EVE General Discussion

market competition is not pvp because you can't pick individual targets to try and bankrupt them, so any trading is PvM - Player versus Market.

You need to do something about that cough of yours.

I've always been against the opinion that EvE is a PvP only game. Sure, the EvE economy is driven primarily by PvP, but by no means does that mean everyone is engaged in it. Player vs Player is a term not limited to EvE, and is used in many MMO's to describe situations where a player is fighting against another player, as opposed to a player fighting against an NPC. By this very defintion, a player is required to be shooting at another player for it to be described at PvP. There are many professions and activities that do not fall into this field, most of them located in high-sec. I've got a friend that literally never undocks, and he spent a long time building mining barges while (sarcastically) boasting about his uber-PvP-skills.

Now i'm sure people can start saying the things they generally say, that everything in EvE boils down to PvP to some degree, with everything ultimately fueling the materials and objects that eventually end up being destroyed in some sort of PvP-based activity. This however, is just another reference to EvE's unique player-driven economy. It doesn't mean everyone is engaged in simultaneous PvP the instant they log in. That requires two or more players shooting at eachother. A miner shooting rocks for minerials is not PvP, nor is those that run missions over and over, or people that trade endlessly, or those that build lots of stuff. Any arguement made to suggest that it is PvP is foolish, and is made by the very people that argue that EvE is a PvP only game. PvP just fuels the demand of the player-driven economy. Of course, you can try to force this "PvP-only" opinion onto people by exploding them, but they will continue to play eve for all the things that have nothing to do with PvP.

Personally, i think EvE is unique and special because it caters to players interested in both PvP and PvE activities. Those interested in PvE stay in highsec, become carebears and do all those boring things that keep them happy. Those that are more PvP orentated (should) go to low and null, where they can blast other players to their hearts content.

I think its a shame that the "PvP-Only" crowd continue to try to force their opinion onto those unwilling and uninterested in that side of EvE. Surely both sides have the right to play EvE for the aspects they enjoy? Though imo, as long as their is a constant flow of easy risk-free gankable targets in high that don't shoot back, the "PvP-only" crowd will continue with their arguements, if only to justify their highsec easy-mode.

That's a lot of words just to say "I don't get it..."
Player vrs Player

WiS buff thread detected

So much whining in this thread. Wah we can't gank anymore. Wah.

As far as I know a freighter has more HP than a barge and those still get ganked, so what is stopping you from ganking a miner?

The people that think that market or indy PVP is consentual are morons. I'll spend a billion just to buy up every mod and cut the price in half because it's fun to sometimes.

Well, not trying to slit hair with you here BUT

miners not getting ganked anymore means they make more profit (do not have to replace ships) and people are not quitting mining as often (because they quit if they are ganked).

leading to an increase in people who are mining and subsequently to more competition which lowers the prices for the product

leading to the fact that miners have to take more risks in order to make a profit, taking a ship that has less tank


the fact that a ship can be tanked properly for sacrificing the profit (be it PVE or Mining) is pretty clear, the only question remaining is simply wether the recent mining update did not lead to a situation where the best yield is in fact the best tanked ship as well.

Wait what? The ship that makes the most profit is the one with the best yield, is it not?

No, that is what we just talked about, the ship with the best profit is the one that makes the most yield and does not get killed.


So the result is there is a very sensible balance between

a) the likelihood a ship gets killed (aka the tank mostly)
b) how much interaction is required (aka cargo hold, cycle duration - because if you can run 10 miners at the same time you have effectively 10 times the profit margin)
c) the yield

I suspect a quite simple problem here. Currently there is a ship, lets not name and shame, that has a likelihood of 0 to get killed, requires very little interaction in compare to the others and has a relatively high yield making a higher yield not efficient enough to offset this feature.

There you are - before the patch it was / people believed it was more efficient to take the loss of your mining ship for the higher yield, now they do not anymore - just like PVP, if everybody is flying it, nerf the popular one, buff the unpopular one, until it stops.

Or dont.

Soon enough, when ganking dies down more, it will be more profitable to use the not tanked ship because there is no risk to loose a ship and you can start killing them again. Will take a while though.

thats a shame because IKEA is awesome.

Yeah I know, eve isn't awesome.

This IS a game and any comparison between my views in and out of game are illogical.



I would prefer a smarter and more motivated community hell bent on improving their knowledge and skill in the game as opposed to whining about pushing a button and not receiving bacon. If that community happens to be smaller that would be fine by me.



Labeling me a carebear or an elite pvper is laughable. Check my killboard history, apart from a few failed ganks, a couple hauler losses of t2 invention crap and your occasional pvp loss I am just another player in the scrum competing for resources and profits.

I revel in my ability to learn from my experiences and/or suffer the consequences when I lose my patience and make a bad decision. The same people that whined for the mining barge change are the same players who went right back to the place they got ganked with the same ship and never learned. So am I elitsit for being upset that CCP would cater to those who had the opportunity to prevent their demise but chose not to? I guess so!

EVE isn't like IKEA anyway because in EVE you can get out without having to go through the whole thing - unlike IKEA where you have to walk through the whole store to escape...