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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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Ark Anhammar
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#381 - 2012-10-11 10:10:30 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Ark Anhammar wrote:
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Yes! Please fix this. Many of the HUD brackets can easily become obscured. Maybe a good time to update them? A slide from Fanfest showed off some interesting looking brackets.

I know that a lot of stuff is in research and development, but is picture-in-picture still an element that you guys are interested in implementing within the HUD? I really like how a lot of HUD elements in that slide I linked look. The ship readout and modules look very sleek. That overview design could definitely use some work, but I think it would be nice if the overview appeared a lot sleeker without reducing its effectiveness.

YES PLEASE! I had not seen this slide before. This interface looks AMAZING! PLEASE implement this!!

Here are some clearer shots of that concept UI featured at Fanfest. I really hope the final UI redesigns end up looking sleek like this.

(Regular ship view with destruction effects)
(Tactical view)

Those look so awesome! They must do something similar!!

It's so clean, and I love the active picture of the target!
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#382 - 2012-10-11 10:11:38 UTC
Peter Tjordenskiold wrote:
I would like this style better :

http://i.imgur.com/8szst.png

3 rings. The outer most one is the shield, the mid one is armor and the inner one is hull.


This is a better idea than what was in the original topic. Now there is again hierarchy, from the edge toward the center.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#383 - 2012-10-11 10:12:42 UTC
A8ina wrote:
very nice change I also would like to see the brackets that are rotating around the main bracket to have a purpose like indicating the targets status for example

rotating brackets spinning fast is high transversal velocity or low when spinning slowly

rotating brackets have tight rotation around main bracket is good tracking a lose rotation is but tracking

rotating brackets have a different color or shape to indicate when in falloff off or optimal

We actually have some dreams about something like that... but first we need to make everything solid, and this could be a nice bonus sometime later Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#384 - 2012-10-11 10:13:31 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
i have slept a night about this and i have come to the following conclusion

giving hp bars on the brackets themselves might be to much clutter for my screen

how about connecting a locked target with its bracket via a line on the screen ? not sure if it is a good idea, but it might reduce clutter, which is a good thing

something we should be trying out in the sprint that just started today Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#385 - 2012-10-11 10:13:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Your poor memory isn't something I can help you with. Go back and read what you wrote, and I'm sure you'll spot it very quickly.

How cute, it doesn't understand a rhetorical statement when it sees one. Probably just as baffling as circles.


Quote:
Not really… well, yes, it's my opinion too, but that's largely because I picked it up from people who are good at designing these kinds of things. If the current damage layout is not intuitive, then that just means there's a good reason to make it more intuitive, and in this area in particular, it is more intuitive: there's a beginning and an end.

Once again a block of words utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand! Bravo!

Quote:
Fun fact: the fitting window does not work the same way — in fact, it works the way people are suggesting it should work: clearly separated segments, and different colours representing different quantities.

The fragments look pretty separated to me. Must just be how awesome I am.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#386 - 2012-10-11 10:18:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BobFromMarketing wrote:
How cute, it doesn't understand a rhetorical statement when it sees one.
It wasn't a statement. It was a question. If you don't understand the difference, you should probably avoid using either, much like how you should avoid projecting your own confusion about circles onto others.

Quote:
Once again a block of words utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand!
…aside from discussing what we were discussing and once again answering your original question since you have such a hard time grasping it. Again, if you don't want the answer, don't ask the question (or make the unproven claim). Just because you can't argue against it doesn't mean it doesn't relate to the errors you made.

That said, would you like to actually discuss the topic of UI rather than whine a lot?

Quote:
The fragments look pretty separated to me.
In the fitting screen, yes. In the circle, no. There is no clear beginning or end in the latter, for instance.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#387 - 2012-10-11 10:20:03 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
This looks good, but I have a word of caution CCP:

The blink animation on hit with variable opacity is really cool and all, but I feel like it should be at least partially based on damage you've received over a reasonable time period -- like 2-3 seconds -- rather than simply on-hit. If it is only on-hit, there is motivation to split up weapon groups to make every hit as unobtrusive and difficult to notice as possible, letting everyone else get the big hits and light themselves up as a target. This naturally increases server load, and anything that's a reason to increase server load can't be good.

If you have many smaller hits, your bracket should be really busy, and therefore drawing attention to you.

This is actually something I've been thinking about, and I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#388 - 2012-10-11 10:21:49 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
This is actually something I've been thinking about, and I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.
General rule of EVE: if they can gain an advantage from doing it, they'll do it… Blink
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#389 - 2012-10-11 10:23:18 UTC
BobFromMarketing wrote:

I have no issue discussing that topic. I do in fact find the people complaining about how confusing it is to be frighteningly dim.


You aren't actually discussing anything, just throwing out random ad hominem arguments.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#390 - 2012-10-11 10:23:59 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

... I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.


Yes, they would Pirate

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#391 - 2012-10-11 10:36:30 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

If you have many smaller hits, your bracket should be really busy, and therefore drawing attention to you.

This is actually something I've been thinking about, and I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.



From the perspective of gang fights I don't think it'll make too much of a difference PvP wise. The best FCs and small gang PvPers learn all the PvP ships and the optimised load outs anyway, so you'll know which ship should be doing the most DPS and have the least tank.

FC's generally call targets by ship type rather then DPS received right now, unless of course that's something you're hoping to change.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#392 - 2012-10-11 10:38:34 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
BobFromMarketing wrote:

I have no issue discussing that topic. I do in fact find the people complaining about how confusing it is to be frighteningly dim.


You aren't actually discussing anything, just throwing out random ad hominem arguments.

You are correct! I stopped trying to discuss things pretty much with my initial post which it has yet to touch on. Choosing instead to hammer out sentences while throwing the word intuitive in wherever it feels it can.
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2012-10-11 10:38:49 UTC
1. Pilots will just turn anything off that distracts them.

2. Pilots will just turn anything off that might possibly contribute to latency.

3. Pilots that engage in PvP will have the experience to know who is who and what threat they pose.

4. Pilots that engage in PvE will not give a damn about flashing stuff, they just kill everything and move on quickly.

5. Pilots in Fleet fights will have graphics turned down, brackets off and use only minimal information to fight.

While I fully understand the need for children to get out there crayons and draw brightly coloured pictures this Dev blog just confirms my belief that CCP has no real understanding of how players actually play EVE, what it is they actually need CCP to fix and why if they wish to increase the player enjoyment of the game they 'NEED', to get a handle on this aspect before they go forwards in this manner.

Introducing fancy flashing thingy's into the game may from there point of view be everything to them right now, play EVE and the multitude of former bugs still evident in the game to a player is the real detractor in EVE.

Want something that will actually make EVE a better place to be, sort the PoS interface maybe, or invest in the servers to reduce latency, maybe correct the chat system, heard about that one have you,

In short try and understand what it is that makes EVE players tick, why are they here in the first place and when they are here what is it they actually do and I can assure you it is not spend every minute trying to kill each other while drooling over your inept attempts at Disney graphics.

If you are determined to introduce this flight of fancy into the game could you please do the one thing that players will really enjoy and add a button to change these graphics to a minimalistic design for those of us that have no need of them, you know the sort of thing, no clutter, less distraction sort of thing, the very reason the original hud/target graphics were changed to begin with all those years ago.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#394 - 2012-10-11 10:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP karkur wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
This looks good, but I have a word of caution CCP:

The blink animation on hit with variable opacity is really cool and all, but I feel like it should be at least partially based on damage you've received over a reasonable time period -- like 2-3 seconds -- rather than simply on-hit. If it is only on-hit, there is motivation to split up weapon groups to make every hit as unobtrusive and difficult to notice as possible, letting everyone else get the big hits and light themselves up as a target. This naturally increases server load, and anything that's a reason to increase server load can't be good.

If you have many smaller hits, your bracket should be really busy, and therefore drawing attention to you.

This is actually something I've been thinking about, and I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.


The effect could simply stack? so the more shots that are fired within a short period (and dealing high damage % of your health) the more flashy it becomes like you showed... so basicly splitting guns dont make a difference

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8075811191_1c6ff3bc27_o.png also I agree we need tactical overlay kinda like this

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#395 - 2012-10-11 10:41:54 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
While the circular brackets are nice to look at - don't they make a pretty heavy demand on CPU/GPU versus the square brackets? Client performance should be a higher goal than pretty.
In terms of rendering there is negligible difference. Concerns about performance are duly noted and something we are keenly aware of.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#396 - 2012-10-11 10:52:48 UTC
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png


Now this is what I'd like to see Shocked

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#397 - 2012-10-11 10:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
Bubanni wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
This looks good, but I have a word of caution CCP:

The blink animation on hit with variable opacity is really cool and all, but I feel like it should be at least partially based on damage you've received over a reasonable time period -- like 2-3 seconds -- rather than simply on-hit. If it is only on-hit, there is motivation to split up weapon groups to make every hit as unobtrusive and difficult to notice as possible, letting everyone else get the big hits and light themselves up as a target. This naturally increases server load, and anything that's a reason to increase server load can't be good.

If you have many smaller hits, your bracket should be really busy, and therefore drawing attention to you.

This is actually something I've been thinking about, and I don't know if people would rather press 8 buttons just to try to fly under the radar.


The effect could simply stack? so the more shots that are fired within a short period (and dealing high damage % of your health) the more flashy it becomes like you showed... so basicly splitting guns dont make a difference

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8075811191_1c6ff3bc27_o.png also I agree we need tactical overlay kinda like this

This looks awesome, and has utility in fleet fights.

These circular HP bars are going to be useless in fleet fights with people zoomed out a considerable distance and/or hiding brackets.

It is also counter-intuitive (compared to 3 bars stacked as with current target locks) to look at a circle and have to work out which segment means what.

I wish CCP would just give us the tools to skin the UI ourselves, to be honest. Forcing an alternative way of presenting the same information is always going to have fans and detractors.

I will also add that the person doing the most damage to you might not be the biggest threat. If you're fighting 6 guys one of which is in a Sleipnir and another in a Blackbird, which should you getting off the field first?
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#398 - 2012-10-11 10:56:23 UTC
Kenpachi Viktor wrote:
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png


Now this is what I'd like to see Shocked


I agree, this is perfect,

In the past it's basicly been impossible to see which damage type someone is shooting you with (unless it was lasers or hybrids)

Something similar to that would be perfect, design wise together with what Karkur has already made

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#399 - 2012-10-11 10:59:48 UTC
On the subject of locked target icons, I have to say I like the current (flat) style more than the new (round) style. I think it is much easier to eyeball, even after one gets used to the "which one is shield". And I'm not even talking about new players who will have all the right to be confused.

However, the round style would allow for a very neat effect: scale the length (angle) of the shield / armor / hull indicators in proportion to the target's hitpoints. So a shield-tanked ship might have its shield bar take up 2/3 of the circle, armor bar 2/9, and hull bar 1/9. This would give a much better indication of "how much longer do I need to shoot until this guy dies".
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#400 - 2012-10-11 11:01:49 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Kenpachi Viktor wrote:
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png


Now this is what I'd like to see Shocked


I agree, this is perfect,

In the past it's basicly been impossible to see which damage type someone is shooting you with (unless it was lasers or hybrids)

Something similar to that would be perfect, design wise together with what Karkur has already made


Hmm, how is it useful to you to know what damage type you are getting shot by? It's not like you can adjust your resistances on the fly... (at least unless you have carrier support)