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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Idranel Hacksong
Jain Zar Gate
#221 - 2012-10-11 17:41:03 UTC
Fantastic work! Go you wonderful teams!!

One thing I'd like to bring to your attention however : moar locator agents/ locator agents in every station but limited to finding certain wanted capsuleers based on bounty range/ a simple way to find the juicy targets. I hope someone reads this and spreds it around.

o7
Megan DeMonet
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2012-10-11 17:42:54 UTC
this is without a doubt the dumbest thing i have heard of being done to EVE. wtf is the point of bounty if you can only collect a percentage. based on implants for a pod, come on, i pod a lot of people w/ bounty, that have no implants. what would the point of me hunting them down to kill then, ganking them in highsec, risking m ship/pod in low and null sec for a lousey 20% of what i kill. now that means i cant catch them in just anything, "oh look a shuttle, and the pilot has 12,000,000 bounty. think ill pod him" what do i get like 100 isk for the ship and 0 isk for an empty pod..

i reckon if you want to suck isk out of peoples wallets and not return it, this is a damn fine way to do it.

and yea i do actively him bounty. this will change that. it wont be worth the risk

A Priest, a Rabbi, and an Imam walk into a bar......
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#223 - 2012-10-11 17:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So you are saying that the logi's are OK, as long as the victim does not shoot back?
Of course. Standard CrimeWatch 2.0 rules apply: the victim hasn't done anything wrong and hasn't (yet) chosen to engage in any hostilities, so he's a completely clean and free target to rep.

Quote:
Another scenario:
Griefers place bounties on tons and tons of players associated with Incursions.
Now, the log's have to make a choice: Do I rep the victim, and risk him shooting back and suddenly I am flagged, or do I watch him die?
More accurately: the logis keep repping and if the victim chooses to flag himself, the logis will get the standard warnings or even automatically shut off if the safety system makes it in. It's the victim's choice if he wants to deny himself logi support (and since CONCORD will be around shortly, there's no reason for him to shoot back).

Quote:
And the flip side is even if Incursion fleets make it mandatory that victims cannot shoot back, to protect logi's, you KNOW that the griefers will stuff an Awoxer in a fleet. Imagine the griefing capabilities. The Awoxer "victim" is "ganked" by his Bounty Hunter buddies. The logi's start repping him, because it is understood that the victim will not shoot back. But the victim DOES shoot back, and suddenly all those logi's have a suspect flag and are fair game to the gankers.
…at which point the logis will automatically switch off and the awoxer (and/or gankers) lose their ships.

Quote:
Just how long will it be before Incursion logi's will not be repping players with bounties, or simply all players with bounties will be banned from Incursion fleets.
Since there's no reason to ban them from the fleets to begin with, I'd guess roughly the lifetime of EVE. Being in a logi doesn't make much difference — they're tough as nails to gank as it is and are too cheap to produce a good bounty payout, so they won't be worth-while targets.

Sturmwolke wrote:
It's was a fairly important point in the bounty system for CCP to clarify and that wasn't explained with clarity.
How is “no effect” not clear? Ugh
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#224 - 2012-10-11 17:46:41 UTC
don't know if anyone mentioned it

but would one possible iterative enhancement be "limited time bounties" -

so you're alliance head honcho.. you want to give your pilots an incentive to go shoot the enemy

place a 1 month duration, $10bn isk bounty on your enemy alliance, only pilots in your alliance can collect. $10bn goes into "bounty escrow", at the end of the month any unpaid bounty is refunded from escrow back to wallet it was paid into escrow from.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#225 - 2012-10-11 17:47:43 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
This new feature should come with a brand new bounty hunter helmet that is free on the NeX.

Just a thought.


so is it like a free bobba fett helmet then?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#226 - 2012-10-11 17:48:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And you wonder why people post with alts.

Actually, I don't.

Do you know what's going to be awesome? Placing a bounty high enough to make it worth ganking a blinged out Marauder. Or visiting the local ice belt and punishing the AFK. Or putting bounties on botters. Or putting a bounty on some station humping gankers.

You now have the power to potentially punish anyone you want for virtually any reason. The price just needs to be right. Think on that.

#GetsIt


And this is good for the psychopaths in the game.
Someone who has done nothing in the game to warrant an attack can be griefed right out of the game "legally".
I am not surprised the CSM is onboard with this, given the vast majority are the null sec zealots this was targeted to appease.



/me keeps stirring martini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWxPUSJoeg

Where I am.
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#227 - 2012-10-11 17:49:26 UTC
I don't see why there's so much worry about Goons or any other rich entity putting super high bounties on someone causing suicide gank.

