No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this.

you clearly have no idea at all about what you are talking

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2012-10-12 11:54:03 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?

Actually, it's the hope of being a full-time bountyhunter going up in smoke.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#220 - 2012-10-12 12:16:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?

Actually, it's the hope of being a full-time bountyhunter going up in smoke.

This, especially this. We've been waiting for transferable kill rights for so long, and CCP decides to slap us in the face with an Oprah approach to bounty-hunting. Apparently they want everyone to be a bounty-hunter. Must look good on their promotional materials.

Bounty-hunters have risk. Bounty-hunters do work for money, not pay money for work. Bounty-hunters don't want random people interfering in their work. Apparently CCP passed right over those concepts and went straight for making it as close to a pve experience as possible.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted