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Specific Examples of Where Risk Should Be Inserted Successfully Into High-sec

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#441 - 2012-10-11 19:24:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:



Show me where CCP says this is a PVP ONLY game.


EVE has always been advertised as a PVP game. Everything involves it.

Notice that his argument at this point can be entirely distilled to an attack against a specific playstyle. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
KillerPriest
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#442 - 2012-10-11 19:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
La Nariz wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:
No.

Leave the care bears alone.

Stop trying to FORCE people to play the game how you want.

Stop insulting people simply because they don't like PvP.

Stop thinking PvPing makes you somehow a tough guy.

It wont happen. Let it go. If they're anything like ME, the moment I'm COERCED into doing anything, it makes me that much less likely to do it so yes, this will push people out of the game.

LEAVE. THEM. ALONE.

This is not a PVP game; this is an MMORPG. It is PVP AND PVE.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I am sick and tired of you GriefBears complaining about CCP not giving you people the ability to harass and grief all day because you can't bother to PvP with other people who WANT to PvP.

And yes...I'm calling your BS. You don't want to PvP. You want to grief people. You want to harass PVE'ers because you're cowards. Go to Low/Null with that stuff and let people play the game how they want.


This is a PVP game. Your meltdown was very un-amusing and I suggest you study the insightful works of Krixtal Icefluxor. If you want to leave risk alone then reward HAS to be reduced to balance highsec with the rest of the game. No one is trying to force people to play the game differently we want balance.

E: The best idea for all of this is to allow players to control their risk and have their reward be dependent on that. The best example of this is freighting. Player A chooses to maximize their risk by packing their freighter with 50billion isk, they will reap the maximum amount of reward they can from this activity. Player B chooses to minimze their risk by packing their freighter with 2 billion isk, they will reap a much smaller amount of reward than player A does from this activity. In that example players control their risk which allows them to control their proportionate reward. Everything there is in the players hands including the responsibility for their success/failure.



You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#443 - 2012-10-11 19:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Alavaria Fera wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
This is a PVP game. Your meltdown was very un-amusing and I suggest you study the insightful works of Krixtal Icefluxor. If you want to leave risk alone then reward HAS to be reduced to balance highsec with the rest of the game. No one is trying to force people to play the game differently we want balance.

Krixtal Icefluxor, I seem to recall seeing that name somewhere...


Might these be where?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1188528#post1188528

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1283345#post1283345

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#444 - 2012-10-11 19:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
KillerPriest wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:
No.

Leave the care bears alone.

Stop trying to FORCE people to play the game how you want.

Stop insulting people simply because they don't like PvP.

Stop thinking PvPing makes you somehow a tough guy.

It wont happen. Let it go. If they're anything like ME, the moment I'm COERCED into doing anything, it makes me that much less likely to do it so yes, this will push people out of the game.

LEAVE. THEM. ALONE.

This is not a PVP game; this is an MMORPG. It is PVP AND PVE.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I am sick and tired of you GriefBears complaining about CCP not giving you people the ability to harass and grief all day because you can't bother to PvP with other people who WANT to PvP.

And yes...I'm calling your BS. You don't want to PvP. You want to grief people. You want to harass PVE'ers because you're cowards. Go to Low/Null with that stuff and let people play the game how they want.


This is a PVP game. Your meltdown was very un-amusing and I suggest you study the insightful works of Krixtal Icefluxor. If you want to leave risk alone then reward HAS to be reduced to balance highsec with the rest of the game. No one is trying to force people to play the game differently we want balance.

E: The best idea for all of this is to allow players to control their risk and have their reward be dependent on that. The best example of this is freighting. Player A chooses to maximize their risk by packing their freighter with 50billion isk, they will reap the maximum amount of reward they can from this activity. Player B chooses to minimze their risk by packing their freighter with 2 billion isk, they will reap a much smaller amount of reward than player A does from this activity. In that example players control their risk which allows them to control their proportionate reward. Everything there is in the players hands including the responsibility for their success/failure.