For it to be any different than before, the value of the lost ship and modules * 20% needs to turn the kill from unprofitable (despite loot) to profitable to gank.

Remember also that this generates the now somewhat more dangerous kill rights, even if the attackers fail.

I could have a 2b bounty on me, but if I am only flying a battlecruiser worth 100m, any ganker is going to have to kill me using a ship less than 10m (+whatever they expect me to drop) before concord arrives. As previously stated, I also get a kill right.

Exploits will be found, though I cannot yet see where. Arsehats will be arsedhats - but they always have been. This won't stop them nor make it super-accessible.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2012-10-11 17:55:22 UTC
What happens to a bounty when I place it on a corp, and the corp disbands in terror? Do I get my money back or is the money lost?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rhakshim Silrah
Xa'sar
Pandemic Horde
#229 - 2012-10-11 17:56:28 UTC
Just a thought, should bounties become place-able on structures such as POSs, what is to stop the Corporation with the bounty'd POS to take it down and put it back up to wipe the bounty? Will such bounties be visible to the owner of the POS? What about Outposts, will they be included in the system? If so, how will that work as I believe you do not destroy them?

As far as anonymous bounty placement goes, I am for that.
Gordena Gecko
Greed Ltd.
#230 - 2012-10-11 17:58:03 UTC
If you got a Kill right you have 2 Options

1st) Use it yourself
2nd) sell the Kill right

I propose a 3rd option:

Possibility to create a Kill contract that can be assigned to a Player / Corp / Alliance , meaning you would pay an amount of ISK as Bounty + a fee for creation. The receiver of this Contract would be able to activate the Kill right, destroy the target and receive Bounty within the usual mechanic. These Contracts would last as long there is Bounty left in them or time runs out.

Example: player A got ganked by player B, so he got a kill right lasting 30 days. He now creates a Killcontract with 200M Bounty in it and assigns it to Bountyhunter C.

C can now hunt and destroy B until B lost enough ships/clones to empty the 200M Bounty or the time of the Contract runs out.

Max time on Contract 30 days.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2012-10-11 17:58:38 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

And this is good for the psychopaths in the game.
Someone who has done nothing in the game to warrant an attack can be griefed right out of the game "legally".
I am not surprised the CSM is onboard with this, given the vast majority are the null sec zealots this was targeted to appease.

People who have done nothing are not punished. People get what they deserve, even if they lack the wit to understand why they so richly deserve it.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
None ofthe Above
#232 - 2012-10-11 17:59:20 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
What happens to a bounty when I place it on a corp, and the corp disbands in terror? Do I get my money back or is the money lost?


Considering you just killed the corp. Retribution is complete and you should probably consider that money well spent. No?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#233 - 2012-10-11 18:00:11 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Goonswarm is the greatest force for order in the EVE universe. By putting everyone in their proper place we can ensure a smoothly functioning EVE universe, and the EVE universe has always been better off when Goonswarm has decided to punish inappropriate behavior. Now, we will be able to crowd-source order-keeping and allow all people who want to see a more orderly highsec do their part.

I am 100% confident that Weaselior and the other elite members of Goonswarm will be finding exciting and amusing ways to exploit this new bounty system, when it goes live. Go, Goons, go!

I hope that Team Super Friends isn't planning any vacations after Retribution goes live - I suspect they will be busy doing some patch work.

And CCP Sreegs might as well prepare a standard template for explaining why "using the new bounty system to do ******* is considered to be an exploit, a violation of the EULA, and a bannable offense"... lol.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#234 - 2012-10-11 18:00:15 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Assumption(s) is the mother of all fuckups.
It's was a fairly important point in the bounty system for CCP to clarify and that wasn't explained with clarity.

So it would have been better written how? In all-caps? How about this:

CCP wrote:
Bounties have NO EFFECT ON WHO CAN BE ATTACKED LEGALLY WHERE.


Honestly, what part of "no effect on who can be attacked legally where" do you not get?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2012-10-11 18:00:23 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
What happens to a bounty when I place it on a corp, and the corp disbands in terror? Do I get my money back or is the money lost?


Considering you just killed the corp. Retribution is complete and you should probably consider that money well spent. No?

Not really, we'll find them in Corp2 with the same logo and member list. Same as wardec-hopping.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Reticle
Sight Picture
#236 - 2012-10-11 18:00:36 UTC
There's a lot about this that I could like... but unfortunately it will not work as intended.

1. Clarify please--Someone accepts my killright on a Bad Guy that I put up for rent/sale at 50mill. Bad guy gets Suspect flag, but the White Knight with the Kill Right isn't in the area. Now other people attack the Bad Guy, kill him. White Knight pays for kill right that others exercise. Is that correct? Or does the Bad Guy get flagged ONLY for the White Knight? If it's not just for the White Knight, this system is dead on arrival. Why would I pay for the right for other people to kill him? Worse still, I have a kill right on someone and put it up for 1 isk. My alt accepts the kill right, the Bad Guy gets Suspect flag. Escapes. I repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Keeping bad guy yellow, for 1 isk, from anywhere in the Universe, for 30 days. (Assuming I understand this at all)

2. Corp/Alliance bounties--Same problem as wardecs. Corps/individuals just drop alliance/corp. Does the bounty for corp/alliance get bounced back similar to the inactive player bounty return? Under what circumstances? If all the members of a corp drop corp and the corp has one active member remaining (say, a perma docked Jita trader), am I SOL?

3. How in the heck is anyone going to collect bounties on non-criminals in high sec? The only available options for doing so would be suicide ganks and war decs. War decs are broken. Evading them is easy and probably always will be (for perfectly valid, understandable reasons, like perma griefing). Very few corporations are in a position where they can't readily corp hop or hide important assets like POS's in hidden alt corps. Suiciding has been neutered to death in Retribution (criminal flag for even ATTEMPTING a gank, never mind being successful) and even if it hadn't been, the attacker would be generating a kill right for the killing the defender to get the bounty. A bounty, by the way, that will not in any way pay for the costs of suiciding the target in the first place. And since it will take many more people to suicide gank him, he'll actually end up with a stack of kill rights!

4. What's to stop a corp/alliance from doing this: I put a bounty on an alliance. The alliance opens up an alt corp, fills it with 2 week heroes, forms fleet of noobships. The alliance puts their guys in insured, but not fitted ships, flies the fleet into the noobship fleet. Alt corp wipes out fleet, getting a % of the value of the ISK loss. If that % of the ISK loss that they receive as bounty is more than the loss incurred by subtracting the insurance payout from the cost of the ship, they'll actually make money doing it.

Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#237 - 2012-10-11 18:01:07 UTC
Am i the first one in this thread curious about the Micro Jump Drive?.. along the lines of if it's implemented how would it work etc?

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#238 - 2012-10-11 18:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Weaselior wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

And this is good for the psychopaths in the game.
Someone who has done nothing in the game to warrant an attack can be griefed right out of the game "legally".
I am not surprised the CSM is onboard with this, given the vast majority are the null sec zealots this was targeted to appease.

People who have done nothing are not punished. People get what they deserve, even if they lack the wit to understand why they so richly deserve it.

…not to mention that bounties have no effect on whether or not someone can be griefed out of the game, legally or otherwise.

Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Am i the first one in this thread curious about the Micro Jump Drive?.. along the lines of if it's implemented how would it work etc?
It's been discussed a fair bit before and isn't as new and exciting as the kill right and bounty revamps. It's basically a module that lets you jump 100km straight ahead pretty much instantly, but with a long cool-down.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#239 - 2012-10-11 18:01:25 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
/me keeps stirring martini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrWxPUSJoeg


You should keep one of these on the arm of your chair while you do that. Cat hair in your martini is a small price to pay for ambiance.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#240 - 2012-10-11 18:03:42 UTC

1.) The changes to bounty payout were very much needed!!! I whole-heartedly approve!!!!

2.) Allowing bounties on all people, corps, and alliances is great.... and I think this is awesome. I may have missed something, but in the optimal payout situation, upon destroying someones ship, you could get a payed four times... Militia Payout, Character Bounty, Corp Bounty, and Alliance Bounty.... And with 20% each, you will still not be payed more isk than what you destroyed (assuming correct in-game market values). This is good!!!!

3.) The changes to killrights, where it allows you to toggle the "suspect" flag on the Killright target, by anyone, at anytime, instantly... is complete genius!!!!!!! I 100% approve!!!!!!!!!!!!

4.) Flagging someone as a suspect in lowsec is actually pretty useless... all it does is eliminate the sec status hit you take when shooting them (and potentially the related sentry gun fire). How about, if you redeem killrights on a player, it gives them a sec hit, so they gain sentry gun aggro as well as become a suspect?? I honestly don't care about this in highsec, but it would give an extra punch that makes using killrights in lowsec actually worth it!

5.) The "redeem killrights with an alt" situation is annoying, but having the payout go to the victim that gained killrights is a good compromise.


Overall... excellent job....

P.S.... is it possible to change ASB's so the different size charges actually result in different shield boost amounts?? This would go a long way to bring them into balance!!!