These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Stay on Target!

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#361 - 2012-10-11 09:10:49 UTC
BobFromMarketing wrote:
Nope. But keep trying to throw up walls of words about how your opinion is that of everyone else. It's entertaining.
Sure. As soon as you stop whining about people offering suggestions for improvements.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#362 - 2012-10-11 09:13:24 UTC
I hope this makes it into the winter expansion!

CCP Karkur > CCP Puncturis ( never thougt I would say that )

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#363 - 2012-10-11 09:13:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
BobFromMarketing wrote:
Nope. But keep trying to throw up walls of words about how your opinion is that of everyone else. It's entertaining.
Sure. As soon as you stop whining about people offering suggestions for improvements.

My entire post was aimed at people crying about how confusing it was. You chose to argue that post. I don't care what alternate straw man you wanted to argue about. The new UI would remain confusing until you saw something drop to hull ONCE. Maybe half a dozen times in your case. But at the end of an hour you would be just as comfortable with the circle as you are with the stacked bars.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#364 - 2012-10-11 09:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BobFromMarketing wrote:
My entire post was aimed at people crying about how confusing it was. You chose to argue that post.
I chose to inform you what the problem was since you apparently didn't get it (even though it was fairly well spelled out in many of the posts you were reacting to).

If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

Quote:
The new UI would remain confusing until you saw something drop to hull ONCE.
…and again, it's not a matter of confusion but of good design. It doesn't matter if you learn it after the first time — if it looks odd or lacking in information the first time you see it, then it's a good instinct to get rid of that first doubt, especially since so little is needed to fix it.

Again, there's a reason why the vast majority of gauges work this way: because it communicates the idea well (be it by convention or by deeper cognitive reasons) and because it costs nothing to add this piece of information. So again, what's so upsetting about people suggesting a simple improvement to something that immediately caught everyone's attention?
Aine Ni
Doomheim
#365 - 2012-10-11 09:23:57 UTC
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Okay - I simply LOVE this change.

Looks much better !!!
Gives better infomation !!!
And gives it easier !!!

BUT...
Please, please do the infomation about Shield/Armor/St of target different. I love the circle idea - but why not match it with the circle of ones own ships or similiar. Plus PLEASE use more colours than just white.

If you do - it will be a PREFECT update :)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peter Tjordenskiold
#366 - 2012-10-11 09:31:47 UTC
I would like this style better :

http://i.imgur.com/8szst.png

3 rings. The outer most one is the shield, the mid one is armor and the inner one is hull.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#367 - 2012-10-11 09:35:19 UTC
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png

Interesting idea Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2012-10-11 09:39:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
BobFromMarketing wrote:
My entire post was aimed at people crying about how confusing it was. You chose to argue that post.
I chose to inform you what the problem was since you apparently didn't get it (even though it was fairly well spelled out in many of the posts you were reacting to).

If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

Quote:
The new UI would remain confusing until you saw something drop to hull ONCE.
…and again, it's not a matter of confusion but of good design. It doesn't matter if you learn it after the first time — if it looks odd or lacking in information the first time you see it, then it's a good instinct to get rid of that first doubt, especially since so little is needed to fix it.

Again, there's a reason why the vast majority of gauges work this way: because it communicates the idea well (be it by convention or by deeper cognitive reasons) and because it costs nothing to add this piece of information. So again, what's so upsetting about people suggesting a simple improvement to something that immediately caught everyone's attention?

Perhaps you missed my point the first time since you keep trying to knock down that straw man. I have no issue with people suggesting improvements, you however did not quote my post to suggest improvements, you quoted it directly to refute my point that it's not all that confusing once you sit down and use it. I don't give a rats ass what other points you wish to try to twist into the discussion between us. It's not confusing unless your IQ is lower than 40. End of story.

But I expect you to respond with a block of words almost completely unrelated to anything I have said as you have a habit of doing.
Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-10-11 09:42:49 UTC
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png


This is good - even CCP's suggestion doesn't indicate the damage type you're taking. Once you got the hang of interpreting this it'd tell you everything in a very clean way.
Echo Mande
#370 - 2012-10-11 09:44:48 UTC
I like the new icons in the target bar, but I don't like the ones in the main screen to show HP values because (as others have said) it is more clutter for me to look through. The ECM demo looks nice though. However, I would like the HP value indicator colors, along with an indicator border color and transparency, to be selectable so that I can change the intensity or contrast or choose high visibility colors. Some of us are colorblind (in various ways) or would like the indicators to be in colors that are rarely if ever on the background.