You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.

Actually, without these changes in effect the numbers that really count for miners are plummeting.

Also, you continue to attack a specific playstyle. Show me some logic or facts. Why is risk bad for high-sec miners when in every other economic system ever, risk is good for successful participants?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#445 - 2012-10-11 19:28:03 UTC
KillerPriest wrote:



You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.


Numbers grew for the 8 months that the "great miner gank" happened.
KillerPriest
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#446 - 2012-10-11 19:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: KillerPriest
baltec1 wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:



Show me where CCP says this is a PVP ONLY game.


EVE has always been advertised as a PVP game. Everything involves it.


Advertising the PVP element is not the same as it being a PVP Game.

If it were a PVP game,we wouldn't have you guys here bitching about how CCP is stifling PVP against Highsec PVE'ers now would we.

See how the OP's OWN POST destroys this argument???


(Checkmate, I'm unsubbed from this thread,you guys sit here and whine all day).

KP
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#447 - 2012-10-11 19:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
KillerPriest wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:



Show me where CCP says this is a PVP ONLY game.


EVE has always been advertised as a PVP game. Everything involves it.


Advertising the PVP element is not the same as it being a PVP Game.

If it were a PVP game,we wouldn't have you guys here bitching about how CCP is stifling PVP against Highsec PVE'ers now would we.

See how the OP's OWN POST destroys this argument???


(Checkmate, I'm unsubbed from this thread,you guys sit here and whine all day).

KP

Actually, no, I don't. Please show me how an argument for introducing risk back into high-sec mining destroys the argument for introducing risk back into high-sec mining. Roll

[Edit] My feelings are quite hurt. An opinionated troll with no factual case whatsoever isn't posting in this thread anymore.[/Edit]

Miracles will never cease.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2012-10-11 19:31:27 UTC
KillerPriest wrote:

And what's funny is, the only people you see with that viewpoint are veterans. They're established, they've got ships, skills, millions of SP and a huge ALliance to fund/carry them. Now they want to come to HS and destroy noobs and PVE'ers, it's SO f**king lame and pathetic, because you KNOW these pussies didn't log in on day 1 and go straight to null to live on the wilde side". No sir. These punk asses stayed their asses in highsec just like EVERYONE ELSE until they felt PREPARED/MOTIVATED to go to null, but they they want to call people "carebears" for doing the same s**t they did. Can't stand these MF'ers man seriously, people like this PLAGUE EVERY f**king MMO out there and it is insanely annoying. S**ting on folks for anything from just wanting to PVE to actually having lives outside of the game. (Like this Goonqueer above me).


We don't hunt newbies, we are one of the most newbie friendly alliances in the game. All of that stuff we have we earned through many man-hours of listening to DBRB while shooting structures. We come to highsec because nullsec is neglected and continually attenuated by CCP. This meltdown is much better than your last one.

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#449 - 2012-10-11 19:33:16 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:

And what's funny is, the only people you see with that viewpoint are veterans. They're established, they've got ships, skills, millions of SP and a huge ALliance to fund/carry them. Now they want to come to HS and destroy noobs and PVE'ers, it's SO f**king lame and pathetic, because you KNOW these pussies didn't log in on day 1 and go straight to null to live on the wilde side". No sir. These punk asses stayed their asses in highsec just like EVERYONE ELSE until they felt PREPARED/MOTIVATED to go to null, but they they want to call people "carebears" for doing the same s**t they did. Can't stand these MF'ers man seriously, people like this PLAGUE EVERY f**king MMO out there and it is insanely annoying. S**ting on folks for anything from just wanting to PVE to actually having lives outside of the game. (Like this Goonqueer above me).


We don't hunt newbies, we are one of the most newbie friendly alliances in the game. All of that stuff we have we earned through many man-hours of listening to DBRB while shooting structures. We come to highsec because nullsec is neglected and continually attenuated by CCP. This meltdown is much better than your last one.

