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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#601 - 2012-10-12 09:16:05 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Battlingbean wrote:
The real question we should all be asking is why does skills have a Focused medium Pulse Laser I on his Raven?
skills is just clueless and does whatever... for example he loses avatars to noobs
Video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HrNu0WdUJg&t=1m10s

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#602 - 2012-10-12 09:26:36 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Palovana wrote:
CCP Masheen wrote:
mkint wrote:
What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?
Good question!

Short answer: in Retribution we're not changing the overview.
Does this also mean that there will be no way in the Overview to see who has specific (suspect, criminal, etc) flags?
There is actually another team working on that... and I think they are planning on showing that.
For information on Crimewatch please read this devblog http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73443 from CCP Masterplan and kindly post your questions and comments in the feedback thread for that devblog.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Herren Varno
Steel Dust Heavy Industries
#603 - 2012-10-12 09:52:37 UTC
In every one of my thousand plus engagements, I've never once had an issue keeping track of an opponent's HP. The three stacked bars are perfectly intelligible and intuitive. The circular bars as they currently stand add a lot of ambiguity and would lead to misinterpretation. Even with tweaking I really can't see how it would ever be as intuitive. This is a backwards step for usability that adds precisely nothing and really needs to be reconsidered.

[I haven't read through the whole thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what's already been said, or if you've already seen sense!]
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#604 - 2012-10-12 10:23:03 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.
wow, really?
I think when people said the target icons are larger, and you dismissed it saying they're not that much larger that it shows the same kind of thing as with the module icon windows. We also complained those were too large, and you didn't think so, and all iteration on the feature has gone silent. Icons and window borders keep getting bigger with each new feature, without any way for the players to adjust it, because you guys know best.

Nearly every other MMO allows the players to customize the UI, because only the players know how they want it to look to themselves, but EVE says no, you're doing it wrong, and you have to do it the way we say to do it. That is the feeling I tend to get with the feedback on each feature. You'll tweak it as long as it works with what you wanted to do anyways, but if it's outside the scope of the work you want to do, then it's not going to happen.
Yah this is unfortunately quite common with CCP.

I have repeatedly highlighted every recent UI change for how everything just increases in size. At one point I asked Punkturis straight out if she's blind as a bat, and I even said the very least they can do is to give players the option to customize, as that is never a bad option. She was at least honest in her reply, stating she disagrees, and that more options is bad.

But frankly, in this case, those circular icons looked to be smaller to me, not bigger? I could be wrong, as others pointed out, the pictures doesn't really show. Either case, I completely agree with you, CCP should stop making everything so damn big, and they should really re-consider their stance that customizeable is bad.
CCP karkur already replied to a good portion of this here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2030910#post2030910

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#605 - 2012-10-12 10:30:59 UTC
Cerulean Ice wrote:
IDEA! Why not change the full circle hp bars into a 3/4 circle hp bar, with the bottom quarter empty. It could then mirror the capacitor HUD and have shields right, slowly decreasing up and around to the left as it transitions into armor then hull. It would match the current HUD in concept, still retain the cool circle, and nobody would be confused anymore.

I'd draw a picture to help, but making you all gouge out your eyes isn't going to improve this feature much.

CCP Prism X wrote:
Cerulean Ice wrote:
CCP Prism X gets it.
Dude I'm trolling.
Roll

We really need a [sarcasm] tag for the forums. It would prevent so many misunderstandings.
Just assume CCP Prism X == ~sarcasm~. It simplifies life a lot.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#606 - 2012-10-12 10:35:18 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Then how about a daily DEV summary of the issues and suggestions you have recognized? Tell people up front you are going to do that. Then all they have to do is blue tag jump through Dev posts and they will be caught up on what you've acknowledged. I had to scroll through 10 pages before I found that you acknowledged that performance degradation is a recognized risk.
This is actually a pretty nifty idea (except for the devs who have to write a lot… P).

It doesn't have to be daily, exactly, but some kind of consolidation update every now and then on what feedback has struck a note and if there's some common point of confusion that should be highlighted and cleared up once and for all.
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#607 - 2012-10-12 10:49:01 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Just assume CCP Prism X == ~sarcasm~. It simplifies life a lot.


Hey I don't give out cheat codes for you, stop giving them cheat codes for me!

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies
#608 - 2012-10-12 11:03:05 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Bubanni wrote:

Well, it's not useless information either :)


maybe not for you Bubanni, but most people in eve dont go around in slowcat carrier groups or have configured carriers on hotdrops to allow on the fly module switching.

itd be a very niche thing for a very select group of people, people who should be able to tell by damage notifications if someones hitting their resist hole or having their shots be pinged off their highest effective tank profile.



Well, lets say you have a setup with three active hardeners. Being able to see what type of damage type is incoming allows you to make the decision to overload one hardener that will be hardening against the most abundant incoming damage type.

Granted this won't help older and more experienced players as much because they will usually be able to guess correctly based on the scenario or shiptype they are fighting against what damage type will be most abundant.
Holy One
Privat Party
#609 - 2012-10-12 11:29:50 UTC
Harder to read, introduces even more pixel consuming excessive ui clutter and reduces information available. The view from the top will necessitate squinting at circles trying to guess which bar is which and whats moving. All while trying to do 50 other things. Do not want.