Wallet remarks everywhere
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#371 - 2012-10-11 09:45:04 UTC
Jesspa wrote:
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png


This is good - even CCP's suggestion doesn't indicate the damage type you're taking. Once you got the hang of interpreting this it'd tell you everything in a very clean way.


This is so good that he will be flamed away with "don't dumb down our Eve" responses soon :)
But I really really like this idea, far better than mockups presented by devs :)

Invalid signature format
Lunaleil Fournier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#372 - 2012-10-11 09:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunaleil Fournier
The old 'square' targeting reticule were thin and made the ships the focal point. The new UI makes the -UI- the focal point with thick health bars that sit ontop of the ship. This puts a 'visual barrier' between the ship and me, thus breaking immersion. Why have the health status of the ship over-top of the ship? This information is easily available on the targeting bar and is redundant information. The ships are pretty, make the ships the focus.

The new UI makes it much, much harder to determine the status of multiple targets. Load up 7 targets of varying degrees of damage in both the new and old UI. The old UI was easy to decipher and understand in an instant. The new UI gives you a headache since you have to spend more time looking at it to determine each ship's status.

I see no new information in this new UI. No gun tracking information. No damage types. You've simply re-breaded what was already there, in a less visually appealing and frustrating way. There was no need for this new UI change.

This is bad. Please improve.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#373 - 2012-10-11 09:49:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BobFromMarketing wrote:
Perhaps you missed my point the first time since you keep trying to knock down that straw man. I have no issue with people suggesting improvements
…aside from you calling them whiners and stupid, and you being generally pissy and defensive about it. So no, it's not really a straw man.

Quote:
you however did not quote my post to suggest improvements, you quoted it directly to refute my point that it's not all that confusing once you sit down and use it.
No. I quoted you to explain why people are reacting to it, since you were asking why. I also explained why a relatively simple change would improve things; illustrated how it's not an uncommon issue that has a well-known solution to it; and why first impressions are actually worth listening too, regardless of how clear things become at a later point.

Quote:
It's not confusing unless your IQ is lower than 40. End of story.
…except it's still something that has caught a lot of attention and which therefore warrants a fix, especially since it's so easy to do so. “They'll learn” is a stupid excuse and the product of a lazy mind.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#374 - 2012-10-11 09:54:34 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Much with whats been said previously in this thread i agree with, but one of the absolute best things you guys could do is indicate other effects on enemies better.

Ie warp scrambling webbing etc... yes we have visual cues for those but some we dont at all like tracking disruption, sensor dampening etc... plz plz plz as you've added the effect bar above the ships control area of the HUD theres no need to also include these on the overview box still... stop throwing the same info to multiple areas unless you're doing something clever with them.

id much rather see the icons in the overview area be purple versions of itself to show fleet effects on those contacts in the overview (fleet effects being the effects on the overview contact performed by a member of my fleet)

That would benefit us imensly , it would not be immersion breaking, we dont need more info streamed to us as its info our clients already get to render effects to and from objects in space.

to sum up:
it helps people co-ordinate better without out of game advantages.
it uses art assets that are practically there already.
It turns a now obsolete duplicated system into something useful.
it doesn't increase server load.
BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2012-10-11 09:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: BobFromMarketing
Tippia wrote:
BobFromMarketing wrote:
Perhaps you missed my point the first time since you keep trying to knock down that straw man. I have no issue with people suggesting improvements[/quote
…aside from you calling them whiners and stupid, and you being generally pissy and defensive about it. So no, it's not really a straw man.]

I have no issue discussing that topic. I do in fact find the people complaining about how confusing it is to be frighteningly dim. But then again I guess I can't expect much from people who day in and day out engage in the most mind numbing PvE the MMO world has to offer.
Quote:

Quote:
you however did not quote my post to suggest improvements, you quoted it directly to refute my point that it's not all that confusing once you sit down and use it.
No. I quoted you to explain why people are reacting to it, since you were asking why. I also explained why a relatively simple change would improve things; illustrated how it's not an uncommon issue that has a well-known solution to it; and why first impressions are actually worth listening too, regardless of how clear things become at a later point.