Another thing our "Zero Likes Sock Puppet" missed is that veterans have a more mature grasp on what's good for the game overall.

We know intuitively, for example, that runaway supply and reduced demand are two bad components of an economy desiring growth.

Newer players tend to be blinded by their small wallets, and perceive risk as a negative rather than a positive.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2012-10-11 19:34:12 UTC
KillerPriest wrote:

Show me where CCP says this is a PVP ONLY game.


In EVE, a universe of unbounded opportunity awaits new capsuleers, whether they lust after wealth, crave the fight or simply yearn for adventure among the stars.

Source:

http://www.eveonline.com/universe/

CCP's own website emphasizes conflict and pvp.

Now give us a hilarious meltdown or :frogout:.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#451 - 2012-10-11 19:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
KillerPriest wrote:


Advertising the PVP element is not the same as it being a PVP Game.

If it were a PVP game,we wouldn't have you guys here bitching about how CCP is stifling PVP against Highsec PVE'ers now would we.

See how the OP's OWN POST destroys this argument???


(Checkmate, I'm unsubbed from this thread,you guys sit here and whine all day).

KP


Given that EVE is known thoughout the MMO world as a hardcore PVP game, the Devs say its a pvp game and that for the 7 years I have played this game it has been known as a PVP game and that every activity involves PVP I would say that EVE Online, is a PVP game.

But by all means show me the evidence you have that shows that EVE is ,infact, not a PVP game.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#452 - 2012-10-11 19:38:01 UTC
KillerPriest wrote:

You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.


So you hate people who dwell in nullsec and cannot corroborate any of your arguments.

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#453 - 2012-10-11 19:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
La Nariz wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:

You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.


So you hate people who dwell in nullsec and cannot corroborate any of your arguments.

I liked the "Checkmate" part the best.

An argument for injecting risk into high-sec apparently defeats an argument for injecting risk into high-sec. Lol

That's the best meltdown ever.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2012-10-11 19:44:02 UTC
KillerPriest wrote:


Advertising the PVP element is not the same as it being a PVP Game.

If it were a PVP game,we wouldn't have you guys here bitching about how CCP is stifling PVP against Highsec PVE'ers now would we.

See how the OP's OWN POST destroys this argument???


(Checkmate, I'm unsubbed from this thread,you guys sit here and whine all day).

KP


So please explain this to me then. EVE is marketed as a pvp game and people subscribe to it as a pvp game. Why are people remaining subscribed if it is not a pvp game? I can guarantee you people are not so enthralled with shooting red crosses or rocks that they remain subscribed.

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Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#455 - 2012-10-11 19:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
KillerPriest wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
KillerPriest wrote:
No.

Leave the care bears alone.

Stop trying to FORCE people to play the game how you want.

Stop insulting people simply because they don't like PvP.

Stop thinking PvPing makes you somehow a tough guy.

It wont happen. Let it go. If they're anything like ME, the moment I'm COERCED into doing anything, it makes me that much less likely to do it so yes, this will push people out of the game.

LEAVE. THEM. ALONE.

This is not a PVP game; this is an MMORPG. It is PVP AND PVE.

Flame me all you want, I don't care. I am sick and tired of you GriefBears complaining about CCP not giving you people the ability to harass and grief all day because you can't bother to PvP with other people who WANT to PvP.

And yes...I'm calling your BS. You don't want to PvP. You want to grief people. You want to harass PVE'ers because you're cowards. Go to Low/Null with that stuff and let people play the game how they want.


This is a PVP game. Your meltdown was very un-amusing and I suggest you study the insightful works of Krixtal Icefluxor. If you want to leave risk alone then reward HAS to be reduced to balance highsec with the rest of the game. No one is trying to force people to play the game differently we want balance.

E: The best idea for all of this is to allow players to control their risk and have their reward be dependent on that. The best example of this is freighting. Player A chooses to maximize their risk by packing their freighter with 50billion isk, they will reap the maximum amount of reward they can from this activity. Player B chooses to minimze their risk by packing their freighter with 2 billion isk, they will reap a much smaller amount of reward than player A does from this activity. In that example players control their risk which allows them to control their proportionate reward. Everything there is in the players hands including the responsibility for their success/failure.



