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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#261 - 2012-10-11 18:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Salpad wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

Oh cr**

Not thrilled about this one.

One would think that with max ss CONCORD would refuse to accept the bounty for such a good person.


Having a bounty on your head doesn't mean it becomes any more legal to kill you in high-sec than it would be without the bounty. If some nefarious person were to place a bounty on you, the bounty hunters would have to suicide-gank you to get a payout.

My selfish concern is that I've apparently P-O some people by being a helpful forum poster [apparently I can come across as an arrogant braggart], and have had a 2b merc contract offer made on my w-space POS [thankfully it was declined].

If that were a 2b bounty on my head, it would pretty much mean I should just sell my freighter. This would also mean given the payout scheme I'd have the bounty on my head virtually forever.

I'm not so much worried about getting ganked in missions or while mining, though it would make me much more skittish than I already am (spamming dscan all the time - an OCD habit I still have from years of living in w-space).

I accept that nowhere is safe, and I can experience losses, hence I wrote "not thrilled" as opposed to a rage "who wants my stuff?" Blink
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#262 - 2012-10-11 18:29:23 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Reticle wrote:


I'm not sure either of you "gets it." Do the math. Do you have any idea what kind of bounty you'd have to place to make it worth it for a single gank? Remember, the gankers get paid only a portion of the total. So that portion must equal or exceed the cost of the gank. But here's the thing, it doesn't end there. Now the ganked player has kill rights on all of the gankers. Or better yet, he sets up his own alts to get the bounty payout by getting a noob alt to kill his insured ship in some quiet corner of null sec.



Say your target has spent 1billion on a top range PvE ship. That means the pay out will be: 20,000,000.

To gank a ship like this you'll need help, so you bring 3 mates.

Total bounty payout: 5,000,000isk each.


Doesn't really seem worth it....


Oh, and BTW, when you suggest my posts are "ill-informed", you might want to examine your own posts.
The kill percentage CCP is suggesting is 20%. 20% of 1 billion is 200 million, not 20 million.

So basically, you are too stupid to do basic math, or you are a hypocrite who did not read the dev blogs.
Take your pick.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#263 - 2012-10-11 18:29:49 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Another question... can killrights be redeemed/activated in nullsec???

^^ The answer better be a resounding NNNOOOO..... there is NO reason to allow this, as a Suspect flag means NOTHING there...


No, not in null sec, but low is a different matter. It will allow you to jump on the "mark" without the gate guns shooting on you. I think it's reason enough...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#264 - 2012-10-11 18:32:29 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Another question... can killrights be redeemed/activated in nullsec???

^^ The answer better be a resounding NNNOOOO..... there is NO reason to allow this, as a Suspect flag means NOTHING there...
It probably can, so it's up to the rightsholder (or renter) to ensure that the target is where it needs to be before activating it.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Do the math zippy...100M is not enough to make it worthwhile.
That will depend on what you're flying. Anything that can be ganked with (just under) 20M worth of ships and equipment will be at risk…
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#265 - 2012-10-11 18:32:33 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Salpad wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
we're going to make it so you can't place bounty on inactive characters

I like that you still hate him though after all this time Blink


I'm not really sure I hate him. EVE is just a game. But it sort of became a minor and peripheral ambition of mine, that I might one day become a wealthy merchant prince and be able to buy some revenge on this pilot. Now, five years later, you're finally making that possible.

What about him knowing who placed the bounty, though? And what about bounty retraction for that other guy to whom I lent ISK?


No-one will know who placed a bounty against them, if you have been a bad bad person then I am sure you will have your suspicions.
You will be able to track your contributions to other bounty targets though through the bounty office.


Yeah, this is a bad thing, and respectfully I would ask you to take a second look at it and its potential to be abused, especially since I can now place a bounty, anonymously, on anyone at all for any reason. The victim should at least know who did it, y'know?


Why should they know who placed it?

In any case, it's a slightly pointless idea, the chances are that you'd just find out that the person who placed a bounty on you was just an NPC-corp alt. If you really want someone to know that you've placed a bounty on them, just mail them and tell them.
Chirality Tisteloin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2012-10-11 18:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Chirality Tisteloin
Noriko Mai wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:

I will point out to anyone who wants to "Rent" out their kill rights that they put a price tag on it, otherwise you're giving the person a free get out of jail card because they'll just activate on themselves and shoot themselves in a rookie ship.

Good point!


Good point. What about having the kill-right last until the full bounty has been claimed? Wouldn't that make the system more consistent. Like so:

If the bounty hunter activates the rented kill-right it is gone for him (but not the original kill-right holder) Kill-rights can then be rented out multiple times... until the bounty has been claimed.... just thinking how this goes together with the bounty-pool concept...

See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#267 - 2012-10-11 18:35:20 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

Oh cr**

Not thrilled about this one.

One would think that with max ss CONCORD would refuse to accept the bounty for such a good person.


Having a bounty on your head doesn't mean it becomes any more legal to kill you in high-sec than it would be without the bounty. If some nefarious person were to place a bounty on you, the bounty hunters would have to suicide-gank you to get a payout.

My selfish concern is that I've apparently P-O some people by being a helpful forum poster [apparently I can come across as an arrogant braggart], and have had a 2b merc contract offer made on my w-space POS [thankfully it was declined].

If that were a 2b bounty on my head, it would pretty much mean I should just sell my freighter, and never AFK autopilot ever again. This would also mean given the payout scheme I'd have the bounty on my head virtually forever.

I'm not so much worried about getting ganked in missions or while mining, though it would make me much more skittish than I already am (spamming dscan all the time - an OCD habit I still have from years of living in w-space).


If you have a 2b bounty on your head.... then, to redeem that bounty with ONE LOSS, your ship would need to be worth 10 billion... Guess what... people will already gank your if you're carrying that much, so very little is changing for you..

The only thing that is at all changed is the "minimum value" you can safely haul before it becomes worthwhile to gank you. And frankly, its working as intended... don't be an asshat and people won't place large bounties on you!!!!
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#268 - 2012-10-11 18:35:33 UTC
So if someone buys a killright that's on you, everyone in the area is free to wade in as well?

Note to self, no more autopilot travelling Pirate

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2012-10-11 18:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Many of the carebears here don't understand the concept of how this bounty system works.

If I am in a shipworth 200 million in order for the bounty hunter to make money off you is by killing your ship with a ship(s) worth 20% of the value of your current ship which would be a 40 million isk ship. With 40mil you are only breaking even so you probably need something like a 20-30mil ISK ship to make it profitable. Obviously it is a bit more then 20% if you count module drops that he could collect. This also works both ways, if you have a bounty on your head and you seem defenseless, some ****** tries to gank you but gets killed before you die (you actually tank you ship) you will make a profit on his loss (go loot his ship).


If he does kill you, you can put up a kill rights that will allow you gain from your loss within the next 30days by allowing others to pay you for ganking rights.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#270 - 2012-10-11 18:40:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Another question... can killrights be redeemed/activated in nullsec???

^^ The answer better be a resounding NNNOOOO..... there is NO reason to allow this, as a Suspect flag means NOTHING there...
It probably can, so it's up to the rightsholder (or renter) to ensure that the target is where it needs to be before activating it.


People JC and fly about too sporadically and unpredictably to ever insure a player is in empire space. My point anyone activating killrights when in nullsec is doing so to purposely waste that killright...as it doesn't grant any permissions or privileged there.

My initial thought is that it shouldn't even be an option there.... although upon contemplation, I'll admit there are certain regional gates between nullsec and empire I could see how it may be used to the detriment of the target...
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2012-10-11 18:41:03 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
So if someone buys a killright that's on you, everyone in the area is free to wade in as well?

Note to self, no more autopilot travelling Pirate


Or just pay off your own kill rites.
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#272 - 2012-10-11 18:42:22 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


But don't worry, I imagine I will have far bigger problems that wannabe tough guys like you.
Though I strongly doubt I will show up on the goon's radar, undoubtedly there will be quite a few people with 10 billion bounties attached to them Dec 5th.


And I'd bet theirs a story behind each and every one of them outlining causation in some capacity. It won't be random, and it won't be entirely undeserving. Undoubtedly.

Cause, and Effect.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2012-10-11 18:43:12 UTC
When the person has the kill rites activated will they be able fight back against aggressors?
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#274 - 2012-10-11 18:44:37 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
So if someone buys a killright that's on you, everyone in the area is free to wade in as well?

Note to self, no more autopilot travelling Pirate


Yeah, and it better not only cost 1m isk to do it....though would be an interesting way to keep someone docked, just spend 1m every 15 minutes to keep them permanently "suspect"ed...

I have a feeling this wasn't very well thought out. Will mean the next time i find a Botting CNR, i might not want to kill it b/c then instead of having to find me themselves, the botter will merely have to click the 'public' option for the KillRight, and for the next 30 days i'll have to dodge random 15 minute "suspect" flags whenever someone feels like dropping pocket change to watch me dance.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#275 - 2012-10-11 18:45:33 UTC
I do see the hauling business getting much more interesting.

The wealth in this game is generally centered around the trade sector, and they will be the ones exercising big bounties on hauling corps and any other affiliates they can figure out is effecting the markets they play in.

I can see it getting pretty dirty.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#276 - 2012-10-11 18:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Gypsio III wrote:
Why should they know who placed it?

In any case, it's a slightly pointless idea, the chances are that you'd just find out that the person who placed a bounty on you was just an NPC-corp alt. If you really want someone to know that you've placed a bounty on them, just mail them and tell them.
Hell, I'd just set up a bounty-anonymising corp to provide that much-needed service.

Why waste one of your own alt slots when you can use it for something much better and not fear retribution? Bounties placed on anything and anyone for a modest 5% commission fee. Big smile

Strata Maslav wrote:
When the person has the kill rites activated will they be able fight back against aggressors?
Since the killer is flagged as a suspect, he'll be allowed to fight back against anyone trying to shoot him, at which point the two will enter a limited engagement. Anyone trying to interfere with said engagement by providing remote support will also be flagged suspect. Anyone willing to start shooting the killer will be allowed to do so as well, at which point they also enter a limited engagement.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#277 - 2012-10-11 18:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Strata Maslav wrote:
When the person has the kill rites activated will they be able fight back against aggressors?


Yes....

When the killrights are activated, they become a suspect that everyone can shoot. If you shoot them, you form a Limited Engagement that allows them to shoot back at you....

The twisted part, is that if you bring a logistics friend, who's in the same corp, alliance, or Militia.... that logistics pilot can repair you, and the Suspect CANNOT legally engage the logistics ship....

In short... you get free logistics from corp mates, alliance mates, and militia mates when you do this!!!

Please see the dev comment:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#278 - 2012-10-11 18:52:08 UTC
The more i think of buyable killrights, the less i see the point in them.

Can anybody help me out on this ?

For me, it sounds like - after a while - less and less people with killrights against them will be around,
because there are far more people claiming these killrights ... and worse, people will just rely on alts
to kill others and then will have them stick in stations until they are clean again.

The fantastic idea of having hundreds of people around me who i can shoot gets slapped in the face
by the actual reality of being in hek and - for a day - seeing dozens of people already killing each other ...
... and then it's over. Done. Finito. No more killrights to buy, because all of them have been claimed already.

For the idea of buyable killrights to work, there must be enough influx of people killing others,
so there are enough killrights to buy, which gets pointless, because EVERYBODY around me would
try to seek everybody out who has a killright on him...

Did i miss something ? Please excuse if the description of my thoughts wasn't accurate enough to
explain the mess it makes in my head.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2012-10-11 18:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Panhead4411 wrote:
MisterNick wrote:
So if someone buys a killright that's on you, everyone in the area is free to wade in as well?

Note to self, no more autopilot travelling Pirate


Yeah, and it better not only cost 1m isk to do it....though would be an interesting way to keep someone docked, just spend 1m every 15 minutes to keep them permanently "suspect"ed...

I have a feeling this wasn't very well thought out. Will mean the next time i find a Botting CNR, i might not want to kill it b/c then instead of having to find me themselves, the botter will merely have to click the 'public' option for the KillRight, and for the next 30 days i'll have to dodge random 15 minute "suspect" flags whenever someone feels like dropping pocket change to watch me dance.


"If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’"

You have a 1 mil kill right on your head? Undock in a T1 frigate tell your corp mate to buy the kill right and blow up your ship. You give him the 1 mil and the kill right is done.

This is why they have put the ability to change the amount of the kill right.

The fun is when you kill your alt and put a put a 50mil kill right on your head. You sit there waiting for someone to pay then you run around the system for 15 minutes. Cha ching 50 million. This will be the new dynamic game play that this whole system will bring.

Kill right baiting.
None ofthe Above
#280 - 2012-10-11 18:58:10 UTC
So first impressions on this plan:

Big thumbs up for the proportional bounties, wide consensus that this was the way to go and glad to see CCP going with the flow, instead of the urge to come up with something riskier and off the wall. Like the plans for customized bounties on corps, alliances, structures and ships. Transferable killrights!

Unsure about dropping the sec status requirement. I get the desire to allow bounties against those that transgress but manage to stay within the letter of the law. Corp thieves for example. But it won't be restricted to that. I wonder what will happen when someone decides to start putting bounties on day olds in one of the rookie systems just for the hell of it? Bounties for contrary opinions on these forums will be popular for sure. Personally I see these as abuses and I am not sure how these could be protected against. (Age limit for the char maybe. One month old? Something like that?)

Really don't like: Activating killrights flipping the suspect flag. I think this piles on with other changes to put a chilling effect on many forms of high sec PVP. Preserving high sec PVP through these changes needs to be looked at. On that note, are there changes planned for WarDecs? That is still broken. (Forever wars and the new Dec Shield "trap" for example.)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.