:)
Gun Gun
Ronin Cartel
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#610 - 2012-10-12 11:49:29 UTC
It all looks alright but I would like to know what is the logic behind switching to circular damage bars on locked targets. To me it seems counter intuitive as our own ship's health is represented by 3 (curved) bars one bellow the other.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#611 - 2012-10-12 11:53:18 UTC
just a quick question... as much as i like a fresher new snazzy looking overview.. theres some issues with overviews under the bonnet, is there any plans to get out the wrenches and go to town on those at some point in the near future?

kthanksbye!
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#612 - 2012-10-12 11:57:07 UTC
Going to jump on the "don't like the summary circles" bandwagon.

The current "locked target summary" UI is pretty good. Square boxes line up nicely, and most of the important information is in a band underneath each icon. My main criticisms currently are that the "active weapons" icons can get pretty small once you have three or more, that the icons sometimes move about when I'm trying to interact with them, and that the "targeted ship" and the "active on overview" ship sometimes are not the same thing. None of these issues will be dealt with by circular icons.

In contrast, the circular icons spread out the information in a less obvious manner, and also the "active area" of a square box (for clicking, dragging, etc) is a lot more obvious that a circular box when dealing with a 2-D pointing device.

The rest looks pretty good. For status on ships in the main window (vs the summary), other options include three little bars to one side, or stacked underneath as they are on the summary.

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?
Siduru
Unexpected Accident
#613 - 2012-10-12 12:07:53 UTC
i got only one question.

It will be possible to turn it off ?
Oovarvu
C.O.L.D.
#614 - 2012-10-12 12:20:08 UTC
just want to have my twopennyworth,

shields on the left, armor on the right, structure at the bottom with the damage bar starting from the left

ship type at the top and range and speed underneath

with speed underneath its one less thing cluttering up the overview.

just an idea.
Oberine Noriepa
#615 - 2012-10-12 12:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
Ranger 1 wrote:
The truth is, it would make you view of a battle look a heck of a lot more like the sci fi looking readouts we see in the trailers (the current ideas help a lot in this regard already).

Improvements are paramount in a feature like this. I do hope that the new HUD ends up looking cool, however. The HUD and UI are both in need of a face lift. Personally, I thought that the Fanfest UI was very sci-fi looking. Hopefully it isn't forgotten.

∃
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#616 - 2012-10-12 14:40:38 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
I wish not all practicality was sacrificed on altar of "looking pretty".




for goddamn truth.


its nice that its shiny

but does it work?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#617 - 2012-10-12 15:18:12 UTC
LOVING the idea of more visual info during combat - Very nice!!

CCP karkur wrote:
[quote=Karl Planck]Going to repost this as I do not think the devs are looking at the first couple of posts.

I like the idea behind this, as reading things can be difficult. However, can we make it more useful by having the opacity be a reflection as to how well they are hitting us instead of their damage/our HP? For instance: damage inflicted by enemy/maximum possible damage possible? Damage relative to HP isn’t all too helpful because your ship’s health is a very VERY easy stat to keep track of. However, having a visual que to knowing that you are under the guns of your opponent or that you have flown out of somone’s optimal would be VERY helpful (as opposed to having those numbers memorized Oops).

We want to display who is seriously hurting you and threatening your life... and if I'm shooting at you with my Civilian gun and getting some AMAZING hits in (for me), it wouldn't make much sense that I was flashing bright red, while the guy that is dealing 20x my damage is just blinking faintly because he can do a lot better, would it?
(the current damage messages actually categorize the hits based on the ability of the module)
/quote]

Make this a checkbox in the settings and let us pick. I can think of times I'd want it both ways.

- Or - Do both...

Make the red brightness/opacity reflect the damage in relation to the shooter's potential, and make the size of the circle burst relative to your ship's HP.

Big circles - Big incoming damage.
Bright Red circles - They're doing their max damage.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#618 - 2012-10-12 15:26:31 UTC
Oovarvu wrote:
just want to have my twopennyworth,

shields on the left, armor on the right, structure at the bottom with the damage bar starting from the left

ship type at the top and range and speed underneath

with speed underneath its one less thing cluttering up the overview.

just an idea.


+2 pennies, I'll live without range & speed (angular/transversal go hand in hand with those two) but yeah, why not if it doesn't clutter things too much.

But most importantly, that arrangement of the tank displays is the most logical one.



.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#619 - 2012-10-12 15:36:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Utremi Fasolasi
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:

I approve. Circles are far more futuristic then squares. Squares are dead, long live circles!


I think EVE needs more hexagons.

edit: I was sort of joking at first but after I hit Send.. it comes to me that hexagons are pretty awesome and futuristic aesthetically and have a little more space around them than a circle or a square for additional info to fit, like speed or transversal velocity.

I don't mind the clocklike display of HP though through the three layers, I think once its on the test server folks will get used to it quickly.
Luka Datitties
Star-Gate Command
#620 - 2012-10-12 15:37:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Then how about a daily DEV summary of the issues and suggestions you have recognized? Tell people up front you are going to do that. Then all they have to do is blue tag jump through Dev posts and they will be caught up on what you've acknowledged. I had to scroll through 10 pages before I found that you acknowledged that performance degradation is a recognized risk.
This is actually a pretty nifty idea (except for the devs who have to write a lot… P).

It doesn't have to be daily, exactly, but some kind of consolidation update every now and then on what feedback has struck a note and if there's some common point of confusion that should be highlighted and cleared up once and for all.


The Dev who starts the thread should just edit the first post with the ideas that have already been addressed, ideas that are being considered, updates to current line of thinking etc... so that people don't have to filter through 50+ pages of posts to make sure they are contributing something new to the thread. Perhaps these updates could even have links to where the idea was posted on whichever page?