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Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#401 - 2012-10-10 14:45:51 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
The first victim can't pay concord to know when, where and by who is going to be gank, so why should the ganker (being THE CRIMINAL) get help from the police to escape the consequence of his crime?


Never like to quote my self but this question was still not answered properly.

All high sec ganker/grieefers should just be happy as hell with this change. Neutral rep/jam/booster yadayada and still need CCP or Concord to put a blinky tag on the guy who got the kill rights so they can cowardly escape when it comes to shoot something that can shoot back?

This thread is simply hilarious.

brb

Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#402 - 2012-10-10 17:11:25 UTC
bumping cause i need a dev blog to read

I has all the eve inactivity

Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#403 - 2012-10-10 17:50:58 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile


Yes, actually. What exactly is the timeframe for its release? All this speculation has me conflicted.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Pipa Porto
#404 - 2012-10-10 18:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
The first victim can't pay concord to know when, where and by who is going to be gank, so why should the ganker (being THE CRIMINAL) get help from the police to escape the consequence of his crime?


Never like to quote my self but this question was still not answered properly.

All high sec ganker/grieefers should just be happy as hell with this change. Neutral rep/jam/booster yadayada and still need CCP or Concord to put a blinky tag on the guy who got the kill rights so they can cowardly escape when it comes to shoot something that can shoot back?

This thread is simply hilarious.


The victim doesn't need to pay anyone to learn who can legally shoot them. Nor do they need to pay anyone to learn who can illegally shoot them.

To learn when someone is likely to shoot them, all they need to do is press the d-scan button (due to the constraints involved in illegal HS aggression).


The consequence of crime in HS is that you lose your ship and your victim can shoot you in the future. How is being able to know who is legally allowed to shoot you escaping that consequence?


Name for me a current mechanic by which you unable to learn who is legally allowed to shoot you.

Why do the people clamoring for blind killright transfers require a game mechanically enforced element of surprise to be able to kill someone they can legally shoot (and who can't legally shoot them back first)(and who can't effectively bring friends to the party)?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Azrael Void
Void Enterprises
#405 - 2012-10-10 20:37:55 UTC
Not sure if this has been suggested, but what if you were only rewarded bounty based on the value of the item you destroyed? For instance, for every 2 isk worth of stuff you destroyed from the criminal you are rewarded with 1 isk from the bounty pool and the bounty pool is reduced by that amount?

So if the bounty is 1bil and you destroy a ship and modules worth 1bil fromt he criminal, you are rewarded with 500mil and the bounty is now 500mil.

Oh also, maybe a criminal cannot collect insurance anymore while he has a bounty on his head? Either that or the value of his insurance is subtracted from the amount you destroyed to give a total loss from the combat and then that number factors your reward for the kill.

To live, merely to exist, what sense is there in it? A fly also "lives".

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#406 - 2012-10-10 20:59:11 UTC
Azrael Void wrote:
Not sure if this has been suggested, but what if you were only rewarded bounty based on the value of the item you destroyed? For instance, for every 2 isk worth of stuff you destroyed from the criminal you are rewarded with 1 isk from the bounty pool and the bounty pool is reduced by that amount?
You did not read the OP at all. The first post or two in a thread ... is it too much to ask to read that much?
Azrael Void
Void Enterprises
#407 - 2012-10-10 21:37:03 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Azrael Void wrote:
Not sure if this has been suggested, but what if you were only rewarded bounty based on the value of the item you destroyed? For instance, for every 2 isk worth of stuff you destroyed from the criminal you are rewarded with 1 isk from the bounty pool and the bounty pool is reduced by that amount?
You did not read the OP at all. The first post or two in a thread ... is it too much to ask to read that much?


Well done forum warrior, you have proven yourself relevant!

Here's another example of a reply: "That's exactly what I suggested! Good to know other people think the same way :) "

Stay cheery chap :)

To live, merely to exist, what sense is there in it? A fly also "lives".

EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
#408 - 2012-10-10 21:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: EglantinFinfleur
Pipa Porto wrote:

Chess is one of the oldest games in the world. It's highly competitive.
Mancala is even older. Also competitive.
Go. Competitive.
Poker? Competitive.
Monopoly? Competitive.
Starcraft Multiplayer? Competitve.
The first games on the PLATO network (the first online multiplayer games)? Primarily competitive.