You can put up smokescreen after smokescreen, bottom line is you nullersare bored and you want some easy targets. Bottom, F'ing, Line. Miners in HS are like raw steaks and you're (alleged) Lions behind 8 inch thick glass. Go ahead and implement these changes and watch the numbers plummet.


No, the bottom line is that most high-sec miners don't want to play eve, they want to do laundry or watch a movie or whatever it is that grabs their attention. Every now and then (they'll actually have it timed if they aren't totally lazy), they'll come back to their computer to empty their Ore Hold and start the process over. These are the shitheads that deserve to be ganked, I say this having been one of those shitheads. I will also state that those who think that ganking miners for "teh tears" or "teh lulz" are also shitheads who need to man up and shoot something that will fight back. There is a difference between ganking to be an asshat and ganking to remove competition. CCP gave in to the cries of the huddled AFK miners and made it so that they didn't need to actually learn how to properly fit a barge/exhumer. Yield fit isn't the only fit, you can get a decent tank on a hulk, you just need to be a little creative and not simply hyperfocus on yield.

Get out from behind Mama CCP's skirt and Lrn2Fit. You'll find you get ganked less often, oh, wait that's right, you don't need to L2F cause Mama CCP gave you ridiculous EHP so you can still failfit your barges/exhumers and pat yourself on the back while convincing yourself and other n00bs that you're doing it right when in reality you're doing it wrong.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#456 - 2012-10-11 20:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
ganking a hulk requires more attention than what most miners put in for the entire day

lol, CCP must be desperate for subscriptions if they have to save /that/

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#457 - 2012-10-11 20:12:45 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Instead we have the current situation that the once high prices are crashing because anyone can enter their profession and do well in it. Now they get to compete with bot armies as well as other legitimate miners. They shot themselves in the foot is a good analogy that comes to mine. I wonder if CCP will again intervene to save the miners from themselves.


"They shot themselves in the foot"

Really?

Has it occurred to anyone here that in the course of "helping miners", by heroic and charitable acts by gankers that err.... gave us that buff?

Sure there were ganks, it went with the territory, but it got out of control. WAY out of control.

On Darths repeated Value=Supply/Demand BS.

Really?

Has it occured to anyone arguing "prices are crashing" that if miners DID tank back then, mineral prices would still be wherever they are? The yield differential using/not using tank is not and never was a market changing number.


And the omnipresent ganker statement - "you NEED us"

Really?
Even stranger, apparently we need the help of gankers to remove the buff so we can be ganked so they can help us again.



Who can guess where the real problem lies in all this?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#458 - 2012-10-11 20:17:08 UTC
Alaekessa1 wrote:
No, the bottom line is that most high-sec miners don't want to play eve

For a start, they ARE playing Eve if they are "highseccers".

And by "not playing", you mean they're not playing the way YOU want them too?


That's a problem for you. Why?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-10-11 20:18:51 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Alaekessa1 wrote:
No, the bottom line is that most high-sec miners don't want to play eve

For a start, they ARE playing Eve if they are "highseccers".

And by "not playing", you mean they're not playing the way YOU want them too?


That's a problem for you. Why?


Explain to me how emulating bot behavior and not being present at the keyboard while the game is playing itself is playing EVE.

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#460 - 2012-10-11 20:23:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Alaekessa1 wrote:
No, the bottom line is that most high-sec miners don't want to play eve

For a start, they ARE playing Eve if they are "highseccers".

And by "not playing", you mean they're not playing the way YOU want them too?


That's a problem for you. Why?


Explain to me how emulating bot behavior and not being present at the keyboard while the game is playing itself is playing EVE.

I see he still continues to appear in quotes. How delightful!

While you're at it, sockpuppet, explain how devaluing an entire profession through lack of risk is not a problem for every player in Eve.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom