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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2012-10-10 23:01:21 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Swidgen wrote:
You can't seriously be redesigning this without adding an indication of the target's capacitor level, can you? If you don't add that, this amounts to fluff nobody asked for. Again.

That's not info available to you at all (except by target scanner, maybe?) Why would it be included and openly available?

Exactly. It should be available since neuts and vamps are such an important part of combat. Logistics pilots would also appreciate a heads-up about who in their fleet is running out of cap. A logi pilot with a target locked (or on their watch list) can see who's taking damage even before that pilot broadcasts for reps. They should also have a visual indication of cap drain to make things consistent.
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2012-10-10 23:02:13 UTC
Prince aikka wrote:
Having an issue even being able to see the blog

Quote:
500 - Internal server error.
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.


same here


while im here and your working on UI


could you take a look at the scanning UI.... when i scan ships out(pvp targets) sometime the target boxes are so damn small and the line of the box is so small i at times have to spend up to 1 minute just to find where they are.

maby make then solid would help a lot

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#223 - 2012-10-10 23:02:47 UTC
Looks fantastic! Now hurry it up!!!!!1 :)

Comments:
Don't forget to redo the tactical overlay! The information it provides is pretty good, but the clarity is horrible. Colorize it! Higher contrast near the center, lower towards the outside, so overlapping features don't occlude each other. Also, fade the range indicator lines a bit for targets that you have not locked- they add a LOT of clutter. Also you can remove the targeting range sphere, since your new system will take care of that.

Circles give a nice clean futuristic look, but I'm going to agree with some others and say they are a bad idea. One of the reasons the 3 bars is so easy to read is that the human eye sees shape and movement in peripheral vision much better then color (number of rods+cones and all that). When the color of one of the 3 bars changes, it changes the shape we perceive from a nice, uninteresting square to a much more interesting shape. That makes it easy to see without directly focusing on it. A circle doesn't change shape nearly that much, and will be more confusing as a result. I'd try for Hex, or Pentagon shapes instead of circles. Or put the bars in a 3-sided box, or triangle around the center circle. Or something like that. Something so that the image is clearly altered when it changes.

Overhaul Dscan!
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#224 - 2012-10-10 23:02:49 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?



Don't feed the trolls!


Let me ask this, are you adding anything more to the tooltip in the future or what ideas do you have?

On the retribution art, it shows Criminal Flags and such on the targeting reticles, is that part of your plan as well? What other tid bits can we hope to see?


Here's a couple dream ideas ::

-- Draw a line between my ship and the enemy target (This already happens in Tactical Overview mode I believe), put "ticks" on the line that represent my various weapon ranges along that line. (So optimal will be green, falloff will be yellow, red will be out of range.

-- Show what EWAR affects are being applied to the target ship already (from friendlies or otherwise) - so I can see if he's being tracking disrupted so I know I can tracking disrupt other targets out there. I know this information is already sent to my client because the VISUAL effects from friendlies are projected to targets, so it's just a matter of showing me in a clear visual format that they're being applied.



Where I am.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#225 - 2012-10-10 23:02:51 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?


Don't listen to him, sure it could use some extra tweaking :D but this kind of change is exactly what we need... but what do you think about my suggestion to touch the brackets too? (thinner, with standing as colour instead, perhaps different shapes?)

http://i.imgur.com/Dk5Nu.jpg

kinda like this picture?

To be honest, I had a pretty hard time seeing the brackets... I would be scared that the colors would just blend in with the ships and you wouldn't see them that well.
And I'm afraid that it's a bit out of scope for us, at least for now... but interesting idea though Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#226 - 2012-10-10 23:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Bubanni wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?


Don't listen to him, sure it could use some extra tweaking :D but this kind of change is exactly what we need... but what do you think about my suggestion to touch the brackets too? (thinner, with standing as colour instead, perhaps different shapes?)

Space isnt always black. you have to deal with an obnoxious amount of nebula glow so specific colors arnt washed out in specific parts of space. Same with mission dust clouds. Two tone would be best, a dark and light color to work in both extremes.
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2012-10-10 23:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Sisyphus
Bloodpetal wrote:


Here's a couple dream ideas ::

-- Draw a line between my ship and the enemy target (This already happens in Tactical Overview mode I believe), put "ticks" on the line that represent my various weapon ranges along that line. (So optimal will be green, falloff will be yellow, red will be out of range.

-- Show what EWAR affects are being applied to the target ship already (from friendlies or otherwise) - so I can see if he's being tracking disrupted so I know I can tracking disrupt other targets out there. I know this information is already sent to my client because the VISUAL effects from friendlies are projected to targets, so it's just a matter of showing me in a clear visual format that they're being applied.


Some nice thoughts there!

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#228 - 2012-10-10 23:10:25 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?


Don't listen to him, sure it could use some extra tweaking :D but this kind of change is exactly what we need... but what do you think about my suggestion to touch the brackets too? (thinner, with standing as colour instead, perhaps different shapes?)

http://i.imgur.com/Dk5Nu.jpg

kinda like this picture?

To be honest, I had a pretty hard time seeing the brackets... I would be scared that the colors would just blend in with the ships and you wouldn't see them that well.
And I'm afraid that it's a bit out of scope for us, at least for now... but interesting idea though Smile


Could be a toggle able option in overview settings, just like the small icon setting? :) I am sure you understand my reasoning for wanting it,

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/kaar/warping.jpg using this as an example (quick google search) all I am suggesting is just moving the small red, orange, purple or blue square into the grey bracket if people want it

What I really want is to PvP and enjoy the awesome space and graphics at the same time :) instead of looking at these old brackets heh

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#229 - 2012-10-10 23:10:47 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Let me ask this, are you adding anything more to the tooltip in the future or what ideas do you have?

On the retribution art, it shows Criminal Flags and such on the targeting reticles, is that part of your plan as well? What other tid bits can we hope to see?


Yes, we've now added more info in the tooltips for about 20 other module groups Big smile

And yes, we will need to work with Team Five 0 on the Criminal flags and that stuff.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-10-10 23:11:11 UTC
How about no HP bars at all...
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2012-10-10 23:12:07 UTC
terrible
Before
you could easily see what the enemy ship has HP wise, weather they are in shield armor or structure
after
part of the circle is red, not sure if shield, or armor damage that was reped up by a scimitar.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#232 - 2012-10-10 23:12:09 UTC

I like the idea of standings in space being more integrated, but I like it the way it is also, so don't think there's a big deal to be made there.

Where I am.
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#233 - 2012-10-10 23:12:38 UTC
I like that there is an overhaul coming, but I'm not too keen on the new round targety bits. They don't match the rest of the UI (overview, window shape, NeoCom button shape) other than the module icons/status swirlie, and they look kind of generic, IMO.

Now, that sleek and shiny new overview from the FanFest UI vid...that I would like.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
Rengerel en Distel
#234 - 2012-10-10 23:13:35 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?


I think when people said the target icons are larger, and you dismissed it saying they're not that much larger that it shows the same kind of thing as with the module icon windows. We also complained those were too large, and you didn't think so, and all iteration on the feature has gone silent. Icons and window borders keep getting bigger with each new feature, without any way for the players to adjust it, because you guys know best.

Nearly every other MMO allows the players to customize the UI, because only the players know how they want it to look to themselves, but EVE says no, you're doing it wrong, and you have to do it the way we say to do it. That is the feeling I tend to get with the feedback on each feature. You'll tweak it as long as it works with what you wanted to do anyways, but if it's outside the scope of the work you want to do, then it's not going to happen.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Bill Banner
State War Academy
Caldari State
#235 - 2012-10-10 23:13:53 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
corestwo wrote:
So, uh...how do you tell what's shield/armor/structure with the circle then? Try coloring them, perhaps.


Yes, we're still tweaking that. When you see the damage being inflicted it is very obvious, but a common theme of all feedback has been 'which one is shield?'


How about concentric rings?
Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2012-10-10 23:14:48 UTC
usrevenge wrote:
... not sure if shield, or armor damage that was reped up by a scimitar.


Welp, we can see that you don't play the game. Might as well unsub and give me all your stuff. kthx
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#237 - 2012-10-10 23:15:55 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

Some nice thoughts there!


I would imagine some players would be concerned about falloff and optimal given to you by the UI, being the same as the game playing for you. One less thing to know and just follow the colors.
Although it is basic info, as long as you don't visually indicate that the moving target is moving too fast for your turrets via traversal.
And keep the extra flair for tac overview.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#238 - 2012-10-10 23:18:03 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
How about no HP bars at all...



was thinking this myself... why would you broadcast your hp to all enemy ships after all?

and also... always wondered why soo many FPS games show you your enemies health. yes its the future, yes you can say advanced systems read health status etc blah blah blah.. but surely it makes sense as advanced systems to gather information gets more advanced, so does systems to shield and obscure information retrieval.


i say revisit the notion of knowing soo much about your enemy... it will also reduce the amount of data flow to all users from the server and improve server performance in big fleet fights.

\o/
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#239 - 2012-10-10 23:19:41 UTC
Is it coincidence that Pony EXpress and Player EXperience start with the same letters?

Well played either way.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#240 - 2012-10-10 23:21:51 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
Let me ask this, are you adding anything more to the tooltip in the future or what ideas do you have?

On the retribution art, it shows Criminal Flags and such on the targeting reticles, is that part of your plan as well? What other tid bits can we hope to see?


Yes, we've now added more info in the tooltips for about 20 other module groups Big smile

And yes, we will need to work with Team Five 0 on the Criminal flags and that stuff.


Cool on the module tooltips! One thing I've noticed about module tooltips is it's hard to see what ammo i have loaded in there (if it's t2 or faction) because that top left edge of the ammo icon is cut off. Perhaps you can look into some ideas for that?

So what about in-space tooltips? I noticed the images you have aren't showing corporation tickers and player names on there

i.e. Bloodpetal -MMDRS- (Minmatar Frigate) @ 208 km (that's what my customized one looks like at least)

How about moving the range finder to somewhere a bit more cozy on the circle? with a vertical format next to the circle ::

i.e.
Bloodpetal
MMDRS - Alliance
Rifter
200km

Where I am.