Virtually every widespread game ever has been competitive.
Claiming that all games are not meant to be competitive is absurd. If you want a non-competitive game, you are free to avail yourself of a number of other options, but that's not what EVE's about.

By the way, what do you do in EVE? Because I guarantee that you're competing with someone else by doing it (unless you only play on the Test server).

...Then you really have no idea what Sociopaths are.

Overall, wow. EVE is not the right game for you.

Give A Tale in the Desert a try. It sounds right up your alley as what you want from a game. It's a strictly cooperative MMO.
http://www.atitd.com/


You obviously have blatant issues if you believe that because there are winners and losers, players should do everything they can not to fall into the latter category, at the expense of their opponent's fun.

Traditional boardgames like Chess or Go are bound by extremely strict and very simple rules. It's absolutely impossible to cheese or borderline exploit in those. Gameplay prevents condoned griefing and pushing your opponent's buttons, something which is however the staple of all modern 'competitive' games, such as DOTA-likes, for example, the workings of which are byzantine (champions/items constantly balanced, engine flaws turned into gameplay) and the exact opposite of traditional boardgames, which are brilliantly simple and reward pure skill, not cheap shots.

Those traditional games are not 'competitive', in the way you envision this word, at all. To win, you don't have to "play to win". You just have to be better than your opponent, and focused. In modern online games, to win, having more pure skill doesn't cut it, you have to triple check every patch for new possibilities of cheese, or removal thereof. You must have the "play to win" mentality and be an annoyance.
If there's a bug that multiplies tenfold the damage of an item, you will use it non-stop until next patch because it's going to be so lolrandum to see people rage XDDD. While the majority of gamers won't, because it breaks immersion, and is plainly 'not fun'. You will call them 'scrubs' and mock them.

Winning has become more important than playing, for a minority of players that are into annoying people more than they are into playing make-believe and roleplaying pod pilots. They're not playing for ingame goals, they're using the game for and out-of-game one, reaping Schadenfreude.


It's okay to be competitive, in a broader sense than the one you delve upon. It's fun to 1v1 or have good clean fun with fleets of equal strength. You don't have to enter the 'play to win' mentality to be competitive. It's okay to just play make-believe. It's okay to respect your fellow gamer.


Online communities are actually socializing tools, and a good barometer to check where you're at. When all hell breaks loose IRL, where are you gonna stand? Will you gang up on people trying to mind their own business, because after all, it's only life, and they could have hid themselves better?
You will of course argue that IRL and online behavior have nothing in common, but guess what, ethics are context-irrelevant. Except if you completely roleplay, which is mighty fine, and something you ridicule.

And pray tell, what is sociopathy?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#409 - 2012-10-10 21:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Chess is one of the oldest games in the world. It's highly competitive.
Mancala is even older. Also competitive.
Go. Competitive.
Poker? Competitive.
Monopoly? Competitive.
Starcraft Multiplayer? Competitve.
The first games on the PLATO network (the first online multiplayer games)? Primarily competitive.

Virtually every widespread game ever has been competitive.
Claiming that all games are not meant to be competitive is absurd. If you want a non-competitive game, you are free to avail yourself of a number of other options, but that's not what EVE's about.

By the way, what do you do in EVE? Because I guarantee that you're competing with someone else by doing it (unless you only play on the Test server).

...Then you really have no idea what Sociopaths are.

Overall, wow. EVE is not the right game for you.

Give A Tale in the Desert a try. It sounds right up your alley as what you want from a game. It's a strictly cooperative MMO.
http://www.atitd.com/


You obviously have blatant issues if you believe that because there are winners and losers, players should do everything they can not to fall into the latter category, at the expense of their opponent's fun.

Traditional boardgames like Chess or Go are bound by extremely strict and very simple rules. It's absolutely impossible to cheese or borderline exploit in those. Gameplay prevents condoned griefing and pushing your opponent's buttons, something which is however the staple of all modern 'competitive' games, such as DOTA-likes, for example, the workings of which are byzantine (champions/items constantly balanced, engine flaws turned into gameplay) and the exact opposite of traditional boardgames, which are brilliantly simple and reward pure skill, not cheap shots.

Those traditional games are not 'competitive', in the way you envision this word, at all. To win, you don't have to "play to win". You just have to be better than your opponent, and focused. In modern online games, to win, having more pure skill doesn't cut it, you have to triple check every patch for new possibilities of cheese, or removal thereof. You must have the "play to win" mentality and be an annoyance.
If there's a bug that multiplies tenfold the damage of an item, you will use it non-stop until next patch because it's going to be so lolrandum to see people rage XDDD. While the majority of gamers won't, because it breaks immersion, and is plainly 'not fun'. You will call them 'scrubs' and mock them.

Winning has become more important than playing, for a minority of players that are into annoying people more than they are into playing make-believe and roleplaying pod pilots. They're not playing for ingame goals, they're using the game for and out-of-game one, reaping Schadenfreude.


It's okay to be competitive, in a broader sense than the one you delve upon. It's fun to 1v1 or have good clean fun with fleets of equal strength. You don't have to enter the 'play to win' mentality to be competitive. It's okay to just play make-believe. It's okay to respect your fellow gamer.


Online communities are actually socializing tools, and a good barometer to check where you're at. When all hell breaks loose IRL, where are you gonna stand? Will you gang up on people trying to mind their own business, because after all, it's only life, and they could have hid themselves better?
You will of course argue that IRL and online behavior have nothing in common, but guess what, ethics are context-irrelevant. Except if you completely roleplay, which is mighty fine, and something you ridicule.

And pray tell, what is sociopathy?

I just want to confirm that Eve Online is not actually a game, but was literally designed to be a personality test simulator set in the scenario "when all hell breaks loose." Roll

That is all.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Pipa Porto
#410 - 2012-10-11 05:42:40 UTC
EglantinFinfleur wrote:
You obviously have blatant issues if you believe that because there are winners and losers, players should do everything they can not to fall into the latter category, at the expense of their opponent's fun.

Traditional boardgames like Chess or Go are bound by extremely strict and very simple rules. It's absolutely impossible to cheese or borderline exploit in those. Gameplay prevents condoned griefing and pushing your opponent's buttons, something which is however the staple of all modern 'competitive' games, such as DOTA-likes, for example, the workings of which are byzantine (champions/items constantly balanced, engine flaws turned into gameplay) and the exact opposite of traditional boardgames, which are brilliantly simple and reward pure skill, not cheap shots.


So you're saying that when you play Risk you make a beeline for Europe and shoot all your opponants equally?

Quote:
Those traditional games are not 'competitive', in the way you envision this word, at all. To win, you don't have to "play to win". You just have to be better than your opponent, and focused.


What do you call the years of study it takes to become a strong chess player if not "playing to win?" What do you call inventing new tactics and keeping them secret until the crucial game if not "playing to win?"

Why did Go houses keep their opening and closing strategies a carefully guarded secret if they weren't "playing to win?"

Quote:
In modern online games, to win, having more pure skill doesn't cut it, you have to triple check every patch for new possibilities of cheese, or removal thereof. You must have the "play to win" mentality and be an annoyance.


Just like Chess and Go.

Quote:
If there's a bug that multiplies tenfold the damage of an item, you will use it non-stop until next patch because it's going to be so lolrandum to see people rage XDDD. While the majority of gamers won't, because it breaks immersion, and is plainly 'not fun'. You will call them 'scrubs' and mock them.

Winning has become more important than playing, for a minority of players that are into annoying people more than they are into playing make-believe and roleplaying pod pilots. They're not playing for ingame goals, they're using the game for and out-of-game one, reaping Schadenfreude.

It's okay to be competitive, in a broader sense than the one you delve upon. It's fun to 1v1 or have good clean fun with fleets of equal strength. You don't have to enter the 'play to win' mentality to be competitive. It's okay to just play make-believe. It's okay to respect your fellow gamer.


That's not competing. That's a game of tag football with your friends.

EvE is more like the NFL. Sure you could enter with a team prepared only to play tag football, but you'll be crushed and nobody will feel sorry for you.


Quote:
Online communities are actually socializing tools, and a good barometer to check where you're at. When all hell breaks loose IRL, where are you gonna stand? Will you gang up on people trying to mind their own business, because after all, it's only life, and they could have hid themselves better?
You will of course argue that IRL and online behavior have nothing in common, but guess what, ethics are context-irrelevant. Except if you completely roleplay, which is mighty fine, and something you ridicule.

And pray tell, what is sociopathy?


DSM-IV-TR, Anti-Social Personality Disorder, AKA Sociopathy.
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Because Suicide Ganking exists inside a Game, none of those criteria exist. There are maybe 2 criteria that you could stretch to fit, but you would look really silly as it would require you to assert that actions inside of a Game are morally equivalent to ones in real life.

Remember, EVE is an Opt-In environment. If you don't like the idea of people trying to win against you, don't opt in. By the way, what non-competitive activity do you do in EVE?

By the way, the 2 criteria you might be able to stretch would apply much more strongly to anyone who plays the game Diplomacy, a noted favorite of the Kennedy's and Henry Kissinger. If, y'know, in game actions had any valid moral comparison with real life ones.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#411 - 2012-10-11 06:47:11 UTC
I just hope it leads to more of the only thing I care about which of course is blown up ships. As a merchant of death I would love to sell more ships, ammo and modules to anyone with the proper amount of ISK.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#412 - 2012-10-11 09:25:19 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile


Yes, actually. What exactly is the timeframe for its release? All this speculation has me conflicted.


very VERY soon!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#413 - 2012-10-11 10:06:52 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile
Yes, actually. What exactly is the timeframe for its release? All this speculation has me conflicted.
very VERY soon!
Note the lack of "(tm)"!

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2012-10-11 10:27:48 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile
Yes, actually. What exactly is the timeframe for its release? All this speculation has me conflicted.
very VERY soon!
Note the lack of "(tm)"!


that means within this hour?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2012-10-11 10:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
I wonder on the conversion rates:


How many "soons" in a "while"?

How many "shakes of a lambs tail" to a "soon"?

What is the multiplication factor by adding the (™)?

We need a new dev blog to help determine and describe the CCP developer time measurement system I feel.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#416 - 2012-10-11 10:43:08 UTC
Bubanni wrote:

that means within this hour?


or never :D


EglantinFinfleur wrote:
And pray tell, what is sociopathy?


try looking here or here
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#417 - 2012-10-11 10:43:29 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
are you guys excited about the dev blog? Smile
Yes, actually. What exactly is the timeframe for its release? All this speculation has me conflicted.
very VERY soon!
Note the lack of "(tm)"!


that means within this hour?


think of the poor Americans who are probably still sleeping!!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#418 - 2012-10-11 10:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP Punkturis wrote:


think of the poor Americans who are probably still sleeping!!


yeah it's almost 4-7 in the morning in America :D those lazy bums should get up and read a dev blog earlier then if they are still sleeping

Also, at any given time there is a eve player asleep somewhere in the world :D we can't wait for all of them to be awake before releasing a dev blog <3 Roll

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#419 - 2012-10-11 10:57:37 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


think of the poor Americans who are probably still sleeping!!


yeah it's almost 4-7 in the morning in America :D those lazy bums should get up and read a dev blog earlier then if they are still sleeping

Also, at any given time there is a eve player asleep somewhere in the world :D we can't wait for all of them to be awake before releasing a dev blog <3 Roll


Also think about the places close to the poles, it can be night time for 23 hours a day in those places at certain points of the year.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#420 - 2012-10-11 11:09:19 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


think of the poor Americans who are probably still sleeping!!


yeah it's almost 4-7 in the morning in America :D those lazy bums should get up and read a dev blog earlier then if they are still sleeping

Also, at any given time there is a eve player asleep somewhere in the world :D we can't wait for all of them to be awake before releasing a dev blog <3 Roll


Also think about the places close to the poles, it can be night time for 23 hours a day in those places at certain points of the year.


I just really like Americans!

also, do you know where I'm from Inquisitor Kitchner? I'm pretty well aware of 23 hour darkness Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis