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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2012-10-11 02:05:59 UTC
I have the photoshop skills of a stoned rabid wombat, but after reading the thread and seeing some of the mockups people have come up with, I cribbed one of them to add a couple of features that address some of the major concerns:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yczdff38xs99gff/TreborMockup.png

I took the circular, multicolored arrowed indicators (excellent cues) and added two additional features while maintaining a very compact layout:

1) Internal numeric blisters that appear when the ship takes shields/armor/hull damage and indicate the % remaining. This compensates for the smaller size of the bars and gives a more precise "at a glance" reading than the current setup.

2) External blisters in the 4 corners that contain green/yellow/red stoplight icons that can be used to indicate various states, like range, tracking, relative velocity, etc.

The numeric blister idea can, of course, be extended to do things like indicate lock times, etc.

Note that this kind of layout could be used to revamp the HUD itself.

Lots of good ideas in the thread, hope this stimulates even more.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#282 - 2012-10-11 02:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Much with whats been said previously in this thread i agree with, but one of the absolute best things you guys could do is indicate other effects on enemies better.

Ie warp scrambling webbing etc... yes we have visual cues for those but some we dont at all like tracking disruption, sensor dampening etc... plz plz plz as you've added the effect bar above the ships control area of the HUD theres no need to also include these on the overview box still... stop throwing the same info to multiple areas unless you're doing something clever with them.

id much rather see the icons in the overview area be purple versions of itself to show fleet effects on those contacts in the overview (fleet effects being the effects on the overview contact performed by a member of my fleet)

That would benefit us imensly , it would not be immersion breaking, we dont need more info streamed to us as its info our clients already get to render effects to and from objects in space.

to sum up:
it helps people co-ordinate better without out of game advantages.
it uses art assets that are practically there already.
It turns a now obsolete duplicated system into something useful.
it doesn't increase server load.
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#283 - 2012-10-11 02:08:32 UTC
I'll second "don't like the circles cause they're confusing" The squares are great and the stacked shield over armor over hull bars are more intuitive than a 3 part ring. Two steps' terrible MSPaint picture would be better concept art if you're committed to circles though.

Love the pulses from damage and the targetable indicator bracket.



The log could stand to have more filtering options. (damage I'm doing, damage I'm taking, shield/armor sent/received)

Log messages should list damage amount first so I can guestimate the incoming DPS while keeping my log window thin. Currently I have to expand it really wide--and even wider if I'm using a gun with a long name.

"17 damage received from Focused Medium Pulse Laser I belonging to skills" for example.
Same thing for outgoing damage:
"250.9 damage hit to skills (Raven) done by your Scourge Torpedo"
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#284 - 2012-10-11 02:11:29 UTC
What about including information about damage flavour?

It's really annoying that the interface doesn't tell me whether I'm being hit with EM, or mostly kinetic, or whatever.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#285 - 2012-10-11 02:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Can you please define what's:
1. Shield
2. Armor
3. Structure

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63449/1/targets3.png

Because it's circular i don't know which is which.
Ugh

So i think old targeting system is better and more transparent.
First is shield 2nd is armor 3rd is hull.
In this new system alot of people will get confused what is what..

So again you're "fixing" something that's not broken at all, because you don't have any better ideas what to do.
Marcus Caspius
#286 - 2012-10-11 02:14:26 UTC
Firstly I think it should be said that it is great to see that you guys are reviewing things however insignificant it may seems. I believe this practice is useful.

I do think that change for the sake of change is a bad thing... I have not heard anyone offering the opinion that the targetting and hitting graphics need to be worked on.

I do think the its visually appealing but on closer inspection it is pretty hard to determine which defence metric (Shield, Armour, Structure) is which. It is not intuitive at all.

Also bear in mind that the way that small scale combat is fought is very different to the way that Large Fleets combat works.

On short I like the what you did there but just make the metrics more intuitive.

Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#287 - 2012-10-11 02:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Skippermonkey wrote:
Make it optional, squares or circles, and its a winner

Yes please do this, oh wait, once it's new system you can't go back, like new UI ..
Roll

Kitt JT wrote:
I'd like to point out, eve originally had circular targeting icons.
They were removed because they sucked.
Now we get them back.

I agree.
Oberine Noriepa
#288 - 2012-10-11 02:41:05 UTC
Ark Anhammar wrote:
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Yes! Please fix this. Many of the HUD brackets can easily become obscured. Maybe a good time to update them? A slide from Fanfest showed off some interesting looking brackets.

I know that a lot of stuff is in research and development, but is picture-in-picture still an element that you guys are interested in implementing within the HUD? I really like how a lot of HUD elements in that slide I linked look. The ship readout and modules look very sleek. That overview design could definitely use some work, but I think it would be nice if the overview appeared a lot sleeker without reducing its effectiveness.

YES PLEASE! I had not seen this slide before. This interface looks AMAZING! PLEASE implement this!!

Here are some clearer shots of that concept UI featured at Fanfest. I really hope the final UI redesigns end up looking sleek like this.

(Regular ship view with destruction effects)
(Tactical view)

∃
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#289 - 2012-10-11 02:47:10 UTC
Please make things different shapes. I can't tell which one of those was aggression and which was attacking. This is your opportunity to make the game suck less for colorblind people. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Leo Litvinov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#290 - 2012-10-11 02:50:07 UTC
Would be nice if you make damage numbers marked with color.
Loco Ramos
Vicious Traditions
#291 - 2012-10-11 02:51:05 UTC
Good. Make this happen!

Also, since you said that you are "(...) tasked with the tall order of improving the EVE players' experience" Here's a low hanging fruit: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808178#post1808178

Cheers!
Marcus Caspius
#292 - 2012-10-11 03:02:02 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
First Big smile


lol Not Fair - you had prior notice!

Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#293 - 2012-10-11 03:06:48 UTC
looks good, looks good

to everyone saying "which is this?" here is something to consider, you are looking at a still shot. EVE is by no measure still shots. when you start getting into combat situations, whether ratting or pvp, I suspect the icons will be fairly intuitive.
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#294 - 2012-10-11 03:08:33 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow get out of my head!

Actually, I was thinking about the top-to-bottom aspect of the current indicators and how they readily show shield, armor, and hull in apparent order. So, try this:

  • Four arcs, divided at the radials heading to the corners (10:30, 1:30, 4:30, and 7:30)
  • Shield is the top arc, with damage progressing clockwise from the 10:30 position to the 1:30 position
  • Armor is the right arc, with damage progressing clockwise from the 1:30 position to the 4:30 position
  • Hull is the bottom arc, with damage progressing clockwise from the 4:30 position to the 7:30 position
  • Traversal is the left arc, with traversal as a percentage of the F1 weapon's current tracking rate progressing clockwise from the 7:30 position to the 10:30 position


For guns I feel that traversal is the most useful instant statistic, but others may differ. And for missiles, well, heh. So, for extra bonus points, make the left arc configurable to other useful stats like:

  • Target range as a percentage of the F1 gun's optimal + 1x falloff
  • Target velocity as a percentage of the F1 launcher's explosion velocity/radius/whatever


Basically I'm putting the three protection layers (shield, armor, hull) in some semblance of top-to-bottom, then using the leftover 4th arc for something new and useful.

MDD
RShade
Rage Loggers
#295 - 2012-10-11 03:17:20 UTC
Id say, if you guys are working on the in-space UI.. while you are at it.. modify the "locked targets" and the overview to show the "tenths" decimal point on distances. Like.. 22.5 and 15.2 rather than the system rounding down to 22 and 15. That has been a slight annoyance for along time and shouldnt have been rounding any values at all for distances. Most modules are not an even .. and they sometimes even will list 2 decimal places on some weapons/modules/etc. so if the modules show that.. the UI/Overview should too.

Also this really goes towards when/if the inventory team puts out a devblog.. but the inventory rounding large stacks of items UP needs to stop. If anything has to be rounded.. round down. Id rather be told i have 230000 of something when its actually 231250, and have more than what i need for an item, rather than under what i need for an item under the current system where it would round up to 232000,etc, on the item icon itself, and you wouldnt know the real value until you mouse over the item and see its actually less.
Rengerel en Distel
#296 - 2012-10-11 03:22:14 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Oberine Noriepa wrote:

EDIT: Also, I think it would be great if we got rid of the cross lines that span across the entire screen when you lock onto a target.


ohh god yes!!



ESC -> General Settings : Inflight : Show targeting crosshair

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#297 - 2012-10-11 03:39:16 UTC
Lost Hamster wrote:

Or just leave like it is now.

I don't mind the circles in the middle of the screen, however on the top, the rectangle is much better. The circle thing is just damm confusing. Don't like it.

PS: don't fix something what is not broken.


QFT

Seriously, is this going to be like the new shiney icon's that did anything but fulfill the basic function of a bloody ICON!

The current system is fine. Yes, the targeting range thing could be handy, but why change the information on the top of the screen (or wherever you have your targets aligned)???

Why is this deemed necessary, and why is changing this thing that is not broken more important that fixing the bloody (still not as good as it used to be) Inventory????

I'm losing faith in you CCP. not sure how much longer i can justify paying your obviously misused salary.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#298 - 2012-10-11 04:13:30 UTC
My 2 cents:

Visuals are used to convey complex information such that one can quickly and easily (dare I say intuitively) understand the information presented.

Ships etc in EVE have 3 layers - shield, then armor, then structure. The current box provides that information clearly and simply in a top-down manner....a circle (even the lovely mockup Trebor did) does not.

I appreciate your efforts...but not every idea is a good one, and a circle is not the right image for this set of data.
Nak an
Perkone
Caldari State
#299 - 2012-10-11 04:21:49 UTC
#1 terrible for color blind people.
however im not color blind.
#2 cicles > squares, always.

Everything is better in Fleet.
Mzr
Session9
#300 - 2012-10-11 04:22:22 UTC
Fix the ******** unified inventory, as previous poster said.

Open your beautifull craptastic unified inventory and open `Assets` on the side (which actually looks like the old inv). Do that for a few hours/days/months so you can fully realise the ******** crap you've forced down our throats. Win95 explorer tree died a long time ago, that's not innovation. Especially if you have SEVEN goddamn corp hangars.

What you should've done is update the code behind it but keep functionality.

Same with this targeting crap change, same with the old fitting window.

Keep it goddamn simple. No-one asked you for my fitting window to sport another picture of my ship inside it (thus taking a shitload of screen realestate), no-one asked you for that ******** piece of junk unified inventory and literally no-one is asking you to destroy the simple targeting interface.

But you're gonna do it anyway.

As a good friend of mine said, every goddamn feature that ended up on SISI went 100% to TQ. No matter how buggy/crappy/********, no rollbacks, no scraps, nothing. CCP marching forward! \o/

PS. A lot of us know that this crap you're pushing down our throats is not innovation, it's just change for the sake of change. Is everybody in decision positions at CCP bored out of their minds? There's literally no usefull/practical stuff you can spend these dev hours??