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The Silk Road (Revised)

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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#41 - 2012-10-06 00:00:35 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Scams come and go, the same as the scamers.

This is EvE, we invented scamming, reinvented it and every one comes here thinking they have something new to bring.

Im sorry for being so tough on you, but this is what your doing, you are trying to scam newish pilots out of their ISK.


Maybe you could say that if I asked for a bunch of money up front. I want to work with people in order to make profits for us all. Why would I scam with my character? Then what can an industrialist do? The point of the game for industrialists/market people is to play the game. What good is a pile of ISK if you can't use it for anything?

Cap James Tkirk wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
Scams come and go, the same as the scamers.

This is EvE, we invented scamming, reinvented it and every one comes here thinking they have something new to bring.

Im sorry for being so tough on you, but this is what your doing, you are trying to scam newish pilots out of their ISK.



Guess im not the only one calling the BS of the idea Cool


Ok but nobody has shown how this is the case in any way. People can work with me for a few months and see for themselves if its legit. Or they can listen to some guy and his alt on the forums.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
Great Black Hole of Eve
#42 - 2012-10-07 05:49:57 UTC
I fail to see what you are providing service wise for the price you are charging.

It currently seems you do not have a group of people within this channel right now, so basically anyone buying in is supporting you while you attempt to build up the network?

The discussion of then building a group to work massive deals out with (I was getting the impression you were talking more about setting up larger scale manipulations then just bulk trades) seems to be difficult since to get within your group all you need is some isk without references. From what I have read people happily build up trust for a few months to pull a scam.

I am sorry if you are being serious, but without it being an exclusive group to begin with it seems ripe for manipulation within the group itself.

Beyond not seeing any substantial value currently, your model of allowing in anyone with a little isk to toss around seems to invite fraud in itself.

Pirate
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-10-07 07:15:09 UTC
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– postum faex est – 

never forget
Castor II
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-10-07 19:28:51 UTC
Man this is false advertisement Lol
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#45 - 2012-10-07 20:26:03 UTC
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk wrote:
I fail to see what you are providing service wise for the price you are charging.

It currently seems you do not have a group of people within this channel right now, so basically anyone buying in is supporting you while you attempt to build up the network?

The discussion of then building a group to work massive deals out with (I was getting the impression you were talking more about setting up larger scale manipulations then just bulk trades) seems to be difficult since to get within your group all you need is some isk without references. From what I have read people happily build up trust for a few months to pull a scam.

I am sorry if you are being serious, but without it being an exclusive group to begin with it seems ripe for manipulation within the group itself.

Beyond not seeing any substantial value currently, your model of allowing in anyone with a little isk to toss around seems to invite fraud in itself.

Pirate


The service provided is networking with an intended goal across political boundaries. There is no service until people actually show up and work together. You can't just hang up the grape vine and pour wine for yourself.

So now the argument is that my fee is too small and anyone can join and scam. Before my fee was too big and therefore a scam as well. Doesn't seem like either way we put this up works for anyone. Come to think of it, do ANYTHING in Eve and you can figure out a way that it's a scam...or really anything else in life.

if I make the group too exclusive it's "omg u r tryin to be supersecret eleet trade lulz" if too many people can join "omg scammurz paradise."


I'm just wondering, if you are to join the channel and be part of this group, how exactly do you scam people? Spam "buy my 399 mil plex" contracts? That wouldn't work.

Honestly, if anybody thinks "i'll get people in this channel and scam them" is a good idea, you're pretty daft.




========================================


OP has been revised to allow the channel to be open and free until the concept grows. Anyone can join but be careful who you work with. I will provide as much moderation as I can.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Cipio Hakoke
Tactical Manufacturing Group
#46 - 2012-10-08 15:15:45 UTC
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
Well with the reliable accusations of the venerable goonswarm clearly proving my faults, how could I ever possibly go on. Blink



How do you expect to moderate a channel where politics are not an issue when you insist on bringing them up yourself?
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#47 - 2012-10-08 16:29:54 UTC
Cipio Hakoke wrote:
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
Well with the reliable accusations of the venerable goonswarm clearly proving my faults, how could I ever possibly go on. Blink



How do you expect to moderate a channel where politics are not an issue when you insist on bringing them up yourself?



No politics means our goal is to control markets and make profits beyond the issue of politics. It doesn't mean be an idiot.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
Great Black Hole of Eve
#48 - 2012-10-08 17:17:00 UTC
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk wrote:
I fail to see what you are providing service wise for the price you are charging.

It currently seems you do not have a group of people within this channel right now, so basically anyone buying in is supporting you while you attempt to build up the network?

The discussion of then building a group to work massive deals out with (I was getting the impression you were talking more about setting up larger scale manipulations then just bulk trades) seems to be difficult since to get within your group all you need is some isk without references. From what I have read people happily build up trust for a few months to pull a scam.

I am sorry if you are being serious, but without it being an exclusive group to begin with it seems ripe for manipulation within the group itself.

Beyond not seeing any substantial value currently, your model of allowing in anyone with a little isk to toss around seems to invite fraud in itself.

Pirate


The service provided is networking with an intended goal across political boundaries. There is no service until people actually show up and work together. You can't just hang up the grape vine and pour wine for yourself.

So now the argument is that my fee is too small and anyone can join and scam. Before my fee was too big and therefore a scam as well. Doesn't seem like either way we put this up works for anyone. Come to think of it, do ANYTHING in Eve and you can figure out a way that it's a scam...or really anything else in life.

if I make the group too exclusive it's "omg u r tryin to be supersecret eleet trade lulz" if too many people can join "omg scammurz paradise."


I'm just wondering, if you are to join the channel and be part of this group, how exactly do you scam people? Spam "buy my 399 mil plex" contracts? That wouldn't work.

Honestly, if anybody thinks "i'll get people in this channel and scam them" is a good idea, you're pretty daft.




========================================


OP has been revised to allow the channel to be open and free until the concept grows. Anyone can join but be careful who you work with. I will provide as much moderation as I can.



I must have been unclear:

1. It is not the price you charge, any amount would not matter. It is your lack of vetting before you allow people to join. If any service is worth the price people will pay it.

2. Scamming is not just Spam "buy my 399 mil plex" contract as you state. I also did not accuse you of scamming so grow up and show your maturity you speak of.

A very simple scam is since your entire group would be unknown to each other, and lets say they do trust one another enough to work together, one of them could make an alt and trade against the fix, use inside trading knowledge so to say.

3. Your final statement "Honestly, if anybody thinks "i'll get people in this channel and scam them" is a good idea, you're pretty daft. " Shows that you do not understand the whole ability to scam within the game and the prevalence outside of just the Jita spamming.

I am sorry you are so insulted that I point out legitimate flaws with your model. If all you are doing is providing a moderated channel then I do think the price tag is too high. If you were in fact running a legitimate group of high end traders fixing markets all over in unison then you could charge even more if you, in fact, helped the people make more then what they would have without your service plus your fee.

Is that a little clearer? I hope that is fair enough and not cause you undo anger this time.
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#49 - 2012-10-08 21:11:44 UTC
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk wrote:
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk wrote:
I fail to see what you are providing service wise for the price you are charging.

It currently seems you do not have a group of people within this channel right now, so basically anyone buying in is supporting you while you attempt to build up the network?

The discussion of then building a group to work massive deals out with (I was getting the impression you were talking more about setting up larger scale manipulations then just bulk trades) seems to be difficult since to get within your group all you need is some isk without references. From what I have read people happily build up trust for a few months to pull a scam.

I am sorry if you are being serious, but without it being an exclusive group to begin with it seems ripe for manipulation within the group itself.

Beyond not seeing any substantial value currently, your model of allowing in anyone with a little isk to toss around seems to invite fraud in itself.

Pirate


The service provided is networking with an intended goal across political boundaries. There is no service until people actually show up and work together. You can't just hang up the grape vine and pour wine for yourself.

So now the argument is that my fee is too small and anyone can join and scam. Before my fee was too big and therefore a scam as well. Doesn't seem like either way we put this up works for anyone. Come to think of it, do ANYTHING in Eve and you can figure out a way that it's a scam...or really anything else in life.

if I make the group too exclusive it's "omg u r tryin to be supersecret eleet trade lulz" if too many people can join "omg scammurz paradise."


I'm just wondering, if you are to join the channel and be part of this group, how exactly do you scam people? Spam "buy my 399 mil plex" contracts? That wouldn't work.

Honestly, if anybody thinks "i'll get people in this channel and scam them" is a good idea, you're pretty daft.




========================================


OP has been revised to allow the channel to be open and free until the concept grows. Anyone can join but be careful who you work with. I will provide as much moderation as I can.



I must have been unclear:

1. It is not the price you charge, any amount would not matter. It is your lack of vetting before you allow people to join. If any service is worth the price people will pay it.

2. Scamming is not just Spam "buy my 399 mil plex" contract as you state. I also did not accuse you of scamming so grow up and show your maturity you speak of.

A very simple scam is since your entire group would be unknown to each other, and lets say they do trust one another enough to work together, one of them could make an alt and trade against the fix, use inside trading knowledge so to say.

3. Your final statement "Honestly, if anybody thinks "i'll get people in this channel and scam them" is a good idea, you're pretty daft. " Shows that you do not understand the whole ability to scam within the game and the prevalence outside of just the Jita spamming.

I am sorry you are so insulted that I point out legitimate flaws with your model. If all you are doing is providing a moderated channel then I do think the price tag is too high. If you were in fact running a legitimate group of high end traders fixing markets all over in unison then you could charge even more if you, in fact, helped the people make more then what they would have without your service plus your fee.

Is that a little clearer? I hope that is fair enough and not cause you undo anger this time.


1. There of course will be vetting. Nobody said "pay X get in." The idea is that initially we need a small pool of people to work together. How can I vet people if no one is in?

2. I understand that but there are risks in everything you attempt to do. You win some you lose some. This isn't some clear cut and dry concept people can just stroll in and profit off of it. This is something to work on. This is the sort of mentality that makes it difficult to start corporations from scratch too.

3. I do understand there are more scams and i'm not getting insulted at pointing out legitimate flaws, when they are legitimate. But at this point it feels like i'm debating boxing with a kid. "Oh no that punch is no good, because then i'd just dodge like this and punch you." No matter what is said there's always SOME supposed counter yet we never really know what happens because nothing is ever tried out.

Nobody is angry here. I'm hoping that I explained somethings and solved some unnecessary confusion.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-10-08 22:10:57 UTC
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#51 - 2012-10-10 19:35:36 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
http://xkcd.com/1060/



Accurate...except that part where there wouldn't be any involvement.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Tesal
#52 - 2012-10-11 03:12:49 UTC
The OP is acting brain dead when it comes to answering criticism.

This idea is pretty daft as there are already channels you can go to for free that provide the same benefits. So why pay for it?

Also, making a free channel has the benefit of making you one of the big players on it. So why charge for it when you get the exact same benefit as the people in the channel?

If the value is in making a like minded team of people, charging 100m seems like a sure fire way to fail.
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Silvana Innovations
Fraternity.
#53 - 2012-10-11 17:05:26 UTC
Tesal wrote:
The OP is acting brain dead when it comes to answering criticism.

This idea is pretty daft as there are already channels you can go to for free that provide the same benefits. So why pay for it?

Also, making a free channel has the benefit of making you one of the big players on it. So why charge for it when you get the exact same benefit as the people in the channel?

If the value is in making a like minded team of people, charging 100m seems like a sure fire way to fail.


Reading comprehension should be a requirement to post...

The idea of 100 mil charge is to keep little crap wanna be scammers from annoying us. The charge is small enough that any semi-established mercantile entity will hardly feel it. The idea is that you get people to do business who are in the business of doing business. Not wanna be scammers and lazy upstarts. You have to show and provide how you will be of use to the group.

[SERSY] Mercantile/Industrial/Capitalist Alliance Recruiting Corps
Hans Downherpantz
Oblivion Watch
HYDRA RELOADED
#54 - 2012-10-12 11:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Downherpantz
While I find it fantastic that you have gone out to try and make isk in a slightly new and interesting way, you may find that you have some rather colossal issues with your entire plan.

Firstly: Who would pay you 100m for such a channel, when you have no contacts yourself to benefit the traders? Furthermore channels such as Legit Trade already exist for free with all the moderation, rules and some big dogs in there. Not to mention the public channels which are free and pretty much player moderated, as well as free.
You offer nothing good for the 100m, except you get a little richer from incompetent noobs who do no know better.

Secondly: Your defence of your idea on this post has been farcical. Valid points and criticisms, when put to you, are met with the same repeated responses as if you are oblivious to the flaws they are pointing out.

And in reply to above again, all the large traders are already in contact with eachother...thats called trading.....why would they all pay you ( a stranger) 100m to put them all in a channel, when we are perfectly capable, and have done, this ourselves?

Cheers
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