I don't recall asking for any of that information. But thanks for providing yet more useless text!

Quote:
It's not confusing unless your IQ is lower than 40. End of story.
…except it's still something that has caught a lot of attention and which therefore warrants a fix, especially since it's so easy to do so. “They'll learn” is a stupid excuse and the product of a lazy mind.[/quote]
[/quote]
Again, that's your opinion. The current damage layout is not intuitive until you have seen it in action a few times. In fact it's baffling to most non Eve players.

Eve players figured out the new circular non layered fitting window, they can figure out an HP bar working the exact same way.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#376 - 2012-10-11 10:02:19 UTC
You say you are still playing around with it .. why not have add it as an adjustable thing through options. Has the potential to a massive distraction if set just a little too high especially in this alpha age.

On the other hand, it could just be a clever ploy to make us play the game with even less stuff showing as I reckon a lot of people will turn off brackets when engaging Smile

PS: Didn't Eve have those circular UI object way back when .. seem to remember something of the sort when I did my two weeks in the Beta (didnt join proper until several years later because the beta *cough*).
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#377 - 2012-10-11 10:04:59 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
John Nucleus wrote:
Thought I would throw this out there, might generate some ideas for the new damage indicator. The idea was to have a simple indicator that shows hit quality, damage and damage type.

http://i.imgur.com/RZq0p.png

Interesting idea Smile

Please do this <3

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#378 - 2012-10-11 10:05:27 UTC
The thing that I don't like is that the new circular indicator doesn't actually improve the display in any way, so the change is purely cosmetic. Changes in indicators just for cosmetic reasons I oppose. Especially as I see this change as a step to a more obscure UI.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#379 - 2012-10-11 10:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
BobFromMarketing wrote:
I don't recall asking for any of that information.
Your poor memory isn't something I can help you with. Go back and read what you wrote, and I'm sure you'll spot it very quickly.

Quote:
Again, that's your opinion.
Not really… well, yes, it's my opinion too, but that's largely because I picked it up from people who are good at designing these kinds of things. If the current damage layout is not intuitive, then that just means there's a good reason to make it more intuitive, and in this area in particular, it is more intuitive using the current design than in the proposed one: there's a beginning and an end to the bars, but not to the circle.

Quote:
Eve players figured out the new circular non layered fitting window, they can figure out an HP bar working the exact same way.
Fun fact: the fitting window does not work the same way — in fact, it works the way people are suggesting it should work: clearly separated segments, and different colours representing different quantities.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#380 - 2012-10-11 10:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Dex Tera wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
What will the new indicator icons look like on the overview?

The hit icons will not play there... there is no room for them.
We don't all agree on how the targeted/agressing brackets will be... they might just stay as they are now except their blink rate and color/opacity will match the inspace targeted/agressing brackets


also i noticed int the pics in the dev blog that the arrows spinning around the avatr are not in sync plese fix this for my ocd friends in space and als what are the four bars on the outside of the s/a/h bars if you mad these blink yellow and red for lock and argo that would be nice also im confsed as to what label is on the target circle is that the name of the ship or the ship type or the pilots name if you could put the pilots name then the ship type under the locked targets window in that order that would be nice so in pvp i could just say " skils in the raven is blaping me OMG KILL HIM NOW HEEEEEEEEEEELP ME HE HAZ POINTZ ON MEEEEE...nvm im dead"
the reson i say this is cause the avatar says avatar but the raven says skillz im asuming this is the raven pilots name???? plz clarifie dis for me plzCoolthx

Enter, ', ' and "." are your friends Smile

I have not done anything right now to sync the animation and transition, but will look into that when we are getting closer to a final design.
The name on the target in space is the character's name, I believe followed by the ship name. It's a bit confusing because I have at least 2 Ravens on the field. One is owned by my friends skills, and the other one is just floating in space. I have skill's Raven locked, but am locking the unmanned Raven, therefore it just says "Raven".

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur