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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#141 - 2012-10-12 04:11:50 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back.

No, the penalties are front-loaded. As soon as you gain a criminal flag you grant kill rights.

That's what I was afriad of, then.

This is pretty terrible.

High-sec players have no business "dispensing justice" for PVP they want nothing to do with in low-sec.

Broken.


As it is now a criminal aggression only gets you a 15 minute timer. It takes kill rights to get a 30 day timer.

Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Or is CCP going to have different levels of Kill rights?

Some 15 minute timers and some 30 day timers? I suppose this is something not yet set in stone and subject to change.

Let's hope so.

This does not look like a conflict driver to me...

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#142 - 2012-10-12 04:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Or is CCP going to have different levels of Kill rights?

ALL penalties are front-loaded under the new system. Criminal flags generate kill rights (E: and sec status loss) whether the action was sucessful or not.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#143 - 2012-10-12 04:15:33 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right?

Yes, this is how they plan to implement it. The only way to change their minds is with a negative feedback campaign. They won't change their minds otherwise.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#144 - 2012-10-12 04:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?


That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic]

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#145 - 2012-10-12 04:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Cipher Jones wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?


That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic]

So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form?

On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#146 - 2012-10-12 04:23:57 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?


That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic]

So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form?

On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here.


Now, here's a scenario that will be possible under the new system. You get one tackler on a guy with kill rights on him and he will LITERALLY be Mackinaw bait.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#147 - 2012-10-12 04:25:27 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?


That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic]

So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form?

On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here.


Now, here's a scenario that will be possible under the new system. You get one tackler on a guy with kill rights on him and he will LITERALLY be Mackinaw bait.


I've got to admit I laughed out loud. Lol

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Olleybear
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#148 - 2012-10-12 04:34:14 UTC
Almost everything in the dev blog sounds good so far. The one thing that does raise an eyebrow however, is what others have brought up, and that is the Suspect Toggle.

Giving people more options on their kill rights is a good thing. A simple toggle so everyone can free fire on someone for 15 minutes? Not so sure about that one. Think we would need more information on what CCPs goal is for this particular mechanic. Perhaps its to encourage people to stay out in Low? Shrug. Dunno.

Good dev blog and looking forward to the rest of the changes.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
#149 - 2012-10-12 04:35:42 UTC
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#150 - 2012-10-12 04:40:17 UTC
SegaPhoenix wrote:
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P

Well I just hope that suspect flag doesn't go off in a rookie zone.

Talk about griefing! Shoot them and risk a ban or take their fire and risk a petition?

Or what about the low-sec front-loading? Letting high-sec players shoot low-sec players in high-sec just for their playstyle would be...the height of hypocrisy to be utterly blunt.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#151 - 2012-10-12 04:48:12 UTC
SegaPhoenix wrote:
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P

I guarantee you without a doubt that aside from some small exceptions, the people going after the suspects will be much more prepared.

This might work in sparsely-populated systems, but because of exactly this those systems will soon be deserted. This patch will encourage the bears to move to hubs in bigger numbers because of the protection they'd get there.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#152 - 2012-10-12 04:57:37 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
SegaPhoenix wrote:
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P

I guarantee you without a doubt that aside from some small exceptions, the people going after the suspects will be much more prepared.

This might work in sparsely-populated systems, but because of exactly this those systems will soon be deserted. This patch will encourage the bears to move to hubs in bigger numbers because of the protection they'd get there.

In youth soccer (football in Europe), they call it "clumping."

It's typically seen prevalently only in the very youngest leagues. We're talking like 8 and under.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#153 - 2012-10-12 05:01:48 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
SegaPhoenix wrote:
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P

I guarantee you without a doubt that aside from some small exceptions, the people going after the suspects will be much more prepared.

This might work in sparsely-populated systems, but because of exactly this those systems will soon be deserted. This patch will encourage the bears to move to hubs in bigger numbers because of the protection they'd get there.

In youth soccer (football in Europe), they call it "clumping."

It's typically seen prevalently only in the very youngest leagues. We're talking like 8 and under.

CCP's new target demographic?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#154 - 2012-10-12 05:12:22 UTC
It is hilarious...we will kill so many high sec refugees that we will have to call them "much" refugees...
Nerf high sec to buff low sec...OR
breake one to let the other one look OK

LolLolLolLol

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#155 - 2012-10-12 05:12:41 UTC
After quick read of thread and devblogs....

My personal view, its better then current system.

Sounds to me like most vocal complainers about this iteration are people that suddenly find themself being on receving end of punishment. Most likely people that do suicide ganks.

Behave like civilized person and you have nothing to worry about, be bad person and you deserve it. Highsec is not supposed to be safe for bad people.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-10-12 05:13:39 UTC
Dasola wrote:
After quick read of thread and devblogs....

My personal view, its better then current system.

Sounds to me like most vocal complainers about this iteration are people that suddenly find themself being on receving end of punishment. Most likely people that do suicide ganks.

Behave like civilized person and you have nothing to worry about, be bad person and you deserve it. Highsec is not supposed to be safe for bad people.


Okay, person from Rookie Empire Citizens.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#157 - 2012-10-12 05:35:32 UTC
I love how joining a corp at war while in space to get the ability to shoot someone without warning was an exploit but now making someone shootable by everyone without warning is now intended game design.

Bravo, CCP. Really well thought out. A shining example of your quality and consistency.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#158 - 2012-10-12 05:55:20 UTC
I'm not into attacking people, so I'll just give him a more or less objective answer:

Insurance payouts when CONCORD is involved were removed after a pretty hefty campaign by carebears during a regular anti-barge campaign in-game. It was CCP's direct response to the "problem."

We (gankers, pvpers) weren't against the nerf per se, but we cautioned CCP that passing a nerf like that would set a precedent for other anti-gank and anti-pvp changes to follow.

We were right.

Not too long after the insurance nerf, CONCORD was readjusted. Furthermore, we just recently got massive barge buffs. Now, Crimewatch 2.0

This is not to say that the insurance nerf was the first anti-gank nerf. Prior to that, the game saw the introduction of CONCORD, and its subsequent buffing, which happened three times. Furthermore, security status losses were buffed, and gains were nerfed at least twice, though they apparently did retract one of those nerfs.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#159 - 2012-10-12 06:04:02 UTC
The never ending debate between the Elite players and Normal people with lives (IE Carebears)

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-10-12 06:05:33 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
The never ending debate between the Elite players and Normal people with lives (IE Carebears)

I think you got that backwards.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)